So you think the Bible is a conspiracy? Watch this...

reply to post by phi1618



that's right phi...but i was there once too. i used to assume things about people that didn't believe. Now, i see us all on a journey within ourselves.
to be honest, religious/atheist threads are dispicable, and anaethema to productivity and, ahem, evolution of the soul.

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by phi1618

 

I have a hypothetical for you, if there was no religion would the world be a better more tolerant place??

LOL... NO, it would be swallowed up with evil. The Bible says that Christains are the salt of the Earth. When the rapture occures and we are all gone the great tribulation will start because the salt of the earth will be gone and so will it's tollerence, peace, and love.

Since we will never know, it's a hard question to answer.

BUT. I do know, that in the name of religion hundreds of millions, if not billions have been ruthlessly murdered and exterminated.

So, you can sit here all day long and ponder your hypothetical's. But I prefer the lessons history has shown us. And that is that there has been no other cause in human history which has resulted in so much loss of life.

Of course, a murder isn't a murder if it's done in the name of your god right? Or perhaps we'll just ignore those unpleasant facts and drink from the punch bowl of intentional ignorance.


EDIT TO ADD: There is a clear reason why the "TPTB" are satan warshippers. Centuries ago, they seen the curruption and lies spewn by the so called "Good" christians of the day and decided that who ever they were warshipping, they would warship the opposite because he must be better than what they believe in.

It's also worth noting that Italy was Germany's ally during WWII while Germany was exterminating millions of people through genocide.

Yes, Italy. Home of the Vatican. What good people they are.

Vatican, richest entity on earth, could entirely eliminate practically all human suffering over night. But does nothing. Good people you look upto.


It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant christian zealots can run around spewing their holier than thou propaganda about how good they are, but fail to see the atrocities that their leaders have committed for ten's of centuries. King says, get a grip.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by king9072]

reply to post by heyo


no argument there, simply entertain the OP in a discussion it doesn't necessarily mean im defending a belief or viewpoint.

As a matter of fact, all my posts are merely trying to show the OP that very fact, that we are all in this together. Simply look at my posts. And the ego kills.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by phi1618]

Originally posted by phi1618


edit add - also every religion thinks their religion is the not man made one...

[edit on 4-8-2009 by phi1618]

[edit on 4-8-2009 by phi1618]

To answer an earlier question, no the earth is not 6000 years old it is billions of years old. Man is 6000 years old. In Gensis when God created the Heavens and the Earth he did so in 7 days, however God's time is not the time God gave us so a day in God's time could be who knows how long? However, since Adam and Eve there has been God and the belief in God or the disbelief in God. No it was not named the Holy Church of______ becuase before it was perverted there was only ONE belief and everything else was non belief. Yea every religion claims to be the ONE but if you study the Bible and history and if you are believer filled with the Holy ghost then it is very clear which one is the ONE.

reply to post by king9072


King9072 you are right "BUT. I do know, that in the name of religion hundreds of millions, if not billions have been ruthlessly murdered and exterminated." Notice in the name of religion. Religion is man made idealology and Satan has used it masterfully to keep people fighting so this exact argument could be throwed out to discredit God.

reply to post by Melissa101


This could go on and on forever. The basic point ive tried to make with all of this is that "who cares?". I mean does verifying your belief which cannot be changed.....really matter.... it will satisfy your ego, and lead to more bloodshed in the end. For what? to say we where right and you where wrong?

Do you know why there would be peace if there was no religion? well the answer is simple and in essence i have managed to pull a valid answer out of you to this already.

Before the religions went by names and where tainted by man ( man made religion ) there was peace. We all shared one belief...... the belief was that of mystery, its not until mans ego stepped in an he decided to say " im right your wrong " that the problems started.

the message of their Prophets have been skewed, they would be ashamed. And im sure they would keep quiet if they had do-overs.

reply to post by king9072


Another A

"Yes, Italy. Home of the Vatican. What good people they are.

Vatican, richest entity on earth, could entirely eliminate practically all human suffering over night. But does nothing. Good people you look upto.


It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant christian zealots can run around spewing their holier than thou propaganda about how good they are, but fail to see the atrocities that their leaders have committed for ten's of centuries. King says, get a grip."

