Photo - Obama's Kenyan Birth Certificate (political fraud)

It will remain up to each and every poster/viewer who participated in this thread to determine their own opinion regarding culpability, blame or credibility.

I suspect the OP was a "patsy" and after reviewing many of her posts, I can honestly
say that she maintains she made numerous attempts to clarify source.

Here's a few examples:

I have no details on the history of this document or how it got into the
hand/hands of the source(s). I am preparing correspondence to ask those questions ...

Actually I just posted what was given to me. And I won't reveal the source(s) unless he/she/they want to be revealed. That kinda puts a kink into the investigation of the document, but that's the best I can do. I'm preparing some questions to ask the source

I've got a few questions for 'the source' and I'll be getting back to ya'll with the answers.

I have sent correspondence to the source and asked questions.
I'll post the answers when they come in.

I've asked a few questions of 'the source'. I'm waiting for an answer.

(Warning: put the defibrillators on Stand-by)

In her defense as a known foe, it appears her queries somehow fell upon deaf ears, if you can accept comments at face value.

However, having said that. I'd be remiss not to point out that at times her posture was coy and taunting when pressed hard for answers. There could be some "Good Cop - Bad Cop" employed here. It is worth noting that the OP has a known position regarding this topic and I DO NOT think she was the right steward on behalf of ATS to break this in the manner it was "played."

Add the fact the thread label was Modified no less than 3 times requiring high-level board mgmt. privileges.

I certainly am not saying any "apologies" are necessary, but in the words of Bill Clinton, at least he acknowledged "Mistakes were made" and heck, I forgave him.

At any rate, someone grabbed a "Tiger by the Tail."

I look forward to a response to Stormdancer's latest request.

Without Wax. . . Kinda Kurious


[edit on 9-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

No, YOU have not seen it! The only thing you may have seen is the proven fake certification short form posted on the internet that even the State of HI refuses to comment on whether it is real or not.

The only one believing crap because they want to is YOU! All this conspiracy crap about the birth announcements in the paper is crap invented by the left in an attempt to distort the facts and label those opposing this as some far right wing extremist!

What does an ad in the paper annoucing a birth have to do with anything? How does that mean they had planned this knowing he was going to become POTUS someday? That is pure hogwash invented by the obanabots.

The mere fact they filed for a HI BC may be the reason behind the ad being placed. The newspapers may have just obtained that from the State anytime a BC was applied for? Or Obama's mommy or grandma may have ran the ad just because they were proud parents? Or they may have ran the ad to try and document as much proof as possible to avoid having to go through immigration so Obama could legally obtain US citizenship since he was not born here. There are numerous reasons for such an ad as to how it was placed which would have nothing to do with some conspiracy crap about having to have known at the time he would become POTUS some day! Is there no common sense left in this world???

reply to post by FollowTheConstitution

No, YOU have not seen it! The only thing you may have seen is the proven fake certification short form posted on the internet that even the State of HI refuses to comment on whether it is real or not.

Exactly. And no, there is not much common sense being shown by anyone who thinks they have any proof he was born in Hawaii. Those officials are bound by the privacy laws not to speak about anyone's birth certificate.
The most silly assertion is that because they went paperless in 2001, that not only means no long form now exists, but that all records are now in some non translatable electronic form that nobody can ever see. How does that even make any sense? And even when the officials clearly state that nothing was thrown away and the paper form certificates all still exist, the same nonsense is endlessly repeated. I despair really.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Why pass it on to another member?

Already explained... more than once.

Is this done often?

I believe this may have happened before, however, this was by far the most high-profile incident.

Did you imagine that flyersfan would get attacked for posting this topic, or have her reputation and credibility damaged because of it?

Several members were sent the same U2U and given a chance to create a thread, FlyersFan was simply the first... I had no idea who would post first or from what perspective they would post.

reply to post by FollowTheConstitution

Originally posted by FollowTheConstitution
Here is a summary of Hawaii’s “state policies and procedures” in 1961.

I agree, the statement that Dr. Chiyome Fukino made sounds pretty good "I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures" until you learn what those state policies and procedures are, then you realize how little value those words have.

www.examiner.com...

