A challenge to Dr. Steven Greer, Stan Romanek, and all the rest...

There is no one more convinced than myself that Earth has, and continues to be, visited by aliens. Who they are, I don't know. I suspect there are dozens of different races and species here from who-knows-where. I have studied the UFO phenomenon since I was 11 years old, as well as most other paranormal subjects.

Frankly, I'm sick of people like Dr. Greer, Romanek, etc. who sell ANYTHING related to UFOs or aliens. You appear to be nothing less than the snake oil salesmen of the 19th century. You seem to be, well, LIARS. You sell the information that should be imparted to the world FREE. Yes, I said

FREE!!!

The alien presence here is the greatest story in the history of this planet. Nothing compares to it. Yet, you sell the information you claim to have privileged access to. You sell your alleged knowledge of how to call a UFO. You sell, sell, sell...and it is just sickening. Many of us have grown tired of your less than classy charlatain ways. You make a joke of what should be a serious topic and could care less. That, more than anything, is what exposes your fraud. It doesn't take that much money to post the information you have on a website. I know, I've owned webites in the past and comparatively speaking, it is quite inexpensive. So the argument that you need to fund your program is BOGUS.

CHALLENGE: DISCLOSE to we, the people, what you have earned from all sales of DVDs, seminars, training sessions, etc. related to UFOs. Certified copies of tax returns, etc would be nice. THEN...for one year, offer all the information you have, to the public, FREE.

IF YOU REALLY WANT THE TRUTH DISCLOSED, DISCLOSE IT. YOU CLAIM TO HAVE SECRET INFORMATION ON UFOs, DISCLOSE IT.

...we are patiently awaiting your response.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB

Frankly, I'm sick of people like Dr. Greer, Romanek, etc. who sell ANYTHING related to UFOs or aliens. You appear to be nothing less than the snake oil salesmen of the 19th century. You seem to be, well, LIARS. You sell the information that should be imparted to the world FREE. Yes, I said

FREE!!!

Whatever little information that is available in this field is already free. Rest is classified because it involves military data (that is not sold, so no question of it).

These people don't have any more than that, and probably don't know any more than an experienced ATS'er.

These people are selling pure entertainment, nothing more. The books, CDs, or seminars are just for entertainment. Its only gullibles who think there is any truth in them.

I think they dont sell any information

books are something that they need to do to live you know ...

Nice point there, they keep saying there are lots of solid evidence etc.
But I dont see too muvh of any undeniable proof..

I think collier had some nice ones about 10 yers agoe, but Im not sure if they are fakes. It is the ones he claims are pictures of earth million of years ago.. Yea.. Probably fake, but was intriging non the less..

As you say in the OP, you are convinced that Aliens have and are visitng EArth. That is correct ??

My question is as follows: do you se any reason at all that they could be visiting earth, ohh lets say 200 000 years ago and were good at Gene works? Aka. DNA engenering. ???

Yes, I am pointing to the Alien/hybrid theory ...

Originally posted by ChemBreather
Nice point there, they keep saying there are lots of solid evidence etc.
But I dont see too muvh of any undeniable proof..

I think collier had some nice ones about 10 yers agoe, but Im not sure if they are fakes. It is the ones he claims are pictures of earth million of years ago..

Yea.. Probably fake, but was intriging non the less..

As you say in the OP, you are convinced that Aliens have and are visitng EArth. That is correct ??

My question is as follows: do you se any reason at all that they could be visiting earth, ohh lets say 200 000 years ago and were good at Gene works? Aka. DNA engenering. ???

Yes, I am pointing to the Alien/hybrid theory ...

I would say I am certain that we are some kind of hybrid

thats because we can identify aliens in all of our life in this planet ... helping in some way ... that cant be coincidence

In before the lock!

Originally posted by Faiol

Originally posted by ChemBreather
Nice point there, they keep saying there are lots of solid evidence etc.
But I dont see too muvh of any undeniable proof..

I think collier had some nice ones about 10 yers agoe, but Im not sure if they are fakes. It is the ones he claims are pictures of earth million of years ago..

Yea.. Probably fake, but was intriging non the less..

As you say in the OP, you are convinced that Aliens have and are visitng EArth. That is correct ??

My question is as follows: do you se any reason at all that they could be visiting earth, ohh lets say 200 000 years ago and were good at Gene works? Aka. DNA engenering. ???

Yes, I am pointing to the Alien/hybrid theory ...