Catholosism is Satans thrown. It is the great whore of all whores meaning the false religion of all religions. Proof is in the pudding. They do have enough wealth to wipe out all human suffering, they are the heart of the "PTB" Yes these Christain zealots spew much propraganda
but they are far from ignoratn (unfortunatly) they have most people by unknowingly by the (excuce my un Christain ways) bal%s and they do not even know it. Ever observe "the mass of Christ" Christmas? Isn't Saint Nick the sweetest most inocent looking man? Or how about pornography ever watch porn? It is all backed by from your friendly neighborhood Catholic Church. There are hundreds and hundreds of examples but long story short Catholosism is a bad example of a belief in God.

reply to post by Melissa101


there you go again, bashing beliefs... walk the higher path.

Originally posted by phi1618
reply to post by Melissa101

 

This could go on and on forever. The basic point ive tried to make with all of this is that "who cares?". I mean does verifying your belief which cannot be changed.....really matter.... it will satisfy your ego, and lead to more bloodshed in the end. For what? to say we where right and you where wrong?

Do you know why there would be peace if there was no religion? well the answer is simple and in essence i have managed to pull a valid answer out of you to this already.

Before the religions went by names and where tainted by man ( man made religion ) there was peace. We all shared one belief...... the belief was that of mystery, its not until mans ego stepped in an he decided to say " im right your wrong " that the problems started.

the message of their Prophets have been skewed, they would be ashamed. And im sure they would keep quiet if they had do-overs.

Yes it could go one forever. But any Christain worth their salt cares about other peoples souls. And no there has not been peace since Satan tempted Eve with the apple. There have always been two sides God and Satan. Remeber Cian and Abel their was blood shed there and it was over jealusy. Satan is a master manipulator and it has been proven over and over in the above posts because of the perverted lies that so many people are adamit to believe. Man fights over religion if a man fights over God he is not in the right house. Further proof that things have been so far twisted that most people do not know which way is up. I could care less if if anyone thinks I am right or wrong because isn't that all that matters what other people think? We can all validate anything in our own minds we are all right in our own minds but that does not mean we are right. 99.9 % of the time in reality we are wrong because we are human. Many people think they are so smart so logical so scientific so grand yet we really know nothing compared to our creator. So many are consumed with arogance that they think they right and are danmed to be righ at all costs. I psot these threads not to fight but to bring a different perspective to try to inlighten if I succeed fine, if not fine, it is of no loss to me I have done all I am asked to.

Originally posted by phi1618
reply to post by Melissa101

 

there you go again, bashing beliefs... walk the higher path.

Yep sure am. There is no shame in calling a wolf by it's name. If Catholics were the religion of God they would not haord their trillions, they would cure disease and feed the starving. That is what God would want done with their money but God is not the head of this Satan is. I am not trying to walk a higher path I am no better than anyone.

reply to post by Melissa101


If god was GOD shouldn't he?

I mean god, the creator of all the universe, the supreme being, the alpha and omega....... cant cure suffering...

o boy, i think im gonna sleep, but if Christians care so much about our souls, than they should stay with us and help us when their rapture occurs. Or better yet, do what Jesus did, suffer for our sins, i mean he did pretty well for himself being the son of god and all.

doesn't pure self sacrifice grant one entry into heaven ?

[edit on 4-8-2009 by phi1618]

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Thats what I mean the Christians would turn this into a Circus. This is about the Old Testament anyways, not the New Testament.

The Old Testament is for Christians, too. It's part of the revelation of God and New Testament revelation is built upon it.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The Bible is not for Christians, it is for all of mankind. I am a human too, and this is my heritage as much as it is anyone else's dangit!

Well, anybody in the world may pick up a Bible, read it and enjoy it.

However, if you're not in the covenant, it's not part of your heritage. (Aside from the sense in which Western culture is built on biblical foundations, and to the extent that you claim Western culture, then the Bible is part of your heritage.) And it does belong only to covenant members. Union with Christ is open to all who will believe and follow Him, but only those who are in union with Him can actually claim participation in the things of His covenant...the Scriptures being one of the primary elements of that covenant.

