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The Economy is Recovering
page: 1share:
I am genuinely surprised there hasn't been a thread on this in this forum yet.
Then again, maybe not, seeing how so many of you are genuinely opposed to Obama that any sign of economy recovery under his administration would just be "blocked out".
FULL LINK:
finance.yahoo.com...
Let's face it, fellahs, Obama's plan IS working. There is unemployment still, yes, but the economy is so deeply-rooted in recession that you couldn't expect anything less. Obama's STILL a human, not the AntiChrist, or fake messiah or WHATEVER it is some of you people believe.
You have to understand: ANY policy takes time to WORK.
It's one of the issues of governmental administration of ALL kinds... there is time lag. It's only been six months so far. I think Obama's doing well, especially since the economy is actually improving after JUST half a yr, and he's still keeping to it despite all the criticisms against him (case in point: ATS) and all the OTHER global issues like North Korean, Iraq, and terrorism.
Or are you still going to think him the Antichrist because you're limited in your beliefs and STILL adamantly hold true to your "religious studies" that Obama will bring about the end of the world or something?
Let's all discuss fairly, with EMPIRICAL evidence, please.
Now, if only Obama would just BUCK UP ON HIS HEALTHCARE PLANS.
[edit on 31-7-2009 by KarlG]
Then again, maybe not, seeing how so many of you are genuinely opposed to Obama that any sign of economy recovery under his administration would just be "blocked out".
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The U.S. economy sank at a pace of just 1 percent in the second quarter of the year, a new government report shows. It was a better-than-expected showing that provided the strongest signal yet that the longest recession since World War II is finally winding down.
...
Many economists were predicting a slightly bigger 1.5 percent annualized contraction in second-quarter GDP. It's the total value of all goods and services -- such as cars and clothes and makeup and machinery -- produced within the United States and is the best barometer of the country's economic health.
"The recession looks to have largely bottomed in the spring," said Joel Naroff, president of Naroff Economic Advisors. "Businesses have made most of the adjustments they needed to make, and that will set up the economy to resume growing in the summer," he predicted.
...
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has said he thinks the recession will end later this year. And many analysts think the economy will start to grow again -- perhaps at around a 1.5 percent pace -- in the July-to-September quarter. That would be anemic growth by historical measures, but it would signal that the downturn has ended.
Naroff said he now thinks growth in the third quarter could turn out to be much stronger because companies will need to replenish bare-bone stockpiles of goods.
"You could get a huge swing in inventories that could create a much bigger growth rate than anybody expects," he said.
If that were to happen, it's possible the economy's growth could clock in around 4 percent in the current quarter, he said.
Obama's stimulus package of tax cuts and increased government spending provided some support to second-quarter economic activity. But it will have more impact through the second half of this year and will carry a bigger punch in 2010, economists said.
FULL LINK:
finance.yahoo.com...
Let's face it, fellahs, Obama's plan IS working. There is unemployment still, yes, but the economy is so deeply-rooted in recession that you couldn't expect anything less. Obama's STILL a human, not the AntiChrist, or fake messiah or WHATEVER it is some of you people believe.
You have to understand: ANY policy takes time to WORK.
It's one of the issues of governmental administration of ALL kinds... there is time lag. It's only been six months so far. I think Obama's doing well, especially since the economy is actually improving after JUST half a yr, and he's still keeping to it despite all the criticisms against him (case in point: ATS) and all the OTHER global issues like North Korean, Iraq, and terrorism.
Or are you still going to think him the Antichrist because you're limited in your beliefs and STILL adamantly hold true to your "religious studies" that Obama will bring about the end of the world or something?
Let's all discuss fairly, with EMPIRICAL evidence, please.
Now, if only Obama would just BUCK UP ON HIS HEALTHCARE PLANS.
[edit on 31-7-2009 by KarlG]
reply to post by KarlG
Here's the only relevant evidence I can see -
And while we're at it ...
You said :
Let's face it, fellahs, Obama's plan IS working.
...
Let's all discuss fairly, with EMPIRICAL evidence, please.
Here's the only relevant evidence I can see -
Brainwashed
The goal of brainwashing is the internalization of the (unrealized or unrecognized) abusive control to where you believe and feel it necessary to enforce someone else's will as your own, unaware of your lack of free will, and usually with an illusion of stronger free will.
It goes beyond Stockholm Syndrome by having fear or doubt with regards to criticism about the authority (person, group and/or system of belief). Rationalizations are given to you to explain away anything contradictory.
The common use of the term implies a blind spot where you cannot see an opposing point of view because of some control or conditioning. Contradictory facts cannot be processed (mental scotomization), or are warped to fit into a form that no longer contradicts (cognitive dissonance).
