Breaking down Illogical Mental Barriers

Hello,

Right, ive started this thread in the hopes of drawing upon the vast array of knowledge all of you members hold.

I have been thinking about how our own perceptions actually limit us. For example, when sober, I over-analyse everything, thinking that whatever somebody says has a hidden / layered agenda to their message etc. I am rather socially nervous, but when drunk I have to be the most extrovertive, funny people you will come across.

I am still the same person but what I realised is when sober, my perception of events and people is somewhat / radically different to when I am drunk. Therefore, I am actually choosing to be socially nervous etc.

My point is how do we approach these illogical perceptions / attitudes we have? For example, the fear of rejection? That is another one that plagues me, and i think most. We all know the worst somebody can say is no, yet it still stops us from getting up and walking over to the person we know we want.

Anyone? Cheers!

I think it just takes realization of the barrier and then the self motivation to start making the change.

My mental barrier is almost entirely devoted to technology

It's irrational

Thought this thread might detail means of overcoming it

I was hoping all the members of ATS could chare their own opinions, strategies and anecdotes on how they themselves overcome these mental barriers.

We are all different, so to have a wide variety of perspectives would be best here.

I, myself use self talk most of the time. That combined with scheduled meditation helps me retain clarity and focus throughout the day and throughout my problems.

Cheers,

I use binaural beat brainwave entrainment technology to provoke an evolutionary growth process in my overall conscious awareness, although I still haven't gotten bold enough to go out and get a girlfriend, but my confidence in all other respects and overall mental functioning has completely transformed as a result.

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: Starred and Flagged!

I find it comes down to clearly identifying what my A-PRIORI's are.

Then I go after the weak ones with Occams Razor!

Anything that is left afterwards becomes the basis for my new bootstrap.

Personal Disclosure: I hope that helps.

confidence can be measured and "flexed". when you feel yourself becoming more confident, measure your mind.
make it the path more taken, at least in memory.
use that memore then to bring on the instance during which you were more confident.
.....it's almost the same as a testosterone rush but more controlled and less pervasive.

Instead of analyzing things in the 6-8" gap between the ears, we must be present. You and your enviroment are one animal. Humans stupidly separate themselves from the enviroment in their mind, which causes much suffering to the individual. Come to your senses in the now (the only time and place you can hear feel,see). There is no fear in the moment.
It`s the perceptions we bring with us which are holding us back, we forget this is a brand new moment-and we bring our old self into the new situation. Then we wonder why nothing changes.
When in a state of presece, know that this would not be happening without you. It is all for you.
Check out Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts on youtube to get more of a feeling for this. Absolutley amazing stuff, has turned my life around.
Peace.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: Starred and Flagged!

I find it comes down to clearly identifying what my A-PRIORI's are.

Then I go after the weak ones with Occams Razor!

Anything that is left afterwards becomes the basis for my new bootstrap.

Personal Disclosure: I hope that helps.

Right, firstly, it is a lot harder to analyse your A priori's than its said. I have an illogical fear based on approaching women, when i have been told quite a few times actually, that im not a bad looking guy. So, when it comes down to it, more than likely the person is going to find my physical apperance agreeable, and I can talk quite a bit when i get going (the trick id say is using what they say, then ask a question about that). BUT yet i still find my step faltering when i go to approach. So what would be my a priori there? "she is going to say no". Thats what i would say it is. That itself is based on no substantial evidence. But yet my subconcious belief is that they will say no. So, the way I see it, my own mind believes i am not "worthy" or "good enough" to attract a beautiful female. How can you move from that a priori and just flip it all around?

Humans are not purely logical. We cannot just use Ockham's razor, determine that it is far simpler to believe some will say no some will say yes, rather than all will say no. Then just take that step.

I think, especially when it comes to this whole approaching issue. It is all about confidence. What is the definitive of confidence? I personally think confidence is all about how you perceive yourself, to be sure of your abilities is to be confident. So, with a scenario like mine, i have a relative lack of experience when it comes to approaching women. Therefore, my confidence in my abilities to seduce the opposite sex is going to be generally low. And so I dont approach. AND NOW, we are in a vicious cycle.

Now I come to ask the question, how do we all just ignore what our mind is shouting at us and just take that step?

Cheers,

Brad

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Toughiv]

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Thank you for your advice, id say it definitely has merit, especially concerning the point of carrying forward preconceptions about future events. I will endeavour to look at those videos suggested.

Cheers,

Brad

Originally posted by heyo
confidence can be measured and "flexed". when you feel yourself becoming more confident, measure your mind.
make it the path more taken, at least in memory.
use that memore then to bring on the instance during which you were more confident.
.....it's almost the same as a testosterone rush but more controlled and less pervasive.

It's interesting that you know what your talking about, yet at the same time have no idea that you are talking about a serious scientific art form. You practically hit the nail on the head, and didn't even know you were holding the hammer.

On a side note, and partially satirical note... Omega, are you an "indigo"?

Back on the serious note.

What the OP and perhaps some of you other people may be looking for is a combination of both Neuro Linguistic Programming, and self hypnosis.