From another angle, an outsider claiming ownership or heritage of the Bible is akin to claiming a right to the Lord's Supper (Communion, the Eucharist). And this just isn't so. In the case of the Supper, only believers may claim the right to participate in that sacrament. The Scriptures are a little different, since anyone may read them. But claiming they're part of your heritage when you're not a member of the covenant just isn't true. (Again, unless you're referring to the Bible's foundational role in Western culture. In that case, it's part of all of us, even atheists.)

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Genesis clearly states that God IS the Universe itself. God can not speak with a voice, for God is all voices. ETC ETC

Genesis nowhere says this. In fact, just the opposite, Genesis teaches that God and the universe are separate and distinct. God creates the universe...the universe is a creation of His. And Genesis does not teach that God is all voices...whatever that would mean. Genesis does in fact teach that God speaks, and is seen doing so in multiple places.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So what voice was speaking to Moses? It cannot be God because God is everywhere and everything. Timeless eternal and infinite. So having a "voice of God" makes God Finite and Limited to this one voice.

You do not get the idea that God is everything from the Bible. Genesis clearly teaches the distinction between the Creator and the creature. And that God is everywhere does not incapacitate His ability to speak. Why would it? God is certainly not bound by time, and is beyond it...but He's also within it. God is both transcendent AND imminent. He is above His creation, but He's also present within it. God's infinite attributes in no way mutes His speech. If that were the case, in what sense is God infinite? If He were unable to communicate with His people, that would put a limit on His abilities, would it not?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
What did moses have seismic equipment and a laser beam?

God's power is not bound. He split the rock and caused water to spring up. Moses was the secondary cause. Same with every miracle. God is the primary cause...the prophet is the secondary cause. There is no magic in striking stones with staves.

Originally posted by phi1618
Doesn't pure self sacrifice grant one entry into heaven ?

No.

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by phi1618

 

I have a hypothetical for you, if there was no religion would the world be a better more tolerant place??

LOL Yes. Because then there would be less belief systems built upon hypothetical and mystery.

Besides, which of the 30,000 gods that man has created are the real one?

@OP: The old testament itself is part astronomical allegory, part history, part mythology, part "rules to live by." It's a great read...especially the part where the main god character tells his followers to kill all the Hittites, Canaanites and Philistines. Fascinating stuff.

By using the logic you are using, I can proclaim that "The DaVinci Code" is real. (Because it contains partial truths!)

reply to post by phi1618
And when Christians try to share the path to salvation, people like you (as I infer from the tone of your post; I may be wrong) go ballistic and tell them there is no God, and Jesus never existed, or that there are other ways to salvation.
Yet, in spite of people mistreating them, true christians will continue to love you, and will, I hope, continue to witness to you with their lives.

What annoys me about videos like this is the utterly unscientific logic they use. Take the split rock for example (yes thousand of years of freeze-thaw effect can do that, there are tons of these around the world), they use scientific principles (incorrectly) to claim that what they see could not be and then go on to claim this as evidence of something wholly unscientific! That is pseudo science and it is them transferring their own beliefs onto what they see. If there is no explanation then there is no explanation, you can’t say something has no explanation and then go on to explain it!

It’s like me saying that because I don’t know how the yellow patch on my grass got there I can scientifically say a giant sat on my lawn and did it. Rubbish.

By the way I can’t find any evidence that these people are at all qualified to be making the claims that they do. Of course I did find where to buy their merchandise!

reply to post by Melissa101


So what exactly is this video trying to prove in relation to the reality of yahweh/jesus,? I seem to be missing the point.

2 Million Hebrew slaves coming out of egypt ??? Is this a joke ?

That would be about the population of egypt !!!! for goodness sake !!

Aside from the fact that there is no evidence for the egyptians ever having Hebrew slaves, who the hell would have fed them all ??

I'm all for people proposing new even sometimes wacky theories when evidence presents itself, I feel it's good to have varying opinions.

But I become incensed when people use gullible indoctrinated children to promote their cause.

The use of those kids in that video was to my mind as abusive as jesus camp, utterly deplorable.

