Let's discuss what's in the Health Care Bill

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Actually I think both of those claims are true. They will indeed be creating school health clinics and will be offering mental exams, and that was the gist of the two claims you quoted. The end comments about the kids not having a chance are false, but the claims themselves are true.

reply to post by Jenna


So it looks like he wasn't exaggerating when he said the commission will choose your benefits. It just wasn't in that section where he made that claim.

That is scary.

reply to post by Jenna


Actually now that you mention it I can completely see how that can happen. Kids start asking unreasonable questions, they will be deemed being "disruptive" and taken to the health care clinic in located in the school then your child is coming home saying they need to take their pills. Because you already gave parental consent for them to use the clinic. Then just make it mandatory for the parents to give consent or the child can't attend that school.

How absolutely evil.

PG 85 Line 7 Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your HealthCare! #AARP members – your Health care Will be rationed.

Page 85 Line 7 to Page 87 Line 2:

(c) SPECIFICATION OF BENEFIT LEVELS FOR PLANS.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—The Commissioner shall establish the following standards consistent with this subsection and title I:
(A) BASIC, ENHANCED, AND PREMIUM PLANS.—Standards for 3 levels of Exchange participating health benefits plans: basic, enhanced, and premium (in this division referred to as a ‘‘basic plan’’, ‘‘enhanced plan’’, and ‘‘premium plan’’, respectively).
(B) PREMIUM-PLUS PLAN BENEFITS.— Standards for additional benefits that may be offered, consistent with this subsection and subtitle C of title I, under a premium plan (such a plan with additional benefits referred to in this division as a ‘‘premium-plus plan’’).
(2) BASIC PLAN.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—A basic plan shall offer the essential benefits package required under title I for a qualified health benefits plan.
(B) TIERED COST-SHARING FOR AFFORDABLE CREDIT ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS.—In the case of an affordable credit eligible individual (as defined in section 242(a)(1)) enrolled in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan, the benefits under a basic plan are modified to provide for the reduced cost-sharing for the income tier applicable to the individual under section 244(c).
(3) ENHANCED PLAN.—A enhanced plan shall offer, in addition to the level of benefits under the basic plan, a lower level of cost-sharing as provided under title I consistent with section 123(b)(5)(A).
(4) PREMIUM PLAN.—A premium plan shall offer, in addition to the level of benefits under the basic plan, a lower level of cost-sharing as provided under title I consistent with section 123(b)(5)(B).
(5) PREMIUM-PLUS PLAN.—A premium-plus plan is a premium plan that also provides additional benefits, such as adult oral health and vision care, approved by the Commissioner. The portion of the premium that is attributable to such additional benefits shall be separately specified.

There are benefit levels, and higher levels will have more coverage than the lower levels. I wouldn't translate this directly into rationing though since presumably (hopefully) people can choose which plan they are on. So I'm calling this claim only half true.

EDIT: Fixed external tags... again...

[edit on 8-8-2009 by Jenna]

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife

So what I gather from this is that, if you get a medical implant they will keep data on the implant to determine how effective it is, etc.

The kicker is though is that they said the records will comply to privacy standards and what not, but this gives them the option for addiction tracking.

Step back for a second. Step back from the politics, step back from the fears of communism and partisan whatnot.

Does this provision serve an actual medical purpose?
Does this provision benefit the lives of the people covered by the plan?
Does this provision mirror current, established medical practice?

The answer is yes, yes and yes.

There is a benefit to tracking the failure rate of artificial hip joints and heart valves. And these things - like every other medical procedure - are currently tracked, regardless of your insurance provider, regardless of your doctor, regardless of the hospital.

There are a lot of things in the OP that strike me as more than a little bit of scaremongering. How exactly do nurse home visits relate to abortion? The people I've known in Japan and Canada who have received such visits have had them as an extension of post-op care. Thrice daily administration of drugs, monitoring of vitals, and educating family members on their condition. Two of them have been stroke victims, one was a heart bypass. None of those people were in the USA, but I'm sure if they had been, they would have received that kind of care under their private insurance.