I would say I am certain that we are some kind of hybrid

thats because we can identify aliens in all of our life in this planet ... helping in some way ... that cant be coincidence

Thank you, I try to convey this message and people mostly say. humbug, but yet believe in aliens. I like merging the topics.

As to they being here now, contra was here before and what possible 'technology' they have.

Like in Balbek I think , there are stone weighing 900 tons, and some aliens had to get them out of the rock.

'experts' on the field say they are not sure how they did it, but it was NOT aliens !

And, if there were to be an 'mass landing' do you think it could very well be some one who have been here before ??

[edit on 31/7/2009 by ChemBreather]

Originally posted by rocksolidbrain

Originally posted by Visiting ESB

Frankly, I'm sick of people like Dr. Greer, Romanek, etc. who sell ANYTHING related to UFOs or aliens. You appear to be nothing less than the snake oil salesmen of the 19th century. You seem to be, well, LIARS. You sell the information that should be imparted to the world FREE. Yes, I said

FREE!!!

Whatever little information that is available in this field is already free. Rest is classified because it involves military data (that is not sold, so no question of it).

These people don't have any more than that, and probably don't know any more than an experienced ATS'er.

These people are selling pure entertainment, nothing more. The books, CDs, or seminars are just for entertainment. Its only gullibles who think there is any truth in them.

Greer can release some quality information for free, such as more pictures of moths that he says are really "light beings".

That would be very useful.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I understand your frustration with these types of characters. They don't really represent UFOlogy as much as they represent themselves. I've never been able to understand the reasons Greer forces CSETI members to sign non disclosures on his 'field trips'. It's counter logical no matter what excuses Cult Greer provide.

Romanek and his partner in crime Peckman... well... you just have to roll your eyes and laugh don't you.

It's up to serious investigators to make a bigger noise than these people are. We need to dominate the worlds attention with solid and compelling evidence. In short, we all need to work harder than we currently are to drown out the voice of the jokers and charlatans.

IRM

Hi there, I am not an expert in UFOs, Aliens etc but I am very interested in the subject. I think that the OP is correct but we should extend it to all these 'experts'.

Having listened to some of these people I think that some of them are telling the truth and some are downright liars. Instead of just letting the liars get away with it I think that we should call their bluff.

Perhaps we should set the standard such that if there is no proof or no picture or no documentation or anything at all, then it is just a story. Lets call their bluff and root out the liars. Some of them claim to have information, but they never get around to revealing it. Lets challenge them all to either reveal it all, for free, or just go away with your story.

Originally posted by mumblyjoe
Perhaps we should set the standard such that if there is no proof or no picture or no documentation or anything at all, then it is just a story. Lets call their bluff and root out the liars. Some of them claim to have information, but they never get around to revealing it. Lets challenge them all to either reveal it all, for free, or just go away with your story.

You raise a pertinent point.

I go running by myself out into the mountains where I live. Suppose that one day I see a UFO that is to my mind clearly something extraordinary, even extraterrestrial. Suppose I have no camera to take a picture of the object.

Now, I should be able to discuss that here on ATS. But if we apply the "no pictures so it didn't happen rule", then I'm history.

Unfortunately the Greer's of this world push people more & more into that type of thinking.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
There is no one more convinced than myself that Earth has, and continues to be, visited by aliens. Who they are, I don't know. I suspect there are dozens of different races and species here from who-knows-where. I have studied the UFO phenomenon since I was 11 years old, as well as most other paranormal subjects.

Frankly, I'm sick of people like Dr. Greer, Romanek, etc. who sell ANYTHING related to UFOs or aliens. You appear to be nothing less than the snake oil salesmen of the 19th century. You seem to be, well, LIARS. You sell the information that should be imparted to the world FREE. Yes, I said

FREE!!!


...we are patiently awaiting your response.

...

( Bash_x, thread Nr_x )

...

*sigh*

Another arm-chair hero, with "issues",
who arrives empty handed,
just to defecate all over another man's work.

You have "issues"?

How about the pharmaceutical industry?

FOR FREE???

Get a life.

...

Why not focus your energy on someone you can and want to support,
if 'disclosure' is really all that important to you?

To each his own.

...

Disclosure is happening Now.

There is not one important individual.

We all are.

...
..
.

Originally posted by Sam60

Greer can release some quality information for free, such as more pictures of moths that he says are really "light beings".

That would be very useful.

