Hawaii refuses to verify president's online COLBs

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by mikerussellus

 

I completely agree. I really want to get to the truth in all of this just because it's the right thing to do but to be honest, I'm a bit scared if he turns out to be ineligible.

Like you said, if our fellow awake conspiracy theorists get as angry as they do for even speculating on the subject, imagine what the sleeping citizens will do if it becomes proven.

So a part of me hopes this is all much ado about nothing but the other part of me wants to know for sure.

So, you really want to get to the truth but you'd rather not.

This is so indicative of the "cheating spouse syndrome". Half the country doesn't care if their president is legit as long as they are benefiting and their lifestyle is not disturbed. Doesn't matter that the benefits are imaginary for most folks they still prefer not to know.

What happened to the truth shall set you free?
Maybe that doesn't apply for atheists.

Just release the birth certificate already, black out the medical details, and this will be resolved one way or the other, it's that easy. Or is it.

But they won't resolve it. This will go down with 9/11 truth movement, this president will go on and the next president, a republican will tell us that there is no controversy about the birth certificate of our first black president, and if the goverment says it to be true then, of course is true, what's the matter with you people, see we have a resolution that he was born in Hawaii, now look over here there is a country left we haven't invaded. Or would you prefer a trip to the FEMA camps we are not building, perhaps?


[edit on 3-8-2009 by tungus]

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
Whether or not Obama is valid (you already know my opinion) some people have been saying McCain and Palin would become the legit executive body. My question is where are they getting that from?

I'll say hands down if that happens, I will revolt.

Ok by my reading it appears as if neither McCain/Palin or Biden would be President. It would likely be Pelosi.

Originally posted by WinoBot
what's the problem then? If he is a citizen then why is his presidency void?

The constitution states that you don't have to ONLY be a natural born citizen? Unless this theory has evolved into something differently then I would imagine this excerpt would prove you wrong.

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

I see him meeting this criteria... Am I missing something?

The part about at the time of the adoption of the constitution means you didn't have to be natural born if you lived here in 178?

reply to post by Aggie Man


Unamerican? ahh so im un american now......nice!

I served in the USMC , deployed many times over seas, am very active in my local and state level government and I AM UN AMERICAN lol!

Get your facts strait before you start slinging things around.......typical MO of the liberal left....cant provide and argument thats strong, so you call someone names and attack the person.....

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Unamerican? ahh so im un american now......nice!

I served in the USMC , deployed many times over seas, am very active in my local and state level government and I AM UN AMERICAN lol!

Get your facts strait before you start slinging things around.......typical MO of the liberal left....cant provide and argument thats strong, so you call someone names and attack the person.....

Asking the innocent to prove their innocence is UNAMERICAN PERIOD...I don't care about your patriotic deeds...Convicting someone or even accusing them requires the burden of proof be on YOU...YOU prove your case...if it's so strong then the SCOTUS should have no problem hearing it. Placing the burden of proof on the accuser is a VIRTUE of the American Legal System...Is that NOT WHAT YOU DEFENDED while "serving"? You know.....The Constitution.

[edit on 3-8-2009 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by drwizardphd


They verified what it says..not that the information on that document is anything but words and proves nothing. How many government documents have anything to do with the truth? Yes, the document might very well be authentic in its presence in the archives but the fact remains that proves nothing! Not how long it's been there nor exactly who wrote it or verified its information when produced!
Zindo

reply to post by Aggie Man


This isn't a criminal trial, the burden IS on Obama to prove he is what he portends and the documents he has seen fit to allow to be produced are authentic. Two distinctly different burdens of proof are involved here! When you apply for a job you are required to have the burden of proof that you are what you say you are and that the documents you produce are then authenticated. That's true of every security position with in the US government!

Zindo

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

This isn't a criminal trial, the burden IS on Obama to prove he is what he portends and the documents he has seen fit to allow to be produced are authentic. Two distinctly different burdens of proof are involved here! When you apply for a job you are required to have the burden of proof that you are what you say you are and that the documents you produce are then authenticated. That's true of every security position with in the US government!

Zindo

The birther's certainly act like it's a criminal trial...and would love nothing more than that...

but I will quote myself from another thread: "I believe that a sufficient number of people who matter and who's authority matters have ruled on this issue long ago...AND you can bet that those people saw the BC and confirmed it's authenticity. " AND if they didn't see it, then, at a minimum, they were given sufficient evidence to believe unquestionably the validity of his eligibility.




[edit on 3-8-2009 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by Aggie Man


No the constitution is a safeguard against the government, not being accused of something that should be proven in court. You do have right to legal council

That also in turn means that legal council will represent you in either confirming or dismissing your case, depending on if you are the defendant or the plaintiff.....

Not to mention you dont KNOW if hes innocent, and to claim that you do is either arrogance or ignorance, because no one but him and im sure a select few others DO.

And as stated, this isnt criminal trial.........YET , if there is enough evidence gathered and things start to become more quetsionable then perhaps that is where it will go.....