In other words, it's a standard medical practice.

I really think a lot of Americans are shooting themselves in the foot with their opposition to this bill. The failure of this bill will benefit a relatively small number of people - and those people are playing all of you like a violin.

If I may break away from the research for a moment. One of the main arguements that I see within this bill and without, is the arguement that:

the insurance companies won't PAY for treatment they don't deem necessary.

Where as, with the government plan, they won't TREAT you if they don't deem it necessary.

With one, you get treatment and a bill.

With the other, you get a pill.

Just the trend I'm noticing.

I'll get back to work now. . .

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Nope, no exaggerating on that claim just off on his reference point. Makes me wonder exactly how "basic" the basic plan is going to be. I'm almost afraid to even ask.

reply to post by vox2442


No this does not follow regular medical practice. Current medical practice doesn't require a list of all medical implantable devices with serial numbers and who they are implanted in.

That information is confidential between you and your doctor and is on your medical records. The doctor is the one keeps up with that and just reports the success/failure about the device which does not require any identifiable information.

Then you have to read the other sections of the bill and the section that I listed with additional tracking, you could be flagged and in their "community wellness and prevention section" those people could come around asking how you are doing and the likes.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
the insurance companies won't PAY for treatment they don't deem necessary.

Where as, with the government plan, they won't TREAT you if they don't deem it necessary.

So, in both cases, you'd be looking at going to a private clinic and paying out of pocket for your new nose.

That's the thing, right? If the bill mandates that you must receive full coverage for everything upon request, well, then you're into sex changes and boob jobs and all kinds of elective surgery that isn't covered by your current insurance anyway.

Try to see both sides of this.

FINALLY someone came out with this thread, a discussion not an argument over this bill so we can all understand, because if i believe correctly this effects us all. i was watching Lyndon Larouche's august webcast and he is totally against obama's health care and cap and trade proposals, and says that it is basically the agenda of de-population. that his veiws align with nazi-ism. I've been watching quite a bit of his speeches and watched his video of the true american history and he seems like a very intelligent man that is trying to inform. i can't say everything he says is true, i just can't, but he does seem like know his sh*t about every aspect of history and he is saying a lot of things that other politicians aren't saying even Ron Paul.

---- Does anyone else have some insight into Lyndon Larouche and his info?

thankyou op for this thread i can see you, like other people don't want to argue about the BS and just want to figure out what it is they are trying to pass so quickly because it seems like everything else they have done in this manner have been of a negative outcome. thanks for reading!

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by vox2442

 

No this does not follow regular medical practice. Current medical practice doesn't require a list of all medical implantable devices with serial numbers and who they are implanted in.

That information is confidential between you and your doctor and is on your medical records. The doctor is the one keeps up with that and just reports the success/failure about the device which does not require any identifiable information.

Then you have to read the other sections of the bill and the section that I listed with additional tracking, you could be flagged and in their "community wellness and prevention section" those people could come around asking how you are doing and the likes.

Wouldn't that be in violation of current HIPPA laws?

reply to post by redhatty


well, you all voted fo rthis fool..


so, might long list you copied and pasted there. have you ever read any of it? just curious.

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by mikerussellus
the insurance companies won't PAY for treatment they don't deem necessary.

Where as, with the government plan, they won't TREAT you if they don't deem it necessary.

So, in both cases, you'd be looking at going to a private clinic and paying out of pocket for your new nose.

That's the thing, right? If the bill mandates that you must receive full coverage for everything upon request, well, then you're into sex changes and boob jobs and all kinds of elective surgery that isn't covered by your current insurance anyway.

Try to see both sides of this.

The difference though, is that YOU get to decide vs the government. It all comes down to who do you want to make the decisions? You? A family member? Or THE COMMISSIONER?

