Man jailed over lyrics in a song

Originally posted by Moodle
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

why don't YOU delve a little deeper and find out why the message was sent. why are yo upassing responsibility over to someone else? i'll tell you why, cause you don't care any more than anyone else does and you're just taking a stance for whatever crazy reason is in your brain.

True. You got me there. I am not personally vested, and I don't intend to become that way. I am taking the stand on a moral basis because I don't want my rights eroded away no matter how much safer the press tells me I am!!

If my family becomes the victim of some crazy rapper, or some crazy policeman, then I will be personally vested and the revolution can begin. Until then I will raise my children, buy more bullets and knives while I still can, and wonder why those poor "victims" don't do more for themselves!

Originally posted by Moodle
he can have all the rights he wants from jail. you would change your tune in a heartbeat if someone was threatening you on a record.

i'm gonna get joe smith gonna pop his brains
goin to 1500 south st and gonna run a train

but somehow it's ok to threaten cops right? would it be ok to go to a cop's face and tell him your'e going to kill him?

ignorant bleeding heart half hippie wanna bes. i hope the NWO rules over you for the next 1000 generations.

Hey now, don't be calling anyone a Hippie. I might have a pony-tail, and I might not discriminate based on color, religion, sexual orientation, culture, race, gender, social status, etc., but that doesn't make me a Hippie. I have a good paying job, a house, bathe daily, and don't like the stank of Patchouli, thank you very much.

I don't care if someone wrote lyrics that they were going to bust a cap in my backside. If they don't use my name or my address than it's fine by me. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Even if he had a song called "Kill Whitey" I wouldn't be afraid or bothered. I might even laugh.

Words are an expression of feelings. Expressing your feelings, especially strong emotions such as hatred or anger, is very therapeutic. It allows them to get out in constructive, harmless ways. It's a far healthier alternative to bottling them up inside until they fester and boil into rage and move you to lash out and act upon them. It is certainly a far healthier alternative to committing those acts.

And it's not like he said to a cop's face either. When you get in someone's face and make threats that is entirely different than generalizing about an entire demographic in written words (or sang in a song). "Kill Me A Cop" isn't directed at any particular person or any particular cop. It isn't directed any any specific person. It is an expression of outrage at Cops in general, and that is a sentiment that many people can empathize with, cops included.

Sure, it's not the most tasteful way of expressing his feelings in song lyrics, but it isn't criminal either.

Now if he went up to a particular cop and recited the lyrics to the cop's face, then you know what...I'd be right there with you in saying that it was criminally wrong. In that case it would be a veiled threat against a specific person who is a public servant. In that case, throw the book at him Danno. However, he hasn't done that. He wrote a song. He had a friend post it on his MySpace. That isn't a threat and it isn't a crime.

Call me a Hippie all you want, and level your voudoo curses of NWO enslavement on me, but it doesn't change the fact that what the police are doing in charging this guy for what he wrote in a song is wrong, both morally as well as legally.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Instead of discounting someones message because of the way it is delivered, maybe we should delve a little deeper and see why the message was delivered at all! Maybe this guy has a legitimate beef with the police. It is not that hard to plant a crack rock or a 'throw away' gun on a perp!

I don't even think that is necessary. Whether he had a legitimate beef or not doesn't matter. He was entirely within his Constitutional Rights to do what he did in writing a song and having those lyrics posted on his MySpace Profile. He did not commit Slander. He did not commit a Threat to any particular public servant. He wrote a song which is protected under the First Amendment of the Constitution. His intentions or his background, even his character is irrelevant as regardless of those things he was in the right. Regardless of what his message might be in his song, he still has a Constitutional Right to Free Speech so long as it does not Defame, Slander or Threaten any specific person by name.

Wow not a smart move on the govt.'s part for sure.

By setting this standard you will now have to jail nearly every single comedian in the country.

Not to mention freedom of speech is being trampled on.

WASP at one point sang about killing billy graham in the 80's and nothing came of it due to it being their constitutional right.

But there's a whole ton of examples of this from the 80's WASP was the very first to come to mind just because I thought billy graham was a hypocrite in the first place lol.

On a related note...while I was doing research into the legal precedents for this particular case, I discovered two almost similar instances currently before the State of Florida.

Busted on MySpace: 2 Fl men face charges over gang photos on web site

Elvis Rodriguez, 30, flashed Latin Kings hand signals on his MySpace.com page and called himself “King Kamel,” according to his arrest report. Richard Figueroa-Santiago, 22, used his MySpace page to post pictures of friends making “Eastside” hand gestures, detectives said.

