Even infidels are turning to sharia law

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Even infidels are turning to sharia law
As more and more non-Muslim Britons seek Islamic justice, Edna Fernandes asks how it will change our society

Dressed in immaculate white kurta pyjamas and with fingers interlaced, Sheikh Faiz Siddiqui leant back in his white leather chair as he listened.

Before him were two warring businessmen: a Muslim of Asian origins and his white non-Muslim partner, who had come to seek judgment on a dispute. This proved to be a run-of-the-mill squabble over whether the non-Muslim had been cheated out of the profits of their jointly owned car-fleet company by the Muslim.

What made the case out of the ordinary is that it was the the non-Muslim who had chosen to take his grievance to a religious tribunal run by imams according to the laws of sharia — an ancient Islamic code of conduct that dates back to the time of the prophet Muhammad in the 7th century.

As the story of the business unfolded, the sheikh — one of two judges presiding that day — began to suspect the Muslim businessman was not being entirely honest in his evidence. So what happened next, I asked, when I met Siddiqui at his opulent offices in Warwickshire.

“I reminded him of his vows to God,” he said. “I told him, ‘You can lie and you can cheat this other man. But realise this: one day, you will face the Day of Judgment and on that day you will face Allah himself and be punished’

The sheikh’s words apparently had a profound effect. The Muslim businessman promptly changed his story, admitting he had cheated, and his non-Muslim partner was awarded £48,000 in compensation by the two Muslim judges.

“Sharia,” the 41-year-old sheikh explained to me, “is the law of Allah. So, yes, I invoke God in a legal setting. It creates a moral compulsion to tell the truth.”

This case was just one of several hundred that have been ruled on by the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal (Mat) since it was set up two years ago to operate as a civil sharia court. Since its formation, 5% of the cases have involved a non-Muslim.

Siddiqui is a Pakistani-born barrister and the founder and chairman of Mat’s governing council. He organises the funding of the service and costs are recouped through charges to those who use it — ranging from £150 to £2,500, depending on the nature of the case and its duration. Each hearing has two judges: one a mufti who is a learned imam with training in Islamic law; the other a Muslim lawyer or judge trained in UK law. None of the 67 judges is paid a fee. And, according to the sheikh, none of the money needed to run the tribunals comes from abroad.

His judges are not the only ones dispensing justice in British sharia courts: a recent report by Civitas, the think tank, estimated that there are about 85 sharia tribunals — including many that deal with divorce — operating in the UK. Some of these are less formal affairs in which individual imams make rulings in their mosques.

All of them are increasingly busy as more and more people bypass the traditional courts to seek religious rulings that are just as binding under British law.

This is because the 1996 Arbitration Act allows sharia courts to rule over civil cases where both parties agree in advance that they will accept the judgment. In fact, a judgment can be challenged in the conventional courts only if it can be proved that the rules of the act were not followed in the course of delivering a fair hearing.

What, I wondered, if two non-Muslims wanted a sharia judgment — would Siddiqui take their case?

“We’re happy to extend our services and dispense sharia justice in cases which are entirely non- Muslim,” he told me firmly last week. “We want to serve Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus and even people of no faith at all.”

Even if a non-Muslim case hinged on a religious matter, he said, a “special expert religious witness” from another faith — such as Christianity — would be allowed to give evidence to the Muslim judges.

But why would two non-Muslims want to take their case to a sharia court? Money and speed: according to the sheikh, sharia is cheaper and quicker than the UK civil system, costing an average of £500 and taking less than two months to settle.

However, he thinks there are deeper reasons why more nonMuslims may decide to opt for sharia justice. “Sixty per cent of British common law has a basis in Islamic law,” he said.

“Laws don’t change: in essence, sharia law is just as relevant now as it was 1,400 years ago.”

While criminal matters may be beyond the remit of the UK’s sharia courts, sharia’s rulings on appropriate punishments for certain crimes are unlikely to coincide with our own. For example, anyone who subscribes to the full gamut of sharia is likely to support barbaric punishments, such as the beheadings, amputations and stonings that take place in Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia for “crimes” that, in many cases, might merit a lenient or no sentence at all in this country.

Even in civil matters, sharia’s values are vastly different from ours. It does not recognise equality for women or homosexuals. Under the sternest of laws upheld in sharia states there are punishments such as stoning to death for adultery, which is a type of honour killing. Some of these things now appear to be happening on our doorstep. Only last week a man was stabbed in east London and forced to swallow sulphuric acid after being accused of having an affair with a married Muslim woman.

The sheikh, however, does not accept that our values are too different. He countered smoothly: “We do believe in equal rights for women. One of the things we do is work with the community on the issues of forced marriages. Some of our imams are female because they have the talent and temperament to do the job.