I do agree though, needless surgeries can create costs for all of us.

reply to post by CoffinFeeder



That's what we're doing now. Just making it an ATS group effort.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


I think you'll find that records are kept of who receives what implant, and when, and by what doctor, and where - not only in the USA today, but in any country not currently using leeches and buckets of hot tar in the operating room.

The reason is simple. If there's a problem identified with a specific implant batch, everyone who received them can be contacted and examined.

Claim:

PG 935 21-22 Government will identify specific goals & objectives for prevention & wellness activities. Control You!!

‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall submit to
12 the Congress within one year after the date of the enact
13 ment of this section, and at least every 2 years thereafter,
14 a national strategy that is designed to improve the Na
15 tion’s health through evidence-based clinical and commu
16 nity prevention and wellness activities (in this section re
17 ferred to as ‘prevention and wellness activities’), including
18 core public health infrastructure improvement activities.
‘‘(b) CONTENTS.—The strategy under subsection (a)
20 shall include each of the following:
21 ‘‘(1) Identification of specific national goals and
22 objectives in prevention and wellness activities that
23 take into account appropriate public health measures
24 and standards, including departmental measures and
1 standards (including Healthy People and National
2 Public Health Performance Standards).
3 ‘‘(2) Establishment of national priorities for
4 prevention and wellness, taking into account unmet
5 prevention and wellness needs.
6 ‘‘(3) Establishment of national priorities for re7
search on prevention and wellness, taking into ac
8 count unanswered research questions on prevention
9 and wellness.
10 ‘‘(4) Identification of health disparities in pre
11 vention and wellness.
12 ‘‘(5) A plan for addressing and implementing
13 paragraphs (1) through (4).
14 ‘‘(c) CONSULTATION.—In developing or revising the
15 strategy under subsection (a), the Secretary shall consult
16 with the following:
17 ‘‘(1) The heads of appropriate health agencies
18 and offices in the Department, including the Office
19 of the Surgeon General of the Public Health Service,
20 the Office of Minority Health, and the Office on
21 Women’s Health.
22 ‘‘(2) As appropriate, the heads of other Federal
23 departments and agencies whose programs have a
24 significant impact upon health (as determined by the
25 Secretary).
1 ‘‘(3) As appropriate, nonprofit and for-profit
2 entities.
3 ‘‘(4) The Association of State and Territorial
4 Health Officials and the National Association of
5 County and City Health Officials.

Nothing false about this claim. Looks ACORN could be included into making sure these "goals" are also being met.

reply to post by mikerussellus


It says that it will be within HIPPA law statutes, but it looks like it will give them authority to override them if need be.

reply to post by vox2442


Did you read it by any chance?

What part of putting all implant devices with serial numbers and patients name in a National database where it could be accessed don't you get?

Currently they are only listed in your medical records not a NATIONAL DATABASE.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Doesn't that make HIPPA laws moot? I mean, the whole reason for HIPPA was to protect against invasion of privacy due to the emergence of electronic record keeping.

PG 89 Line 6-10 The FAR is not applicable. Government can write contracts any way they want.

From Page 89:

(3) FAR NOT APPLICABLE.—The provisions of the Federal Acquisition Regulation shall not apply to contracts between the Commissioner and QHBP offering entities for the offering of Exchange-participating health benefits plans under this title.

This one is clearly true since "FAR not applicable" is the title of this item. For anyone who isn't clear on what FAR stands for:

FAR Wiki article
The Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) is the principal set of rules in the Federal Acquisition Regulation System. This system consists of sets of regulations issued by agencies of the Federal government of the United States to govern what is called the "acquisition process," which is the process through which the government purchases ("acquires") goods and services. That process consists of three phases: (1) need recognition and acquisition planning, (2) contract formation, and (3) contract administration. The FAR System regulates the activities of government personnel in carrying out that process. It does not regulate the purchasing activities of private sector firms, except to the extent that parts of it are incorporated into government solicitations and contracts by reference.