Thanks for pointing out those statutes in your post BTW, I starred it, but I was the only one who did, I didn't even notice any other replies to it, so I guess people can't be bothered to read boring laws (heck some people on ATS post a reply to your post without even reading your post) but they tell a fascinating story. I wonder if any other states have birth certificate laws as lax as Hawaii? I'll have to check into that. It does seem like it wouldn't be hard at all to get an official Hawaii birth certificate even if you weren't born in Hawaii, after reading those statutes. I'll bet most people haven't read them but people on both sides of this debate as well as those in the middle should read those laws, they are real eye-openers.

That doesn't prove he wasn't born in Hawaii, but it does make it understandable how the military personnel filing suit to get a little more proof (specifically the long form birth certificate) may be justified.

After all, Obama is not a private citizen, so making some additional records available to back up the birth certificate is not what I would consider an invasion of privacy for the highest public office, contrary to the claims of some that the president deserves to have his birth records kept private, they are certainly relevant to his presidency. Even if they would release the name of the hospital and attending physician, that would go a long way toward alleviating the doubts of some people, and I fail to see how that would harm Obama in any way (unless he has something to hide).

Originally posted by FollowTheConstitution
The mere fact they filed for a HI BC may be the reason behind the ad being placed.

Some people have cited that as a known fact, but I haven't seen "official" confirmation in the form of state policies and procedures of the time, or other such verification.

Another twist in the fairy tale..

Documents uncovered by WND strongly suggest Barack Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham, President Obama's parents, did not live at 6085 Kalanianaole Highway in Hawaii – even though birth announcements in local newspapers listed that address.

www.wnd.com...

Here is a new twist I came across that would fit into this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by neformore


Your analysis is off track . Politicians biggest problems or there own undoing is almost always brought on themselves . Now I have already described why any genuine conspiracy to use a forged document to bring down Obama would not be made public on this thread . So in order to explain my point I need to use an historic example Watergate . In short it was Nixon own actions and the existence of a recording system in the White house sunk him . Watergate was the first time technology paid such a part in a scandal . Even the leaks from Mark Felt came from inside the White House . I could sight other examples but I would only go off topic .

I do agree the way things can go viral has changed the world . Coming back to political scandals the admission or internal leak that leads to investigations would go viral .

I see many mentions of a Natural Born Citizen must have both parents as US Citizens...simply not true. A Natural Born Citizen is anyone born on US soil and does not renounce his/her US Citizenship.

For example, all those "anchor babies" are all Natural born Citizens eventhough one or both parents may have come here illegally. And despite their family background, they are all eligible to become POTUS.

In the instance of John McCain, both military bases and embassies are considered US Soil. With that in mind, an attack or either should have the same weight as a direct assault on say Wichita, Kansas. However some law professors are not as knowledgeable as others while holding the office of POTUS.

Hi all,

You might want to take a look at this...they are going to use this as fuel for the fire.

reply to post by burntheships


Perhaps rather than simply drop this little nugget into the litter box you could frame your opinion and the video's context within this discussion.

In short, how does it relate to THIS thread and what's your point?

Regards. . . Kinda Kurious 2.0 (Kinder & Gentler)


[edit on 10-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


Well it seems that opinions are dangerous these days...but since you asked...

Beyond the short opinion I did post which said I think "they" will use this as fuel for the fire...

Who might "they" be? In this video, Chris Matthews who is a MSM talking head does not hesitate for a moment to call all "birthers"
racists. He claims he comes to this conclusion by anthropology.

He equates the "birthers" equal to those who oppose The Healthcare Bill. He then goes on to say very denigrating things about above categorized people, offering no real connection, or proof. Matthews basically lumps birthers, healthcare bill dissenters, and racists together in one category.

Do I agree with Matthews? No. His logic? No. He basically offers no logic. Yet he is on a nationally watched "news" media source every day.

Beyond that, I am hesitant to state more at the time...
This current political climate is cooking...I think everyone sees that.