Source : urbanDictionary.com
And while we're at it ...
Cognitive dissonance
... is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The "ideas" or "cognitions" in question may include attitudes and beliefs, and also the awareness of one's behavior. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors, or by justifying or rationalizing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors. Cognitive dissonance theory is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.
Source : Wikipedia
reply to post by KarlG
Don't believe everything you see and hear in the MSM. It's their job to confuse you, daze you and distract you.
Don't believe everything you see and hear in the MSM. It's their job to confuse you, daze you and distract you.
reply to post by KarlG
Not only is your evidence incorrect, it's based on MSM "Obama cheerleading". Increasing the national deficit to astronomical proportions, destroying job growth with 'green' policies, and obfuscating the real economic numbers by cherry picking is not a working plan---it's good marketing.
And these are just a few bullet points worth noting. Sure, he may be able to delude the masses a while longer; perhaps another year. But in the end, it will still end up the same. A bankrupt, broken America.
Not only is your evidence incorrect, it's based on MSM "Obama cheerleading". Increasing the national deficit to astronomical proportions, destroying job growth with 'green' policies, and obfuscating the real economic numbers by cherry picking is not a working plan---it's good marketing.
And these are just a few bullet points worth noting. Sure, he may be able to delude the masses a while longer; perhaps another year. But in the end, it will still end up the same. A bankrupt, broken America.
reply to post by KarlG
If you are really interested on information about how the economic outlook is all about, this thread will be able to help you see where the lies and the propaganda has help promote an economic recovery that is not there yet.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The thread in question has been going all through the economic woes day by day and step by step.
The economic crisis didn't happen overnight, it took decades to form even on those years that seemed prosperous it was nothing than an illusion.
Americas economy will never be back to what used to be because we are a nation of none producers, imports dependant and high consumerism on credit and debt.
Including the incredible national deficit.
The problem is not our nation is our government misguided and lobbied policies.
If you think America will be back to the splendor of years long gone by you are for a rude awakening.
Now is other players in the word that will be claiming our lost tittle.
[edit on 31-7-2009 by marg6043]
If you are really interested on information about how the economic outlook is all about, this thread will be able to help you see where the lies and the propaganda has help promote an economic recovery that is not there yet.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The thread in question has been going all through the economic woes day by day and step by step.
The economic crisis didn't happen overnight, it took decades to form even on those years that seemed prosperous it was nothing than an illusion.
Americas economy will never be back to what used to be because we are a nation of none producers, imports dependant and high consumerism on credit and debt.
Including the incredible national deficit.
The problem is not our nation is our government misguided and lobbied policies.
If you think America will be back to the splendor of years long gone by you are for a rude awakening.
Now is other players in the word that will be claiming our lost tittle.
[edit on 31-7-2009 by marg6043]
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The U.S. economy sank at a pace of just 1 percent in the second quarter of the year, a new government report shows. It was a
better-than-expected showing that provided the strongest signal yet that the longest recession since World War II is finally winding down.
The US Economy tanked....but it didn't tank as bad as we expected it to. Hip hip hurray!
George Orwell would be so proud!
The US Economy tanked....but it didn't tank as bad as we expected it to. Hip hip hurray!
George Orwell would be so proud!
I can't believe people think our economy is getting better. I have seen no signs of improvement. A x % DROP does not equal improvement by any means.
Cash for clunkers? What success is that? Just more imaginary money spent by the government and added to our debt. Look through the job listings online
or in any paper...they are a joke. Many are living on unemployment right now but what happens when that runs out? The economy is not going to improve
until people have jobs, which will give them money to spend. Simple as that. And what company is going to expand or invest in America right now? Not
too many. We are in a Catch-22 that I don't think we will be able to escape from any time in the near future.
um.....dunno how to tell you this but in order for there to be a recovery the economy has to grow, just because it's collapsing
a little more slowly this month doesn't mean it's recovering.
collapse = contracting
recovering = growing
it's not that complex.
collapse = contracting
recovering = growing
it's not that complex.
Thanks for the post, Karl. My last mutual fund statement showed a pretty significant gain this last quarter. After watching the balance sink lower
and lower these past couple years, it was a nice surprise to finally make some money on it again. My husband's 401k is also looking good. I feel
optimistic that the economy is starting to recover.
reply to post by Charis
Do not confuse the markets with the overall health of the economy.
That is what the government is trying to make us believe, that because the markets are in the green the rest of the economy is fine.
That been prove a false assumption.
Do not confuse the markets with the overall health of the economy.
That is what the government is trying to make us believe, that because the markets are in the green the rest of the economy is fine.
That been prove a false assumption.
Of course the GDP is not going to shrink as much as it should have when the government is pumping 10's of billions of dollars into the economy.