If you guys are at all interested in drastically improving your life, and not just talking about. Buy my book, it's only $19.99. Just kidding. You can google search NLP and find a variety of books, the one that I read that introduced me to the field is "Introducing NLP: Psychological Skills for Understanding and Influencing People"

Back to someones question about approach anxiety. The reason humans have this trait is deeply rooted in our past. Humans didn't always pack into cities of millions of people. Civilizations were much smaller. Once you eliminated the elderly, the immature, the sick, and the taken, men were left with very few women to choose from.

Thus, if one were to spectacularly fail with one women, she will no doubt tell her peers of your inadequacy. This could lead to not finding a mate. Additionally, you took a big risk if that women was taken by a much stronger man, or someone with many friends, and it could actually be your life at stake. That's why we've developed this essential survival mechanism. It is much safer to say nothing, than risk everything. At the same time, without risking anything, you never gain anything. Of course, it's harder to understand this now a days as over just a few centuries we've begun to pack ourselves into highly populated areas, we have the luxury of being able to fail without the repercussions, yet our minds won't let us because of the outdated fear.

Back to NLP. The field of NLP (as well as self hypnosis, or if you have the money - guided hypnosis) you are looking for is called Anchoring.

When an anchor is fired it brings up an immediate response that we have subconsciously programmed into our way of life. We all have anchors, most just fail to recognize them. Words such as Love, or Sex, or Secret, usually draw a response when we hear them. Anchors are used every single day by advertisers to make you feel a bond with their product, while you know nothing about the product or it's manufacturer. So that when you walk down the aisle of Wal-Mart, you can identify with it, trust it, and purchase it.

But just as easy as we can acquire anchors we can also change them. With google at your fingertips, you don't even really have to buy a book. But the book I mentioned has a lot more than just Anchoring. With a better understanding of how people are receiving your communication, and interpreting it, can impact your life in a vast variety of beneficial ways. Love, business, friendship, all can improved by improving your communication.

It's surprising to most, that a very small percentage of communication in real life is done through words, the majority is done through body language - whether we understand that or not, our subconscious is a very busy entity. The best part is, is that it's free to learn and try, for those who take the time, it benefits them forever.

For those who need the help, having a trained hypnotherapist can drastically speed the time it takes to modify your anchors - but is in NO WAY necessary. Most commonly, you will be using the Swish Technique to remove an associated feeling with a certain anchor, replacing that feeling with one that bring courage and bravery can be accomplished, and most likely will change your life for the better.

I hope this has resolved some of ToughIv's questions. But additionally, if finding a girlfriend and experiencing love is something you want to do before your number is called. Then perhaps you should look into courses by Pick Up Artists, namely Mystery. Though these may cost some money, learning how women think will get you a chance with the girl of your dreams. Looks mean nothing, it's how you package yourself and present it. Time and time again, pick up artists, most of which are not handsome what so ever, can walk up and get the number of any girl they desire, no matter how gorgeous they are.

DISCLAIMER: Improving the way you go about your life may and most likely will improve the quality of your life. Learning methods of self improvement may and most likely will cause any one of a variety of side effects, including, but not limited to: Increased Happiness, Wanting to get out of bed in the morning, better success at work, improved relationships with friends and family, easier management of social situations, ability to associate and communicate with the opposite sex, additional sun exposure. You have been warned.

EDIT TO ADD: Now that I have actually thoroughly read ToughIV's posts, I can firmly say that every single possible thing you desire can be achieved by following the tracks I have laid out in this post. Good luck.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by king9072]

Disclaimer: As above and its still totally APT!

Explanation: You ask "How can you move from that a priori and just flip it all around? " and you answered it befor i had a chance RE: self confidence and personally I define that A-PRIORI as "Not being a Victim.". Then it just cascades down the bootstrap and as I'm not a victim I am therefor in complete control of myself as a personality and just tweak away when required.

Now as to your 2nd question " how do we all just ignore what our mind is shouting at us and just take that step?" and I can only answer for myself and I come from the A-PRIORI that if I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't then I'm going to do it and be damned as doing something is better than nothing and it's the only option that allows for progressive change to occur with some possibility of input from myself which goes to directly support an even more basic A-Priori that I have which is "I am only interested in totally efficient of totally power over everything" and that means I hunt down every possible crumb of power I can possess and wield, especially those over myself which is not seperate from the rest of existence.

Personal Disclosure: Basically in laymens language I use the tool of "profound, chronic, sustained and unrelenting bullying, nagging and various bribes" to make it so that I can't escape from my chosen "DESTINY".

P.S. who is in control of you? You? or

reply to post by Toughiv


Imagine that....You are telling my story. I to am socially nervous and look for underlying meanings when sober. I now have a little over 60 days of sobriety and its a chore to sometimes sit in an AA meeting and read expressions on peoples faces. My mind says they are "rejecting me, seeing just what a dry drunk I am, or funning at me". Guess my Question is...why do I do it? I get tired of hearing about what my payoff is...doesnt explain the solution very well.

Fear gets so bad sometimes I either flee or break down in tears.

Big bottle of red wine would stop this frame of mind temporarily I know but then Id be back to square 1 with myself when sobered up.

