Simon Peter and Apostolic Succession

The Catholics admit to changing the Christian Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday -

What else might they have changed?

That one is pretty important.



info

Do you even understand what the Holy Trinity is?

If you believe in just Jesus Christ, what about the Holy Ghost, and God the Father?

The Catholic Church believes in the Holy Trinity - God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Ghost. They are all one and the same, and interchangeable. It is one of the sacred mysteries of the Catholic Church. Three in one.

St. Patrick explained the trinity as a 3 leaf clover - 3 leaves, 1 clover. Same concept.

So, before you continue your insults stating:

"The Catholic Church doesn't even know who God is. They worship the Holy Trinity. Which is foolish."

....then you might want to retract your statement. Because it is quite clear, based on your later posts, that you do believe in both Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Ghost - which would make you a believer in the Holy Trinity.

You tell me. Which is it? Just Jesus? Just God the Father? Just the Holy Ghost? Or all three? If you believe in all 3, then you believe in the Holy Trinity and should retract your statement.

As far as hate speech is concerned, keep laughing. If the insults you have leveled against the Catholic Church here aren't considered hate speech, then you have an awfully twisted definition of hate speech.



[edit on 10-8-2009 by CookieMonster09]

reply to post by CookieMonster09


But the Catholics also kneel down to kiss the hands of a man acting like he is their savior - the pope.

That alone, to me, is not right - IF you believe in God and Jesus.

Christians love Billy Graham but we don't hold motorcades and go rushing up to him, in tears, to kiss his hand.

The pope should not be "worshiped".

Jesus is God. Father, Son, Holy Ghost are titles. I am a son, a brother, an uncle. I only have one name, one being.

The Catholics admit to changing the Christian Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday - What else might they have changed?

Well, there was a little known Savior named Jesus Christ that is commemorated by most Catholics and Christians on Sunday. Ever hear of Him? Sunday is commemoration of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, the founder of the Catholic Church.

After the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, Saturday observance continued and was a time of communal gathering for early Christians, both Jew and Gentile (Acts 15:21). This situation continued for some time.

At the same time, worship on the first day of the week, or Sunday (also called the Lord's Day) appeared very early in the Christian Church (perhaps Acts 20:7 or Ignatius' Epistle to the Magnesians 9.1[9])

Today, the Catholic Church continues to celebrate the Sunday Sabbath, and many of the various Protestant denominations consider it an ordinance instituted by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles for the celebration of the day of the Lord's resurrection.

Today, Catholic doctrine, and Protestant practice in general, maintains that Sunday observance was instituted by the authority of the Holy Spirit acting in the Church, and is attested in Scripture rather than commanded.

So.... Go ahead and blame the Holy Spirit and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ for the change from Saturday to Sunday as the Sabbath.

But the Catholics also kneel down to kiss the hands of a man acting like he is their savior - the pope....The pope should not be "worshiped".

First, to an American, it might seem strange that the cardinals kiss the ring of the Pope. It is not an act of worship - It is simply a formal greeting and sign of respect and humility.

Secondly, the Pope is never, ever worshiped in the Catholic Church. Ever.

We pray and worship to the Holy Trinity - God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The Pope is a leader of the Church - not a god in and of himself.

You will never find any writing anywhere in the Catholic Church advocating the worship of the Pope. That is a complete mis-characterization of his role and function as the leader of the Catholic Church. He is not a god.

Jesus is God. Father, Son, Holy Ghost are titles. I am a son, a brother, an uncle. I only have one name, one being.

Three in one. You believe in the Holy Trinity, pal - Just like the Catholic Church which you defamed. Thanks for at least admitting it.

The catholic church is the one who made/makes the admission of changing the Sabbath - their reason was 'convenience'.

So that pretty much sums up who is to blame.

Rumor has it that the next pope will be the ......... well, I'm sure you've heard the rumors.

The catholic church is the one who made/makes the admission of changing the Sabbath - their reason was 'convenience'.