Simply coming on these boards and flinging insults at people, feigning intelligence in matters you clearly know nothing about is very unbecoming...

If you want to attack me thats your priority, however it is counter productive to the debate and does nothing but make your arguments seem feeble and unfounded.

Edit to add, they DID NOT see the B.C, they saw the COLB.....there were people that STATED they saw the B.C , but that is NOT fact as they cannot provide proof to this.........learn more about this subject is my advice to you....

Simply because someone SAYS something without proof means nothing, the same exact reason why we have to provide tangible proof that this BC is either a fake or real, just STATING so does not suffice

[edit on 3-8-2009 by ManBehindTheMask]

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by debunky

 

7 American presidents with one american and one not american parent (8 if you include obama) so far in your country.
If you are right octotom, 25% of american presidents were inegligible.

What other presidents had only one American parent?

Most recent one was Hoover.

I think this thread has done more to prove to me that the government is putting fluoride in the water supply than anything. I mean it really is just stunning at this point. I'll probably get in trouble for saying it, but holy jesus.

- The leader of the birther movement is a fringe Israeli lunatic who's been caught in multiple scams in the past

- The forged BC has been proven to be a photoshopped Aussie BC (as if it wasn't obvious by the poor scan job and the shysters that are pushing this)

- The entire mainstream right-wing, the ones with an axe to grind against Obama says this is stupid as hell. (Which is why I posted that O'Reily clip... but I'm sure Bill loves Obama and wouldn't take a chance to get the publicity and adulation to nail Obama)

Now you people have switched your story to saying you need two naturalized citizens as parents to be legit, or the Aussie BC online is a fake, or the fact that every credible source and individual (even those that hate Obama and the left) are in on some conspiracy. It was funny for awhile but now I'm hoping there vacancies available in some mental wards.

I mean really, how can this still be going? It's beyond ridiculous now and moving into the point of being frightening... like people needing severe medication frightening.



[edit on 4-8-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

Is anyone else besides drwizardphd and myself going to comment on the original news article? At the very least to say "Wow, Turlo, you really nailed that one - I can't possibly counter your arguments".

I was hoping to read debates on the new topic, not rehashing what has already been repeated on multiple threads.

Maybe because the whole article is a rehash of the same ol same ol?

Janice Okubo, the public information officer for the Hawaii DOH, also had no explanation for why Dr. Chiyome Fukino's initial press release last October and subsequent press release last week also avoided declaring the posted images to be of authentic documents.

Is actually the only thing relating to the headline of the article (or the OP) Now, if you read this you see the following happened: Spokesperson A refused to comment on statements of Spokesperson B, since "You really gotta ask B about that, she would be angry if i did"
If you ever worked with or in the media you would know that that is perfectly standard procedure.

The WND piece not even tells us what the question was they asked. Not much to go on here to be honest.

Originally posted by debunky
Maybe because the whole article is a rehash of the same ol same ol?

Janice Okubo, the public information officer for the Hawaii DOH, also had no explanation for why Dr. Chiyome Fukino's initial press release last October and subsequent press release last week also avoided declaring the posted images to be of authentic documents.

Is actually the only thing relating to the headline of the article (or the OP) Now, if you read this you see the following happened: Spokesperson A refused to comment on statements of Spokesperson B, since "You really gotta ask B about that, she would be angry if i did"
If you ever worked with or in the media you would know that that is perfectly standard procedure.

The WND piece not even tells us what the question was they asked. Not much to go on here to be honest.

Yeah, it's odd that they didn't post any quotes. I'm guessing something like this happened:

WND: Is the COLB that was posted online real??
Okubo: Not another one (moves email to trash folder)
WND: ...
WND: Aha! Proof! It's fake!!!

Good on WND for continuing to lead the mass birther movement into a hole. I dont blame the health officials for not responding anymore, the birthers just move from one excuse to another. Dr Fukino has however reviewed Obamas short form in person and has stated "its a valid state birth certificate".

In addition the state of Hawaii further confirms Obamas eligibility:
www.kxma.com...

His short form birth certificate is sufficient evidence of birth for the state of Hawaii, which was verified by the state of Hawaii itself, including the Hawaiian health officials:

To verify we did indeed have the correct document, we contacted the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records.
"It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo said June 13, 2008.

www.politifact.com...

Fukino yesterday issued a statement saying that she and the registrar of vital statistics personally inspected Obama's birth certificate and found it to be valid.

www.starbulletin.com...

Birth certificates as defined:

Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

hawaii.gov...

Now go make another fake Kenyan birth certificate.


[edit on 5-8-2009 by Southern Guardian]

I don’t understand the law or know its contents, but if it is investigated and found he did not meet the criteria to be in office, then he should be removed, however even though I am a republican, I do not think this means that the republican candidates should automatically take office, the office should go to the Vice president.

Whether or not a new presidential race should be started or not should be left to the public to vote on in an impromptu voting.