“On gay rights, this is not a legal issue — it is a political issue. Lesbianism, sodomisation is not natural. It is not right. It is immoral.

“When people talk of husband and husband, I’m sorry: I laugh. But if a gay person comes to my tribunal, will I discriminate? No, I will not. I will deliver justice.”

He criticised the British media for its obsession with beheadings and other extreme punishments. “They constitute only 10% of sharia.”

The man who is now a key player in British sharia runs his wide empire from a grand, red-brick mansion in the heart of the Warwickshire countryside, just outside Nuneaton. Its buildings include his offices, a religious school and a marble-lined mausole

[edit on 6-8-2009 by orangeman dave]

oleum that houses the body of his father, a religious leader of Sunni Muslims who held the position of the “blessed seat” until his death in 1994.

This title, which apparently dates back to Muhammad, then passed to Siddiqui. He stopped practising commercial law, bought the Warwickshire estate for just over £500,000 and set up Mat, as well as a sharia-compliant insurance company.

Now 41, Siddiqui speaks with a cut-glass English accent and has all the poise and control of a practised barrister. Yet the women who work alongside him all wear the full burqa and he is clearly dedicated to the expansion of sharia courts in Britain.

Taken to its logical extreme, critics fear this could lead to the fragmentation of the British legal system. But Siddiqui claims that Mat has no desire to make sharia rulings in criminal cases because Britain is not an Islamic country.

“Sharia reflects the mind of God,” he pointed out. “How can you apply this in a godless society [like Britain]? In a true Islamic society, there is equality of wealth, development of the individual. If someone breaks a rule of such a perfect society, they must be punished.

“Britain is a not a perfect society. In British society, where do we learn honesty? Nowhere. Schools don’t teach it, parents are too busy working. Sharia can teach Britons the high moral ground, human values like honesty, transparency, loyalty, ‘my word is my bond’, responsibility.” Furthermore, he added, it is the fragmentation of British society that has led to a rise in crime.

His views are likely to infuriate leaders from other faiths and secular groups, who will see his ambition to attract more non-Muslims to his courts as further evidence of sharia’s infiltration of the British system.

Andrew Copson, director of public affairs at the British Humanist Association, said: “[Encouraging non-Muslims to go to sharia courts] is an unwelcome move. It is a political move designed to advance sharia’s sphere of influence and it is not acceptable.”

Paul Troop, a human rights and civil liberties barrister at Tooks Chambers in central London, warned that under existing British law nothing prevents non-Muslims from submitting themselves to sharia judgments.

“Provided it is arbitration and both parties agree to submit to sharia principles, I’m not sure there would be a human rights problem,” he added. “But, politically, some people in Britain may have concerns about issues being settled under a value system they do not share.”

The true meaning of sharia is “source of water in the desert” — meaning the source of all spiritual life. But sharia goes beyond the mere laws of the land; it is a way of life that dates back to the 7th century and is fundamentally at odds with modern British values.

Are civil sharia courts a good thing? They may have their place — but they clearly represent more than just a cheap and quick arbitration system. They could influence the nature of British society itself. Sharia is here to stay, its influence is growing and little is being done to prevent it becoming a powerful part of our system of justice.

Originally posted by orangeman dave
www.timesonline.co.uk...

He criticised the British media for its obsession with beheadings and other extreme punishments. “They constitute only 10% of sharia.”

Only 10%. That is 10% too many. And even at 10% it makes the whole practice of Sharia law barbaric. If you want to take your problems to a Sharia law court, just go to a country governed by Sharia law so they can cut your head, hands or feet off.


EDIT: If Sharia law takes over it wont stay civil for very long and I like my head where it is. I'll probably pack up and leave this country before long.

[edit on 6/8/2009 by System]

ill keep it short and sweet..

dumbest thing i have ever read on ATS EVER....

,.. ok for get being short n sweet..

Reading tripe like this is why we have the BNP and other retards running about sreaming rubbish. Im not a muslim i have no fear of them or anyone for that matter, when the media or any other big massive fat on proffits crappy company tries to brain wash me into thinking they are out to get me.. do you know who is out to get you? the very people who said it..

I had this same argument with some one els in a another thread about sharia law being law in the uk when its not..,,

Its a "faith based law" its not in statute in England Wales Scotland or Northen Ireland..

FACT

so be for you read garbage i suggest you look up "arbitration" and the laws that govern the united kingdom.

its basic racist fear mongering by the right because they have nothing better to do than keep you eye off the ball

remember the bank bail out?

remember being blow up by the IRA?

people have very very very short memories

just like the CIA..

pathetic, sometimes when i read things on here its like fox news on steroids.

more so the lack of education and understanding of the given subject.. and lets not for get the world was flat

do you know why it was flat? the person who said it was looking at his feet.. i suggest you look up my friend.

have a good day and i look forward to contributing to this thread more as it grows..

www.double-digital.com...