The problem is GDP also includes government spending, so while the economy SHRANK better than expected the economy still shrank.
They can pretty up the numbers all they want, but try telling the people that are losing their jobs and seeing businesses go under left and right that the economy is getting better.
The economy isn't going to get better anytime soon. It is just going to be a wavy slow ride down. It will fluctuate.
The problem is GDP also includes government spending, so while the economy SHRANK better than expected the economy still shrank.
They can pretty up the numbers all they want, but try telling the people that are losing their jobs and seeing businesses go under left and right that the economy is getting better.
The economy isn't going to get better anytime soon. It is just going to be a wavy slow ride down. It will fluctuate.
How the government keeps showing that bailing out the too big to fail banks will give the false hope that the finanical institutions are fine.
No so.
Banks are failing left and right, but hey this is a littler secret that is kept away from the rest of the nation unless you happen to bank with one of this banks in the failed bank list.
www.economyincrisis.org...
www.fdic.gov...
No so.
The banking system in the United States is still being overhauled in the wake of the financial collapse. Small banks which were not recipients of TARP funding have gone under in droves and the FDIC is working overtime just to keep up with the escalating wave of failures.
The “Failed Bank List,” has seen its population for this decade more than double during 2009 alone. From 2000 to 2008 a total of 54 American banks failed. Just eight months into 2009, the U.S. has already seen an additional 64 banks collapse. The latest wave came on July 24 when seven firms went under in one day – six of them were subsidiaries of the same Georgia-based Security Bank Corp.
The rash of collapses has put a great deal of strain on the FDIC, which is obligated to back client deposits within a prescribed range. For most customers, any deposits up to $250,000 will be supported by the government if the bank fails.
Banks are failing left and right, but hey this is a littler secret that is kept away from the rest of the nation unless you happen to bank with one of this banks in the failed bank list.
www.economyincrisis.org...
www.fdic.gov...
KarlG, I appreciate your optimism, it is something on which we should never falter. However, you (along with most Americans) have been fooled.
By fixating your attention on GDP as an indicator of economic recovery you have missed the "big picture". Currently, there is one chief misnderstanding: GDP, as an aggregate, includes government expenditures
Empirically, it is clear that government expenditures have been the fastest (and maybe only) expanding aspect of GDP this year. In order for the government to have this money to spend the following occurred: 1) the government taxed other parts of the economy, and/or 2) the expenditures were monetized, and/or 3) the government increased its deficit.
In all three cases no real economic growth is occurring.
The first is simply "robbing Peter to pay Paul", and in the long-run stifles economic growth.
The second is the most tantamount economic misstep of the moment-by working in concert with the Federal Reserve the government has the option to create money "out of thin air". This process inflates the currency. Correspondingly, it also inflates GDP numbers.
The third is digging a hole that has to be refilled later, with interest.
In short, the government can take your money (taxes), create money (monetization), or borrow money (issues bonds).
Government expenditures are a short-term solution that can be totally detrimental in the long-run if excessive. Incidentally, how do your government's expenditures look to you lately?
Once again, I appreciate your optimism, but in the future I would suggest that you take the time to better understand things before assuming that everything the media presents is as it appears.
Truthfully,
Shane
By fixating your attention on GDP as an indicator of economic recovery you have missed the "big picture". Currently, there is one chief misnderstanding: GDP, as an aggregate, includes government expenditures
Empirically, it is clear that government expenditures have been the fastest (and maybe only) expanding aspect of GDP this year. In order for the government to have this money to spend the following occurred: 1) the government taxed other parts of the economy, and/or 2) the expenditures were monetized, and/or 3) the government increased its deficit.
In all three cases no real economic growth is occurring.
The first is simply "robbing Peter to pay Paul", and in the long-run stifles economic growth.
The second is the most tantamount economic misstep of the moment-by working in concert with the Federal Reserve the government has the option to create money "out of thin air". This process inflates the currency. Correspondingly, it also inflates GDP numbers.
The third is digging a hole that has to be refilled later, with interest.
In short, the government can take your money (taxes), create money (monetization), or borrow money (issues bonds).
Government expenditures are a short-term solution that can be totally detrimental in the long-run if excessive. Incidentally, how do your government's expenditures look to you lately?
Once again, I appreciate your optimism, but in the future I would suggest that you take the time to better understand things before assuming that everything the media presents is as it appears.
Truthfully,
Shane
reply to post by RRconservative
I for one don't trust Government GDP numbers.. They have a tendency to.... well, to lie. Looking at the past few months fall in durable goods, relatively poor earnings on the S&P, and yet another drop in consumer spending.. one has to wonder how our GDP fared so well.