The irony is that at least one of them has no gang affiliations. His made what he thought was a "Rapper" pose when the photo was taken, not knowing that Florida Law Enforcement considers that to the be gang-sign of an actual Florida gang. The boy is actually a white, middle class, college student who has never had any trouble with the law.

Both are facing 5 years in prison for striking the wrong pose in their MySpace photos under a new law (FL House Bill House Bill 43). This law tweaked some 35 different Florida statutes, including criminalizing “any person” who uses “electronic communication ... to intimidate or harass other persons, or to advertise his or her presence in the community” whether by Web sites, e-mail, faxes, or txt messages.

What happens when some Florida Gang utilizes the Bellamy Salute as their Gang Signal? Is the State of Florida going to arrest everyone who goes to a Ball Game, Sports Event, Race Event, attends Court or celebrates the 4th of July? Give me a break!

Apparently, no one wants you to have First Amendment Rights anymore out of fear that it could actually "mean something".

Whether you 'like' this bloke and approve of him or not, this is an outrageous precedent.

Think of the things we talk about on a site such as this that if TPTB wanted to ban 'conspiracy chat' could get all of us locked away.....forever and we threaten no one except for LIES!

Once people fear to speak freely.....we really are in trouble!

you people are blind as bats. you want better education and everyone to have a fair chance at life but you think it's ok to promote murder and get paid for it. gangs are one of the worst problems in this country and you think it's ok for it to be promoted as popular. then you paint yoruself into a corner and say you don't even need cops because you'll kill people on your own and let them come clean it up. i don't even want to waste the time to point out to you the inconsistencies in your way of thinking.

quote:

Words are an expression of feelings. Expressing your feelings, especially strong emotions such as hatred or anger, is very therapeutic. It allows them to get out in constructive, harmless ways. It's a far healthier alternative to bottling them up inside until they fester and boil into rage and move you to lash out and act upon them. It is certainly a far healthier alternative to committing those acts.

sure you can do that, no problem. you can even do it without putting it on a cd and selling it.

i can't believe hwo far up your butt your head is shoved. you seriously need to reconsider your priorities. i bet you also think it's ok to steal music as long as it's done online right? let me guess, because "music should be free". well if those artists wanted it to be free they would've handed it to you. no one is stopping them from giving free concerts.

a crack dealer is singing about killing cops and you think putting him in jail is a violation of rights. all aboard the fail boat.

reply to post by Nutter


A star for you. I agree 100 percent. He is an idiot living in the shadow of his famous father. The government will never touch him and he will never let on that he knows how evil the government really is. He is a whore for the system.

[edit on 7-31-2009 by groingrinder]

reply to post by fraterormus


I am 54 years old and have said the pledge of allegiance in school since day1 in kindergarten. I have never seen the Bellamy salute used in all that time. I have never seen it on the 4th of July, nor have I seen it at a ball game. So if the State of Florida finds a gang using that salute, I say prosecute those ignorant bitches.

Originally posted by scghst1
You cannot say your going to kill a specific person in a song, that i believe is conspiracy to commit murder.

You clearly haven't heard the song "Kim" by eminem.

This is ridiculous..

Originally posted by groingrinder
I am 54 years old and have said the pledge of allegiance in school since day1 in kindergarten. I have never seen the Bellamy salute used in all that time. I have never seen it on the 4th of July, nor have I seen it at a ball game. So if the State of Florida finds a gang using that salute, I say prosecute those ignorant bitches.

Wait, my bad! The Bellamy Salute is what our current Salute of Hand over Heart replaced because it had negative connotations.

I meant our current Salute of placing Hand over Heart...not the Bellamy Salute that hasn't been used during the Pledge or National Anthems in the US since 1942.

Thanks for catching my mistake.

reply to post by Moodle


Now I don’t agree with the lyrics, nor do I have anything good to say about rap in general. But I think you are missing the point that many of the members here are saying.

Once a legal precedence is put into place that violates the 1nd amendment, then the ball of snow begins to roll. Before long we could see anyone who says anything that those in power sees as “distasteful” will be thrown into prison.

I can honestly say that I can see the points from both sides here, and I do agree that the rapper needs a good butt whoopin’. But that’s no reason to get the government involved and make a case out of this.

Yes, what he said was wrong, and he should be publicly ostracized for it. Businesses should refuse to sell it. The record company should be flooded with calls and letters until they agree to stop releasing it. He should also be investigated and watched to see if he tries/has committed crime like the ones in his lyrics.

But most of the people here are looking at the bigger picture. Once these distasteful lyrics become a federal issue, then we have just given the government more power over our freedoms, the flood gates are opened, and this could eventually lead to tyranny.