What if he was given that "evidence" by an insider who knew he would go public with it... knowingly full well Greer would be made to look like a fool and there would be 1000's of people calling Greer a fraud and poisoning the pond with their noisy negativity.

Hey if I was trying to keep a secret.... and I knew someone was close to knowing the truth and spilling the beans... I would be attacking that person's integrity as much as I could and setting them up to look like a liar... so when he did come out with the truth nobody would believe him.... and on top of that anything he said would automatically go into history as "bull#" regardless of who says it again in the future.

That's why I tend to think anyone who is being discredited like Stephen Greer or Bob Lazar... are probably the ones closest to the truth..... lets face it if there are others out there not even close to being right you aren't going to bother discrediting their credibility are you....

Why is it that so many people demand the truth and proof from the experiencers, but are not demanding the proof and truth from the government?

To Challenge these people to show you proof of thier income via tax returns, what does that prove? How about you post your taxes for all the world to see... You hiding anything? Maybe you are the liar, the one who is keeping the truth hidden from WE THE PEOPLE!! You really need to come up with a better challenge than that. The fact that you feel it is your right to know these things amazes me. What do you have to gain by knowing how much these people make from conferences, DVD's, etc? Is that going to make you beleive that it is real? Is that going to prove to you or anyone else that they are fakes, simply becasue they were paid $300.00 to do a conference for a weekend? I don't know about you, but I think your challenge is ridiculous.

Dr. Greer is working towards disclosure, and the means to an end costs money, charging outragous amounts for these experiences is a bit ridiculous I must agree, but paying them is a personal choice, you do not have to pay it, or attend, your choice. Many people choose to pay it.

Jeff Peckman, does not charge for the Ballott Initiative, he asks for donations, for volunteers, etc. How is seeing his bank statement proof of anything except that he is funding this thing mostly himself...it is just criminal to spend your own money to do such a thing. He does it becasue he believes it is an important step that he needs to take, and he gets negative criticism for it...Good Job, Mr. Peckman, I for one am behind you 100 percent!

Stan Romanek, a man of many words, and few dollars. He has written a book, MESSAGES, telling his stroy, or a small part of it anyway. Why does getting paid for writing this book make him a fraud? Becasue he is being paid?

Books have been written by many in the UFO field. Are they all frauds. NO...They are telling the stories of people just like many of us out here, that are to afraid to talk, becasue of people who will always call names, call foul, make demands, and think that these very personal experiences are thier business. They want proof, what proof would satisy everyone? No matter what many people will not beleive unless they experience it, then they will do as Stan Romanek did, convince themselves that it was a dream, or that they are loosing thier minds...Then what? Threats are made to kill you, and you shut up in fear?

Hurray for Mr. Romanek, he has been through the threats, the beatings, the almost being shot in the head, and he still will not shut up....That is either idiocy, or bravery...either way He is making a difference. He is disabled from a blood sugar disorder that started after his experiences started, coincidence? I personally don't think so. Would you like to demand proof of this as well? How about what size underwear he wears, or Peckamn or Greer for that matter, it is none of your business...any more than what their tax forms say.

Look to yourselves to provide proof, proof of your own thruths, what is your purpose on this planet, what are you supposed to be doing, and probably are not. Negativity begets Negativity...start being positive, and see how your life changes...

So I think WE THE PEOPLE should get back to the real issue, ET's are real, they Hybrids are a reality, and the Government is hidding many facts from us, now DEMAND it from the true source of the cover up, and leave the Messengers to do the work you are all to afraid to do.

Originally posted by elisabeth

To Challenge these people to show you proof of thier income via tax returns, what does that prove? How about you post your taxes for all the world to see... You hiding anything?

I'm not hiding anything and neither am I making such extraordinary claims and then hawking them like some cheap flea market vendor.

Originally posted by elisabeth
Maybe you are the liar, the one who is keeping the truth hidden from WE THE PEOPLE!! You really need to come up with a better challenge than that. The fact that you feel it is your right to know these things amazes me. What do you have to gain by knowing how much these people make from conferences, DVD's, etc?

Oh, whatever. It's a perfect challenge. I am asking these charlatains to prove me wrong. I don't need proof that aliens are real -- I know they are. I have personally witnessed 11 UFOs in my life on various occassions. But I'm not sellingaIf they did, I would post a separate thread retracting my derogatory statements.

Originally posted by elisabeth
charging outragous amounts for these experiences is a bit ridiculous

Shouldn't this say it all?