I just can't wait for more unemployment reports next week "Another wave of unemployed claim first time benefits, but over all claiming benefits decreased!" Then everyone will go "YAY the recession has ended let's go buy stock yay!!!" While the 500k+ that just had their unemployment end after a year grumble about how the system doesn't seem to make any sense. And a few, just a few, will have an "Aha!" moment, and come to the realization you never trust the Government. Ever. For anything. Especially economic reports.
I for one don't trust Government GDP numbers.. They have a tendency to.... well, to lie. Looking at the past few months fall in durable goods, relatively poor earnings on the S&P, and yet another drop in consumer spending.. one has to wonder how our GDP fared so well.
I just can't wait for more unemployment reports next week "Another wave of unemployed claim first time benefits, but over all claiming benefits decreased!" Then everyone will go "YAY the recession has ended let's go buy stock yay!!!" While the 500k+ that just had their unemployment end after a year grumble about how the system doesn't seem to make any sense. And a few, just a few, will have an "Aha!" moment, and come to the realization you never trust the Government. Ever. For anything. Especially economic reports.
Originally posted by RRconservative
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The U.S. economy sank at a pace of just 1 percent in the second quarter of the year, a new government report shows. It was a better-than-expected showing that provided the strongest signal yet that the longest recession since World War II is finally winding down.
The US Economy tanked....but it didn't tank as bad as we expected it to. Hip hip hurray!
George Orwell would be so proud!
Well, it's not Obama's fault the economy tanked in the first place.
But as a right-wing conservative I'd doubt you're going to agree with me!
reply to post by KarlG
He had a hand in it. He isn't completely blameless, he sat there and was in agreement and getting "gifts" from the companies that help fuel the collapse.
It isn't all Bush's fault either, this has been a long time in the works, it had to crash at some point.
Either way, Obama said he could "fix it". So for him to keep blaming his predecessor is disingenuous. The fact is the government cannot "fix" the problem. Presently they are just making it worse.
Soon enough Obama is going to have to accept responsibility for the economy.
He had a hand in it. He isn't completely blameless, he sat there and was in agreement and getting "gifts" from the companies that help fuel the collapse.
It isn't all Bush's fault either, this has been a long time in the works, it had to crash at some point.
Either way, Obama said he could "fix it". So for him to keep blaming his predecessor is disingenuous. The fact is the government cannot "fix" the problem. Presently they are just making it worse.
Soon enough Obama is going to have to accept responsibility for the economy.
reply to post by KarlG
Your right. It was the Federal Reserves. It was the Treasuries. It was the SEC. It was the Financial Advisors to the past few Presidents.
Now..
Remove Obama from the picture.
Has ANYTHING in ANY of those organizations, institutions, groups, etc changed? At all? ......... no? .....
Didn't think so.
It's not an Obama issue.. hell the guy has no idea whats going on, he knows jack about economics, he knows only what Goldman Sachs ... I mean, his economic advisers, tell him to say. Was the same way with Bush. And Clinton. And Bush. And so on.
Your right. It was the Federal Reserves. It was the Treasuries. It was the SEC. It was the Financial Advisors to the past few Presidents.
Now..
Remove Obama from the picture.
Has ANYTHING in ANY of those organizations, institutions, groups, etc changed? At all? ......... no? .....
Didn't think so.
It's not an Obama issue.. hell the guy has no idea whats going on, he knows jack about economics, he knows only what Goldman Sachs ... I mean, his economic advisers, tell him to say. Was the same way with Bush. And Clinton. And Bush. And so on.
Interesting. I wonder what percentage of the US GDP is currently government spending? I imagine private business decreased by more then the GDP
suggests when you considering at least 700 billion was pumped into the economy with the stimulus. An economy inflated by the government spending money
they borrowed from other nations or printed isn't sustainable for obvious reasons.
reply to post by Rockpuck
Actually the unemployment claims are suppose to decline as the first wave of recipients will not longer be able to receive them.
So the numbers to watch will be the new claims.
Actually the unemployment claims are suppose to decline as the first wave of recipients will not longer be able to receive them.
So the numbers to watch will be the new claims.
Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by KarlG
Your right. It was the Federal Reserves. It was the Treasuries. It was the SEC. It was the Financial Advisors to the past few Presidents.
Now..
Remove Obama from the picture.
Has ANYTHING in ANY of those organizations, institutions, groups, etc changed? At all? ......... no? .....
Didn't think so.
It's not an Obama issue.. hell the guy has no idea whats going on, he knows jack about economics, he knows only what Goldman Sachs ... I mean, his economic advisers, tell him to say. Was the same way with Bush. And Clinton. And Bush. And so on.
QUOTED FOR TRUTH!
/end thread
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