The area in question were provinces of egypt at the time, It's a little difficult to believe that" 2 million" people trying to get away from pharaoh would head straight into more egyptian territory and hang out there for 40 years.

In my own opinion i think it far more likely that these "Proto jews" were in fact Egyptians of the cult of Aten, which would be far more plausible as it would appear to be the first incident of Monotheism in the area.

To my mind the characters of Moses, Abraham, Joseph Jacob, Sarah et. Seem to bear greater resemblance to the royal court of Akhenaten leaving the Armana area following the reestablishment of the old Egyptian gods.

Yes I would agree that there are hints to historical veracity within the bibles, but these hints certainly appear to point to a portion of the population of Tel Armana migrating to the outer provinces of the Egyptian empire.

reply to post by muzzleflash

"To God a day is a thousand years, and a thousand years is a day"

So excluding his rest day god took 6000 years to make the heavens and earth ?

Interestingly why is it do you think that an omnipresent /omniscient being capable of creating "everything" would need a day off (or 1000 years) for a rest ?

Needless to say it must be a complete bastard to have all the xtians, pick your day off as the one day to plague you with requests en mass lol.

Originally posted by king9072

Of course, earth is only 6000 years old. No fairy tale there.

of course, the bible really does say that. No fairy tale there.

if a person cant escape the innuendo, intrigue and rumor that surrounds them...then i guess it would be pretty hard for a creator God to do so....

first of all, i validate all of the thoughts and opinions presented here...because im pretty certain that most ppl that care are the ones who post....people that just dont give a sh** wont waste the time....so to me that means something....like Carlin said...scratch a cynic....right? find a disappointed idealist...(just in case you didnt know the rest)

anyway, im a believer...and a literal one(biblically speaking). Heres why. When i was 15 i spent a lot of time researching the time prophecies of daniel and revelation. I saw how they squared with recorded history and predictions that came to pass about different world kingdoms, namely Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome...and then the 10 toes. Well, i dunno how you reckon the time those parts of the bible were written...but one thing that is pretty simple to me is how important a role the 'Roman' catholic church plays in virtually all aspects of world events. Of course i know right now they dont dictate policy outright....but almost every world leader pays a sort of homage to them by visiting the 'holy see'......no other religious/political power gets that kind of treatment as i can tell. For those of you that dont espose any religion or watever.....what will you believe when you are forced to accept the mark of the beast in the hand or forehead (so called 'sunday observance', the hand is the physical obedience, the head is the belief) that no man might buy or sell without it. The day is coming....although im not sure how it will manifest...but given the fact that most of europe already has sunday set aside as a day of rest (stores closed etc) and have changed the calendars to reflect it (monday is shown as the FIRST day of the week, not the second, which it should be). These things all point to something more than coincidental in my mind....but thats just me.

I totally believe in validating the intellect...after all, God said 'come now and let us reason together' and the apostle Paul said we should be ready to 'give an answer to anyone who asks of the hope that is within us'.....so christians or other believers should never shy away from legitimate questions. Obviously those who are only trying to redicule or make fun of things are not included in that mandate...but ppl who are genuinely interested in finding 'the truth' should never be poo pooed with some generic bible verse or christian encantation...the truth has nothing to fear from genuine questions and inquiry.


those who are truly interested in knowing whether or not the bible is a legit book should set out to truly study the time prophecies of daniel and revelation, especially the 2300 day prophey, the 1260 year prophecy, etc....these all talk about different aspects of world powers (kingdoms) coming to dominance at different eras and just what that means to the world. One thing that stands out in my mind is the fact that even secular recorded history shows a trend that all powerful people have tried to CONSOLIDATE power over the known world....and this trend has never ceased since the first world kingdom, Babylon, mentioned in Daniel. Now we dont have the typical dominating world power as in millenia ago....but instead we have a different incarnation in the form of the WHO, the World Bank, and all the different 'unions'.

One thing is to be sure, just as the prophecy said about the toes of iron mixed with clay, 'they shall not cleave one to another'. No matter how hard the leaders of the world, the instigators of control policy try.....they will not succeed in controlling the world for any appreciable length of time.....this much the prophecy of daniel is sure to point out....and all who are interested in the validity of the bible should seek to understand.

just my cents.

peace