As for women...I have always settled for who settled for me after the desperation of loneliness had beaten me down. I cant imagine what it would be like having romance with a female I really wanted.

I'll close with this. If I keep working the steps, pray, dont isolate, talk to sponsor, be rigorously honest it will change for the better. Many of the serious AA folks say it will get better more so than I could have possibly imagined.

Trudging the road to happy destiny. Have to realize Im 70 days without a drink and it takes time

Originally posted by Toughiv
My point is how do we approach these illogical perceptions / attitudes we have? For example, the fear of rejection? That is another one that plagues me, and i think most. We all know the worst somebody can say is no, yet it still stops us from getting up and walking over to the person we know we want.

Anyone? Cheers!

Hi!

Umm.. I think that what we should do is maybe question ourselves the real reasons we're afraid of doing____ and the reasons behind those reasons ect, because although ultimately such things can be illogical, they'd still have minimum logic behind it- for example, because we're scared of_____, understanding the deeper problems will help solve the surface problems. Also, knowing that we might not get the answer/reaction we want, instead of only accepting making an effort if we know it will go our ideal way, we should learn how to react/answer to the unwanted/unexpected reaction/answer.... For example- your example of rejection, if the person was to say no in a polite, friendly, sympathetic way, you'd know to smile, nod, and say it's fine, without having and emotional breakdown right there, right then giving the person a guilt trip or getting aggressive. If the person was to say no in a rude way, you'd know to come up with an intelligent, but non-violent comeback, maybe "You may LOOK pretty, but your words are those of an ugly barking of a bitch-" I dunno lol. And if the person says they don't know or they're not sure, or don't think it's a good idea, maybe qusestion them- but not in a desperate way, and try to persuade them, offering a really nice place to go out, that you'll pay for. Something like that.

Why is it we make up stories in our heads to protect ourselves when all the fear is created in the head. Something might happen and we deal with the event at that precise time then go off on our own and make stories about it. Scare ourselves, the only thing that makes us fear is our own imaginations.

Just to say to all comments thus far, thank you for your advice. Really keen on learning about NLP, however it does appear to be difficult / potentially dangerous when changing the order of your value systems etc. However, I have been assured, anything I try with NLP will only last as long as it satisfies myself on the deepest core level.

You ever get the feeling though, that no matter how much advice and you may still know all the answers, it for some reason isnt enough?

Im making myself a promise today, first girl to look over her shoulder at me and play with her hair, im moving in

Cheers,

Brad.


P.s - Anyone else have a illogical (or somewhat logical) behaviour they wish to change?

There is a really simple trick that I learnt and it has changed me greatly.

Whenever you feel down, lets say lack confidence, just imagine that you are an actor on a stage or shooting for a movie and you are playing the role of a superconfident man. Just pretend.

Play the role. Make it as natural as possible. (no extra drama)

Its that simple really. With practice you will forget the acting part and you will actually live it. Try it as a small experiment, you will see what I mean.

[edit on 4/8/2009 by rocksolidbrain]

reply to post by rocksolidbrain


Hmm will do Thanks

Scientifically, what does this do? make you choose a perception?

I know that perception is controllable. I remember once i had one of those moments where everything in your system of belief just clicks with reality (not an epithany as such).

The example was, a little 6yr old girl I know had a crush on me, I chose to ignore it and let her get the message on her own. Once me and my friends were in the mother's house, having a party. My friend asked the said little girl to make him a drink and she complained she was too tired and she literally looked exhausted. Then i stood up to make myself a drink (when my mate mentioned it, it made me want one), the little girl immediately jumped to her feet to ask if she could make it for me.

It was that moment when i thought to myself, perception is choice.

What you think?

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by rocksolidbrain

 

Scientifically, what does this do? make you choose a perception?

I'm not a psychologist, but I think such deliberate behavior overwrites the old unwanted behavioral programs.

Due to some events or social conditioning we get programmed to behave in some ways, most of these are good for surviving in nature and society.

But sometimes you feel (the true you) that that a particular behavior is not what you want, but you still feel compelled to behave like that, then the program has served its purpose and is now outdated, and you must remove it. Mostly strong will is enough to change it and replace it with something else. It takes time and positive re-enforcements.

The trick I mentioned is just a short cut for changing the behavior fast.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Disclaimer: Traded in for $4500 supplemental payment in Cash for Clunkers program.

Explanation: Starred and Flagged!

I find it comes down to clearly identifying what my A-PRIORI's are.

Then I go after the weak ones with Occams Razor!

Anything that is left afterwards becomes the basis for my new bootstrap.

Personal Disclosure: I hope that helps.

I think your best approach to ask yourself why you joined the non-Abrahamic faith that you did. By its nature it chops up your mental barriers into nano-size particles subject to the whimsies of brownian motion thereby enabling more thorough absorbtion into the aveoli in the lungs. Furthermore, continued chronic overindulgence in your own undigested nuclei can lead to emphysima in the earlier stages and baloon into fullblown mesothelioma later-on in approximately 49.9% of cases.


[edit on 8/4/2009 by EnlightenUp]