911, Iraq, PNAC , All roads lead to Israel...

Originally posted by PGTWEED
True, the Israeli Intelligence agents warned their American counter-parts that the US was about to be attacked by Radical Muslim Extremists. The American reply to their warning... "Thank you. We will take it under advisement."

Mossad is schmart. The US government was dysfunctional at 911... we still are in many places but there has been many improvements. Still more improvement needed, including using INTERPOL.
There was a house-cleaning at the administration change and another one is needed soon. Too bad it will take another catastrophic event.

BTW, the US government is warned of an Islamic attack 2010 and they have taken it under advisement. Think they are sitting around eating jelly donuts?

I'm sorry, somehow I missed this earlier post. I don't have time to provide an exhaustive response, but only to indicate that there is a response and that one can differ from JJay55's take on these matters.

Originally posted by JJay55
First you have to define moderate? Those that believe in the Palestinian statehood is about 90%. That includes the right of violence to achieve it. Is that moderate?

Moderate is a relative term that needs, in this case, to be defined in the context of the Islamic world.

I think one could say that, in the case of the Palestinians, they are following the Israeli example. Many times in history people progress from, terrorist to insurgent to rebel to the nation's founder to "statue in the park".

What? There are moderate Islamic governments?

I would put places like Egypt and Iraq under Saddam in this category. I'm sure there are more but I don't have the time to research this.

74.6.239.67.../article.aspx%3FArticleID%3D10335&w=egypt+im am+arrested+arrest&d=Tt8V5xlMTOPA&icp=1&.intl=ca

And they arrest radical imans and clerics? Show me where!

www.dailystaregypt.com...

Over the years, the jailed leaders of the once robust Islamic rebellion have publicly called for an end to the violence, after Egyptian security forces crushed the two main groups of the 1990s, Islamic Jihad and the Gamaa Islamiya.

On Sunday, one of the top ideologues of radical Islam — Sayed Imam, a jailed Jihad leader — is to publish his "Revisions," a book recanting his past calls for the use of force to overthrow Arab governments seen as infidel.

www.sciri.btinternet.co.uk...

Saddam's regime crimes are countless and endless. (ipsedixit note: This first statement is untrue, obviously.) However the following are few examples of these crimes:

The killing of Sunni religious leaders such as Abdul Aziz Al Badri the Imam of Dragh district mosque in Baghdad in 1969, Al Shaikh Nadhum Al Asi from Ubaid tribe in Northern Iraq, Al Shiakh Al Shahrazori, Al Shaikh Umar Shaqlawa, Al Shiakh Rami Al Kirkukly, Al Shiakh Mohamad Shafeeq Al Badri, Abdul Ghani Shindala.
The arrest of hundreds of Iraqi Islamic activists and the execution of five religious leaders in 1974.
The arrest of thousand of religious people who rose up against the regime and the killing of hundreds of them in the popular uprising of 1977 in which Ayatollah Mohamad Baqir Al Hakim the leader of SCIRI was sentenced to life imprisonment.
The arrest, torture and executions of tens of religious scholars and Islamic activists in such as Qasim Shubbar, Qasim Al Mubarqaa in 1979.
The arrest, torture and execution of Ayatollah Mohamad baqir Al Sadr and his sistre Amina Al Sadr (Bint Al Huda) in 1980.

Here is a very interesting excerpt from a short online biography of Saddam Hussein that is worth taking a look at:

atheism.about.com...

Iraq under Saddam Hussein was very secular and, as a consequence, there was far more freedom for women and non-Muslims than in most other Arab Muslim nations. In contrast to the religiously authoritarian direction which Iraq has taken under the American occupation, though, such secularism is a difficult target for criticism for religious conservatives who otherwise treat secular governments as inspired by the Antichrist.

Notice the segment in bold print. There are people who believe that the US is promoting chaos in the Islamic world by promoting the activities of islamic radicals including the Taliban.

Even the UK and US doesn't deport radical hate-speaking imams.

www.militantislammonitor.org...

A jailed extremist Muslim cleric named by Britain's government as a key influence on one of four men who carried out the 2005 London transport bombings was deported to Jamaica Friday, the home secretary said.

english.aljazeera.net...

A Muslim imam convicted by the US government of raising funds for terrorist organisations has been deported, immigration authorities say.

The problem with education of Muslims is that they don't think they need to be educated. They are fine with their knowledge and believe that the West is on the wrong path. They feel that we need to be educated about them.... which of course will be a rosy picture.

I think that might be true of some students in religious schools studying to be imams, but it is patently and obviously wrong everywhere else in every muslim country in the world. Even the most primitive countries in the world need educated people to run them and more and more educated people to safeguard them and even more educated people to prosper.

You think muslims don't know that?

The movement to bring Sharia law worldwide is definately growing.

As is opposition to it. A lot of muslims in Toronto came to get away from Sharia Law and have made their views clear in public when this issue has come up.

There are industries in the US that are constantly hounded by employees who won't handle pork, liquor, or work on Islamic holy days.

Catering to religious demands goes across the board to all religions. Can you believe it? There are Christians who gripe about having to work on Christmas Day.

There are demands for gender specific prayer rooms. At Islamic events security does not allow free speech or distribution of Christian pamplets.

What other religion allows proselytizers from other faiths to come to their events and try to convert their people? There is a time and place for all of that. In the west there are people of all faiths handing pamphlets out on the street. You take one or you don't. The choice is yours.

This is not petering out. In fact, it is growing substantially.

I agree that there will always be pressure for Sharia Law. The reason for that is that Sharia Law is what the franchise of Islam is built on. The franchise of Islam, i.e., Islam the employer is built upon Sharia Law and interpretation of the Koran to the faithful. All religions have that franchise like ingredient, which is a source of income and power within a community.

That function within any religious community is more important than it's relationship to the community's interaction with outsiders, i.e., us.

There is also the tradition of honor killing with is happening all over the US and Canada. This is where daughters are being killed for dating boys that are not muslims or acting too Western. Take a look around... this is happening now.

I'll take notice when they stop arresting and jailing the "honor murderers."


[edit on 6-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by PGTWEED

Israel & Jews, Learn the difference

[edit on 6/8/2009 by Neo-V™]

Originally posted by Neo-V™
reply to post by PGTWEED

 

Israel & Jews, Learn the difference

[edit on 6/8/2009 by Neo-V™]

Anti-semitism is the same whether the victims are secular Jews or religious Jews. BOYCOTT HATRED AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE AND FAITH!!!

reply to post by ipsedixit


Some nice points.

Egypt is hardly moderate. They support the Muslim Brotherhood and kill Copts. They also are the biggest country with female genital mutilation. Sure they look good on paper but jizya and Sharia Law still don't allow equality.

Honor killing goes unpunished in most cases in the OIC (57 Islamic countries). In other countries it is illegal and the murders are brought to justice. But why should other countries have to deal with a crime that the honor killers think is right after-the-fact? Because muslims take Sharia Law over the law of the country they are living in and will act accordingly... growing current problem for UK, Canada, and US.