[edit on 6-8-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

reply to post by orangeman dave

“Sharia reflects the mind of God,” he pointed out. “How can you apply this in a godless society [like Britain]?

godless? im sorry we have a Queen.. and we have the church of England, no offence but the very facts in your thread are bollox

Do you know that prince charly our next king unless one of his sons takes over is the defender of the FAITH(s) do you know they changed it from FAITH to S?

because NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.... thats right comes as shock!! oh my god we are all inferdels.. Just by the way you talk you are talking to me like I AM an inferdel

EVEN in the topic would suggest you are SAYING omg im muslim or some rubbish then you follow it up with some crack pot facts you have no clue about.

I am from England and only people with a lack of information or at least did not take the time to read law would say such rubbish you have.

If you want to brain wash people to become muslim or even try to say its good then fine.. but do not do it here...

total nonsence you have spoke... you should be banned for such

Originally posted by System

Originally posted by orangeman dave
www.timesonline.co.uk...

He criticised the British media for its obsession with beheadings and other extreme punishments. “They constitute only 10% of sharia.”

Only 10%. That is 10% too many. And even at 10% it makes the whole practice of Sharia law barbaric. If you want to take your problems to a Sharia law court, just go to a country governed by Sharia law so they can cut your head, hands or feet off.

and you wonder why there are atheists...these religious people have way, way too much power and influence... i think there should be alot more restrictions on religions and religious people with what they can and cannot do, as it pertains to influencing the general society and the man-made laws that most industrialized nations now live under.

i think everyone should realize that along with scientific advancements of humans, there has been advancements in societal living of humans. religions are stuck with dictates and rules propagated 1500 to 2500 years ago.

for me, there is only one rule i try and follow, and it requires no church,
no hiearchy of religious leaders, no book of rules, no payment of monies, no harm, no creation of fear and retribution.....it is..."do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ....simple ...to the point...and no explanation, because it can be understood by all of the races on this planet.

reply to post by jimmyx

and you wonder why there are atheists...these religious people have way, way too much power and influence... i think there should be alot more restrictions on religions and religious people with what they can and cannot do, as it pertains to influencing the general society and the man-made laws that most industrialized nations now live under.

in one word Fanatic0-

and i fully agree

the problem is... GOD

and nutters who want to f up the world because they BELIVE in something and are willing to KILL for it

Let me tell you a story..

The other day i spoke to a girl i use to go to school with.. I did not speak to this girl for at least 10 years, i found out she wanted or "is" Muslim, Do you know i sat there and she called me the devil ? and still smiled? she was not sure and she evens spoke Arabic to me, but i was shocked why?

she WANTED to stone people because of what wanted to believe !!!

How can you tell a person they are wrong? after 10 years? am i there to change our mind? did her god put me there?

its bull sh`t why?

because she told me her self..... its just wanting

WHAT do humans want? to be loved? to find the answer to the biggest question ever?? WHY ARE WE HERE??!?!

we are here is the point... GET ON WITH IT and stop being so selfish and ungrateful you are even able to ask the questions you do..

pitiful...

no wonder our world sucks.... we act like kids who need a telling off by daddy

lol sad very very sad

Originally posted by jimmyx
[...these religious people have way, way too much power and influence... i think there should be alot more restrictions on religions and religious people

I agree with what you're saying but how do you put restrictions on organisations with that much power? They've gotten so big and powerful that we can't really do anything.

.....it is..."do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ....simple ...to the point...and no explanation, because it can be understood by all of the races on this planet.

Doesn't that basically translate as "Be nice". I don't need a book to tell me that.

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


It's no my facts its a link that we i picked up on if you think its crap contact the link provided and tell them.

I am a Christian and don't believe in Sharia law this is why i posted this thread as i find it disturbing and not so long ago i read that Rowan Williams and others were saying for this law to be implemented.

reply to post by orangeman dave


lol...

Well as a well informed Drone of the UK government i can assure you that No sharia law has EVER been passed in the house of commons and put on the statute book

art of war, I suggest you read it, when you need to control the masses to be collectively retarded, one must have a "enemy" of some kind.

This time its Muslims, Islam, and some bloke called bin who the fk cares ladin...

get my point?

Originally posted by System
[

EDIT: If Sharia law takes over it wont stay civil for very long and I like my head where it is. I'll probably pack up and leave this country before long.

Why not fight within your country for the rights your forefathers bled for?