It is for this very reason that the founding fathers gave us the freedom of speech to begin with. To protect us from a governing body that may not always have our best interests at heart.

So, in short; the rap artist and his lyrics are very bad indeed, but the price of our freedom and the possibility of allowing the government to dictate what we can and can’t say is even worse.

It simply comes down to the lesser of two evils.

Originally posted by Moodle
you people are blind as bats. you want better education and everyone to have a fair chance at life but you think it's ok to promote murder and get paid for it. gangs are one of the worst problems in this country and you think it's ok for it to be promoted as popular.

Yes, everyone is entitled to a Fair Chance at life. Have you read our Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

As far as promoting murder...there is a big difference between saying "First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers!" as William Shakespeare once wrote, and actually killing all the lawyers. One is fine literature while the other is Mass Murder. One is protected by the Freedom of Speech while the other is Criminal and Punishable by Death.

If William Shakespeare can "promote murder" as you say by saying we should kill all the lawyers then this Rapper sure as heck can say that he should "Kill me a Cop". That later might not ever be considered to be the greatest example of English Literature ever written, but it is and should be accorded the same rights.

As far as equating Rap with glamorizing Gangs and Gang Violence, you sound like a Middle to Upper Class Elderly WASP American when you say such. Sure, it's not your thang. Sure, it's not something your generation or your upbringing, or your social status would understand, but it's the culture of many people in America who have the same Legal Rights that a Middle to Upper Class Elderly WASP has. If they commit Violence they have their Miranda Rights when they are escorted straight to Jail. If they sing about Gang Violence, then it's no different than a Reporter for FOX News or CNN reporting on the issues of the day.

Rap isn't my cup of tea either, even though I grew up in Detroit. However, I'm not going to disrespect Rap and deny them their Constitutional Rights just because I don't like their music. I'm certainly not going to say that Rap isn't entitled to the same Constitutional Rights that any other form of Media gets. Country music is downright offensive to me, and I think promotes the same level of violence as some people claim Rap does. Still, it is every Country Musician's right to sing about kicking their dog and hitting their cheating wife, just as it is every Rap musician's right to sing about smackin' der itch up and poppin' a cap in a pig-cop. Regardless of your choice of culture, you still have the same rights as everyone else in America.

Originally posted by Moodle
i can't believe hwo far up your butt your head is shoved. you seriously need to reconsider your priorities. i bet you also think it's ok to steal music as long as it's done online right? let me guess, because "music should be free". well if those artists wanted it to be free they would've handed it to you. no one is stopping them from giving free concerts.

Actually, the bands I listen to *DO* give away their music for free! They actually make more money marketing their own music and giving it away electronically for free than they make under the Record Labels.

Trent Reznors "Free" Album Becomes Amazon's Bestseller of 2008

One of the Record Labels I spend 99% of my money at actually *REQUIRES* their Artists to make all their music available for free online. Their Revenue Sales of CDs have skyrocketed 15,000% because of this practice (and the CEO of this label testified as such in person to Congress, promoting how downloading music actually helps business)!

I wouldn't download music of an Artist that didn't do such, respecting their choice to abide by whatever draconian rules their Record Label requires of them. I just simply don't listen to their music nor do I buy it.

Originally posted by Moodle
a crack dealer is singing about killing cops and you think putting him in jail is a violation of rights. all aboard the fail boat.

I believe in putting a Crack Dealer behind bars for dealing drugs. I don't believe in putting a Crack Dealer behind bars for using his First Amendment rights when expressing himself in Song Lyrics. If you break the Law then you have to do the time. If you don't break the Law and just exercise your unalienable Constitutional Rights then you shouldn't ever have to do the time.

I think it is important to note that Constitutional Rights are unalienable Rights according to the authors of the Constitution. That means they are universal rights that cannot be taken away. They are not Provisional nor do they apply only under certain Circumstances (i.e., only Whites have these rights, or only Upper Class have these rights, or you can only have these rights if you are saying something that everyone agrees with).

If you don't like the fact that the Constitution grants unalienable Rights that are neither Provisional or Circumstantial, then perhaps you are living in the wrong country. There are plenty of countries that don't have the Right of Freedom of Speech. However, so long as you live in this one, you have to respect the Laws of this country, whether you personally like them or not. That is the very foundation of our Laws. The US Constitution is the penultimate of Laws which no other Laws, either on the Municipal, State or Federal level can undo or override.

If you don't like something in the Constitution then try to get a Complex Majority of 2/3rds of both the US House and Senate, along with getting all 50 States to Ratify the Amendment. That's how our country has worked for 233 years. Either respect it or leave it.