No. There are legitimate historical and religious reasons for the change, as I noted above. It was hardly a matter of convenience. Christ was resurrected - That's much more of a reason than "convenience".

Before it's thought or said - I'm not bashing the catholic worshipers - I blame the ROMAN catholic church for changing God's laws.

And if biblical prophecy holds true, it appears that this very 'church/power' will play a big part in the end days.

Just saying.

reply to post by CookieMonster09




here

"They aren't really celebrating the Sabbath, which has always been on Saturday. What they are celebrating on Sunday is the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, which has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was originally just a day of rest. It became convenient to hold religious services on that day, since no one was busy. This is how the word "Sabbath" began to be associated with the day of worship. It is somewhat common for Catholics (and most other Christians) use the word "Sabbath" for Sunday, but it's not really correct. "

Sorry but if a bird sings a confession, it's generally believed that he must be playing the truth.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


The resurrection has nothing to do with the Sabbath and honoring it.

The catholics are using Sunday as both worship day and resurrection honor day.

God wrote in the Ten Commandments to keep the Sabbath holy. That day was Saturday.

The ROMAN catholic church decided to change the Bible into a lie by changing God's original Sabbath.

catholics can worship/honor on Sunday all the want, but that is still not adhering to God's law that HIS SABBATH be honored.

Before it's thought or said - I'm not bashing the catholic worshipers - I blame the ROMAN catholic church for changing God's laws. And if biblical prophecy holds true, it appears that this very 'church/power' will play a big part in the end days.

The Roman Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. They did not "change" God's laws.

Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Law. He brought a New Covenant.

The Old Law - as described in the Old Testament - was replaced by the New Covenant, as given in the New Testament. The Old Law was replaced by the New Covenant - This according to Christianity (not Judaism).

"They aren't really celebrating the Sabbath, which has always been on Saturday. What they are celebrating on Sunday is the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, which has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

It has everything to do with the Sabbath. Jesus created a New Covenant to replace the Old Law.

The Jews had hundreds of laws - and still do - down to what you can eat (kosher), and to every micro-managed aspect of one's life. So complicated, and so strict, that most Jews could hardly keep up with all of the requirements.

Jesus - and later through St. Paul - amended many of these strict requirements for very specific reasons. First, because these arcane rules violated the "spirit" of God's Law, and secondly, because people were so caught up in following rules and regulations that they missed the whole point of the matter - which is to honor and serve God, and to follow the Golden Rule. They were too busy trying to figure out what food could be eaten, what to wear, what prayers had to be said, what could be sacrificed and what couldn't - and on and on and on.

The ROMAN catholic church decided to change the Bible into a lie by changing God's original Sabbath.

See above. You're missing the whole point of Christianity. Christ replaced the Jewish Law. He is the embodiment of the Law - God's only Son.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


Jesus never founded the Roman Catholic Church they came hundreds of years after his death and jumbled pagan dates in with their own version of Christianity.

Where in the bible does it refer to prayer beads?
Even Xmas is disputed as the farmers dont have their sheep out in December in biblical times.

You think Jesus would approve of a church that has murdered millions, abused millions, aided the Nazis etc i don't think so.

Cookie is absolutely correct in everything Cookie has written here. If you are having trouble understanding what Cookie is trying to say, please, please, please read the Catechism and each and every one of the points you have mentioned will be answered and if you still disagree come back. Every belief, precept, rite and tradition of the Holy Catholic Church is described and cited with biblical references.

Thank you Cookie for taking the time to take a stand for the church.

orangemandave said:
Jesus never founded the Roman Catholic Church they came hundreds of years after his death and jumbled pagan dates in with their own version of Christianity.

I am afraid that you need to take a closer look at the early years of the Church. Jesus Christ most definitely founded the Roman Catholic Church when he appointed Peter as his successor, and leader of the Church at the beginning of Christianity. St. Paul and many other saints were instrumental in spreading Christianity throughout various countries thereafter.

The Holy Roman Catholic Church certainly took many, many decades - even centuries - to arrive at its organizational structure. Naturally, the Church in the beginning was quite small compared to today.