Each person can make what they will of it... they will be used as fuel for the fire.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by burntheships]

reply to post by burntheships


OK, thanks I see you points and overwhelmingly agree. I don't care for him but had defended his guests before. I felt they strived for more objectivity than the host.

I still am uncertain how it is germane to this thread which for a hundred pages or so revolved specifically around the fake Kenya BC and the ensuing revelation on how it was presented within the forum.

Regards.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by burntheships


Thanks!

This was a really informative clip. The part where the gentleman speaks about the tact of letting congress feel out these bills, and not being behind anything too strongly up front. Very interesting.

It makes a lot of sense to me

So while I appreciate and sympathize with the suspicions and frustrations of members who were not pleased to learn that this all began with the staff, I honestly believe that they were doing their best. They are running a business and traffic matters. This was golden content from a traffic generation standpoint and it was their right and responsibility to circulate it regardless of the likelihood of it being a fraud. They chose someone who is clearly biased in the matter, but they choose someone who was actively involved in the thread, nearly from cradle to grave. That's important. Further, FlyersFan conducted hirself admirably, as others have noted, in updating the thread to reflect the latest developments. I suspect that if some sort of bombshell proof of questionable vintage had been sent to the ATS team suggesting that there was an orchestrated conspiracy to circulate this material, they would have offered the material to someone like BenevolentHeretic who has a vested interest in that side of the debate and is likely to be a good custodian of the discussion. I don't think this is symptomatic of partisan moderators, though I have no doubt they all have their opinions.

I think the most operable question here is: was any harm done? I don't think so. It was bound to happen anyway, and the thread may have been run by a complete shill who wouldn't for a moment acknowledge the doubt being cast on the material. I'm not saying it was handled perfectly. I'm saying let's give these guys a break. These calls are difficult. Aside from trying to generate traffic to keep the site alive, they also have a reputation to protect. They have a vested interest in handling these things in an unbiased manner. If indeed their actions here appear to be biased, I assure you that was a miscalculation on their part.

reply to post by Arbitrageur



Yes indeed. If the Constitution requires citizenship then it must be shown if brought into question and not to a few unelected officials only but to the entire nation. What kind of country has this become when even the president thinks he doesn't have to answer publicly to the satisfaction of the people on this issue and the people are required to take the word of a bureaucrat?

And then the argument against is based on personal privacy? The average american is asked to testify against himself to the IRS every year but the "king" doesn't have to show evidence to a constitutional requirement when required?

They want permits with photo and background check, which are not even stipulated in the original document, to exercise your 2nd amendment rights but the president gets a pass on a constitutional stipulation? Hes an impostor for no other reason at this point.

This issue is pivoting on the word of a bureaucrat? In a constitutional republic? Just imagine what thy will do to your old and sick when the crats get a hold of the health system!!!!!!!

I go on vacation for a week and ya'll just keep pumping it out ...

Originally posted by maybereal11
Whereupon FLYERS GAVE THE SPECIFIC IMPRESSION THAT THERE WAS AN IDENTIFIABLE SOURCE SHE WAS IN CONTACT WITH...and ATS Staff failed to dispel the notion despite clearly knowing better....

The identifiable source was S.O.
That wasn't a 'notion'. That was a fact.
I never said I got the info from inside the Keyes camp.
I ALWAYS said I was just posting something that was given to me.

Originally posted by lee anoma
The fact that we were somewhat mislead in the opening post is what kept the confusion going.

Nope. I never mislead anyone. I just said I got it. The source was, at that time, anon. And that we should debunk/verify. That's it. I never once implied where the picture came from. All I said was I got the picture. That's it.

Last post for a while ... (I'm still on vacation and am not on my home computer) .... listen up ... I was given the picture. I posted the picture. I never said it was a hoax or authentic. I said - debunk/verify and that 'it should be fun'.

I never implied anything one way or the other.
I never implied where it came from.

For those saying I made the picture .. that's impossible.
I haven't got many computer skills. It's outta my range.

For those whining that I shouldn't have gotten the picture
to begin with, I say this ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


Have a good time on vacation FF!