Originally posted by Moodle
some people should be locked up for what they say on ats. you have never actually had "freedom of speech". take a government class and you'll know that. the cops are not retards you know, they have brains to distinguish between a conversion on an internet board and a convicted coc aine (probably crack) dealer publicly wearing cop killing as a badge of honor.

if an iraqi (the new bad guys i guess) came to your hometown and opened up a jihad record label that threatened to kill YOU, how would you feel?

[edit on 31-7-2009 by Moodle]

I love the premise of someone who has so far thrown out names such as Retard, hippie, and said things like "I hope the NWO rules over you for the next 1000 years" questioning the maturity of others on here. Classic.


That being said, whether anyone likes it or not, when you are on probation, you forfeit some of your rights. I have a friend who is on probie for trying to get a call girl off of craigslist. Now he has to have monthly dr4ug tests for two years. There were no drugs involved in the crime(one could argue there was no crime at all, since no money changed hands.). Yet he still has to give up ithat part of his right to privacy.

Unfortunately, there has to be some punishment when people are caught.

But, is it stated in his parole/probation agreement that he no longer has freedom of speech?

And this is so ridiculous it's incomprehensible. A song is ARTISTIC FREAKING EXPRESSION! I rap. I hate gangsta rap, it's a psyop. I work to expose it when i spit rhymes. That said, this is no different from what i do when i rap, i express my emotional energy in raw form. And raw form is exactly that, raw, emotional, angry, and sometimes violent.

Now what if his song was about killing a business rival or such? It's not that he's threatening a person, rappers do that in songs everyday, they're just abusing their power to get the "last laugh" so to speak.

If this is really where we're at then i'll probably be getting locked up too when my artwork comes to fruition.

It does say he name dropped 2 officers that are deceased, but i can't imagine any scenario where they wouldn't have charged him with murder unless there is nothing that points to him other than this song. i think he just had bad run ins with these cops wrote a song about and thats about it. I really don't think anyone would be stupid enough to actually record a song about killing someone when they actually did it.

Now with that said. I am in agreement with others on here that have said this is a step in the wrong direction and i feel as if they are about to begin infringing on our rights, mor and more. Also two very famous songs I can think off that talk about killing police are...Ice-t-Cop killa(of course) And a 50 cent song called officer down. Now when it comes to people naming people they would like to kill in a song I can think of countless others.

Anyway to sum it up...Goodbye Freedom of speech, hello thought police.

Also the story about the two guys in florida posing for a picture and facing up to five years is even crazier.

i dont know if any of you have ever heard the song kim by eminiem but the whole song is about cutting her throat and taking thier dauther with when he dumps her in he lake. the song is pretty #ed up, but how is that any different than what this guy is talking about?

Originally posted by KSPigpen
I think it's been established that you can say whatever you want, as long as it isn't threatening the life of someone esle. They don't really tell us what the lyrics were.

Does seem like a bit of a stretch though, unless he specifically mentioned an individual and what he intended to do.

I don't see how a general statement, like 'down with the fascists' could be construed as a direct threat against anyone. Any idea what the lyrics were?

If he was a money maker/cash cow for a record label he would not be doin any time.....this wouldn't even be an issue.....I've heard many main stream rappers talk sh*t about others and say what they would do if they see them and they never get in trouble for it....y? Because they make other people money.......and those people have control and influence in this world...

reply to post by AgnosticX


After reading the article I believe it was just to prosecute him using the creative charges.
For those more informed than me, please correct me if I am wrong. I am to understand that one gives up most rights upon entering into the penal system and until their full debt is paid. Thus this individual, in my eyes, would be in the realm of as Forrest Gump says, " stupid is as stupid does".

He's lucky he didn't get tagged for making terroristic threats yada yada.

reply to post by Moodle


"Everybody who does not see things my way is WRONG! There's no way that I could be the one who is misguided and has unreasonable ideals! You're all a bunch of hippie liberals who don't understand THAT RAP SONGS KILL PEOPLE!!!"

Are you aware of the graphic novel (or, I guess, the movie) Watchmen? You ARE Rorschach.

If this becomes precedent, then we have problems, and there are going to have to be a LOT of arrests. Snoop Dogg better lay low for calling for "187 on a mutha******' cop". Or maybe the Flobots should be held for treason for the line "It's times like this when you want to plot a coup".

Because OBVIOUSLY saying something and doing it are equivalent. If the NWO does rule over us for a THOUSAND GENERATIONS, I will hold you personally accountable, fair?