But Jesus Christ was most definitely the founder. That's why they call it "Christianity", and not some other name.

As far as paganism is concerned, you are correct to a certain degree. I would argue, however, that Catholicism has a LOT more in common with Judaism than it does with paganism.

As Christianity gained more and more popularity - due in part to its charitable acts to the poor - it overtook paganism as the main religion in Rome. As a result, a small number of pagan practices - completely unrelated to the heart of Christianity itself - were adopted. Just because Christianity adopted some of the practices of the pagans - however minor and trivial they may be - does not negate the religion in and of itself.

Religions borrow from other religions all the time. Cultures borrow from other cultures all the time. This is the natural order of things as religions and cultures interact and meld together.

If anything, Catholicism has most in common not with paganism, but with Judaism. In fact, a large number of Catholic prayers have a direct, even literal meaning, from Jewish prayers. Even the sacrifice of the Mass, and the altar in a Catholic Church, have a relationship to sacrifices as offered in the Old Testament.

Where in the bible does it refer to prayer beads?

What is wrong with praying the Rosary? Do tell. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen." What is wrong with asking for the Mother of God to pray for us and our sinful ways, now and before we die? I am really curious about what you would challenge about asking for prayers for our sinful ways. (What kind of angry, malevolent person would object to this practice?)

The Rosary is hundreds of years old in the Catholic religion. It originated from St. Dominic, and even some of the laity that - instead of praying the Divine Office as monks did - would pray 150 "Our Father" prayers on a string of beads.

The Rosary is a religious practice that has been practiced in many other religions that pre-date Christianity, including Buddhism. Using prayer beads to pray is a very ancient practice.

As far as the Bible not mentioning "prayer beads", I would remind you that the Bible doesn't mention a lot of modern day sins either - such as abortion, pornography, etc. That doesn't make it any less sinful. It just means that in these cases of modernity, Biblical principles would guide a Christian or Jew's perspective on these matters regarding sin.

Likewise, the Bible - in many, many places - does advocate that we pray to God. That is a core principle that runs throughout the Bible. This is true throughout the Old and New Testament.

If the Rosary is anything, it is prayer - a principle well-advocated for in the Bible through and through.

You think Jesus would approve of a church that has murdered millions, abused millions, aided the Nazis etc i don't think so.

If you can name a single religion on planet Earth that isn't guilty of human errors, then I would be glad to hear of it.

The Church of today never aided the Nazis. If you have legitimate proof to support your claim, I would appreciate some solid, academic references proving your allegations. And please, don't quote a conspiracy theorist.

Regardless, the Church today is actively engaged in ministering to the poor throughout the world - including many Third World countries. The Church was publicly against the Iraq war. It is the only religion I know of that fights against the murderous abortion industry. It stands up for the lowly, operates soup kitchens for the poor, educates students through their schools and universities, etc. It is a very benevolent institution.

As far as "murdering millions", you must be referring to the Crusades. Give me a break. At that time in history, you could make the same claim about murdering millions against radical Islam - which even today is rampantly more murderous than any other religion I can think of. Christianity is tame compared to radical Islam.

As far as "child abuse", you can make the same allegations statistically for any other institution that has interaction with children - including other religious authorities, school teachers, nursery schools, etc.

The Catholic Church has instituted rigorous background checks for any employee of the Church that might have any contact with the poor or children. It has been a problem, but no more so than in any other religious institution, and the Church has taken assertive steps to correct the problem in recent years. Statistically, the number of priests that have abused children has been less than 1% of all priests.

Funny how you turn your eye towards the negative - which is minimal - and completely ignore all the positives that the Church brings to the world - which is quite great.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Jesus is God. Father, Son, Holy Ghost are titles. I am a son, a brother, an uncle. I only have one name, one being.

Three in one. You believe in the Holy Trinity, pal - Just like the Catholic Church which you defamed. Thanks for at least admitting it.

Do not tell me what I believe. Because you do not even know what you believe. Trinity means three. You believe God is three persons. You believe God is three "interchangeables."

I believe that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are TITLES. That JESUS IS GOD. That those titles are ONE.

Those who believe in the 'Holy Trinity' pray to God, or Father as they only think, for some things. And they pray to Jesus, who they believe is only the Son, for some things. And they do not even believe in the power of the Holy Ghost. And I would be willing to bet you have never spoken in tongues, which is evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

I believe that God's name is Jesus. I believe that the Holy Trinity is a tool of the devil to keep people from the truth of God.

If I was you I would pray to the Lord to give you revelation of the ONEness of God. Because you do not get into Heaven by coming close.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter did not baptize people simply by saying, "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" like the catholic church does. He baptized as Jesus told him to, "In the name of Jesus Christ." And they received the gift of the presence of God.


Jesus spoke in parables in His time in the flesh. That is why there are so many mysterys in the Bible, because God does not just give things away. People take things for granted when they are handed to them. We were created to serve (which is original text is interchangeable with worship) Him willingly.

Revelations talks about the end times and about the false prophet coming out of what seems to be Rome. And wouldn't'cha know that that nazi youth pope is promoting a one world religion, saying we all worship the same God in different ways and we all get to go to Heaven. Well, he is right on the part about the same God, because there is only one God. And whoever the devil convinced people it was, there is only ONE. But He only has one name and that is Jesus Christ. And there is only one path to Heaven. To believe on His name and be baptized in His NAME, not titles.

reply to post by orangeman dave


Hello, My name is Orangeman Dave. I am bored tonight so I will set about disproving the largest religion in the world...watch me embarass myself by telling one BILLION people who wrong they are.

reply to post by orangeman dave


Hello, My name is Orangeman Dave. I am bored tonight so I will set about disproving the largest religion in the world...watch me embarass myself by telling one BILLION people who wrong they are.

And they do not even believe in the power of the Holy Ghost.

Catholics don't believe in the Holy Ghost? Huh? Since when?

Do not tell me what I believe. Because you do not even know what you believe. Trinity means three. You believe God is three persons. You believe God is three "interchangeables." I believe that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are TITLES. That JESUS IS GOD. That those titles are ONE.

That's a pretty accurate description of the Holy Trinity - 3 in 1. You can say that you don't believe in the Holy Trinity, then you proceed to say that you believe in God, Son, and Holy Ghost. You can't have it both ways. They are one and the same - as you say. That's exactly what the Holy Trinity means.

And, yes, I do know what I believe. It's quite clear you are the one that is confused - Just look at your contradictory posts.

I believe that the Holy Trinity is a tool of the devil to keep people from the truth of God.

Well, have fun explaining that to God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit on your judgment day. I am sure they will be quite amused.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Dude, you just quoted the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. That's the Holy Trinity! Sheesh.

Revelations talks about the end times and about the false prophet coming out of what seems to be Rome. And wouldn't'cha know that that nazi youth pope is promoting a one world religion, saying we all worship the same God in different ways and we all get to go to Heaven.

First, there is no evidence or proof that a "false prophet comes out of what seems to be Rome". If you are claiming to be able to interpret the Book of Revelations now, I sure would love to hear your credentials on the subject.

Secondly, the Pope was not a Nazi. He actually was forced to become a member of the Nazi Youth at the age of 14, and he later defected from the German Army when he was drafted.

Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted in the Hitler Youth, as membership was required for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939, but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings.

His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith, according to biographer John L. Allen, Jr.

In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime to a care center and killed there in secrecy during the Aktion T4 euthanasia campaign of Nazi eugenics.

In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted at age 16 into the German anti-aircraft corps. Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry, but a subsequent illness precluded him from the usual rigours of military duty. As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household.

As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp, but was released a few months later at the end of the war in the summer of 1945. He reentered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year.

Pope Benedict is the furthest from being associated with being called a Nazi - He was conscripted into the Hitler Youth, and even deserted the German military when he was drafted.

What a gross, disturbing insult to the Pope. You really are quite sick to be defaming the Pope by calling him a Nazi.