Originally posted by elisabeth
Jeff Peckman, does not charge for the Ballott Initiative, he asks for donations, for volunteers, etc. How is seeing his bank statement proof of anything except that he is funding this thing mostly himself...

I never challenged Mr. Peckman. I live in the Denver area and believe he is sincere. I supported his efforts and don't think he is a fraud.

Originally posted by elisabeth
Stan Romanek, a man of many words, and few dollars. He has written a book, MESSAGES, telling his stroy, or a small part of it anyway. Why does getting paid for writing this book make him a fraud? Becasue he is being paid?

I'd like to see some of these guys with a real job simply register a domain name, post their story, offer it FREE (god forbid, eh?). That would bring much more credibility to disclosure than anything they've done to this point. Yes, there IS something wrong with charging money for the biggest story in history. If they have experienced this, they should tell such an amazing story without thinking of making money.

Originally posted by elisabeth
Would you like to demand proof of this as well? How about what size underwear he wears

Just how old are you?

Originally posted by elisabeth
Negativity begets Negativity...start being positive, and see how your life changes...

Requiring accountability and honesty from those who have made themselves leaders in the UFO field is not negativity. It's the only "positive" way to bring credibility to the issue. They should be beyond reproach. I am simply trying to force their hand to determine just how honest they really are.

Originally posted by elisabeth
So I think WE THE PEOPLE should get back to the real issue, ET's are real, they Hybrids are a reality, and the Government is hidding many facts from us, now DEMAND it from the true source of the cover up, and leave the Messengers to do the work you are all to afraid to do.

That's the problem -- the "messengers" are tainted with their demands for money. They essentially say, "I have earth-shattering information that could change the course of history, but you can't have it unless you pay me $xxxxx. Please, something is dreadfully wrong with that.

Originally posted by Total Package

Originally posted by Sam60

Greer can release some quality information for free, such as more pictures of moths that he says are really "light beings".

That would be very useful.

What if he was given that "evidence" by an insider who knew he would go public with it... knowingly full well Greer would be made to look like a fool and there would be 1000's of people calling Greer a fraud and poisoning the pond with their noisy negativity.

Hey if I was trying to keep a secret.... and I knew someone was close to knowing the truth and spilling the beans... I would be attacking that person's integrity as much as I could and setting them up to look like a liar... so when he did come out with the truth nobody would believe him.... and on top of that anything he said would automatically go into history as "bull#" regardless of who says it again in the future.

That's why I tend to think anyone who is being discredited like Stephen Greer or Bob Lazar... are probably the ones closest to the truth..... lets face it if there are others out there not even close to being right you aren't going to bother discrediting their credibility are you....

I think your logic is reasonable in a general sense.

Unfortunately, the picture of the moth was taken by Greer himself & publicised by Greer as a "light being".

There's been a previous thread about some of the pictures he has taken & acknowledges as his own, including the moth picture.

Originally posted by rocksolidbrain
Whatever little information that is available in this field is already free. Rest is classified because it involves military data (that is not sold, so no question of it).

These people don't have any more than that, and probably don't know any more than an experienced ATS'er.

These people are selling pure entertainment, nothing more. The books, CDs, or seminars are just for entertainment. Its only gullibles who think there is any truth in them.

Couldn't say it better myself so I will repeat yours

Now then anyone wanna buy some cool Moon Pictures?

I'm not hiding anything and neither am I making such extraordinary claims and then hawking them like some cheap flea market vendor.

What has Mr Romanek hawked? His book, a music CD of his music? Every writer and muscian in the world does this. Why is it that you are upset with him for selling something he is proud to have created? His experiences have not all been pleasant ones.He struggles every day with health issues, mostly from his experiences. He has lived in fear for many years from unknown people, he refers to as THEY! He does not kow who THEY are, but has an opinion that some are government. the other THEY he refers to are the Extraterrestrails. Both have posed a threat to him over the past 9 years. He is only now able to talk to a larger audience, outside of Denver. His book has allowed him to travel to Minnesota, and Missouri in the past month or so. I for one am glad he wrote the book, it has opened up some doors, so that he may continue to do what the ET's want him to do. What do they want him to do you ask......To tell his story! That is all, simple as it seems there is a lot of stress that comes with it. Being called a liar and a fraud. He is learning from these attacks to simply bless those who fling the @#$# and go about his day. That is amazing to me that he is able to do that, considering some of the insults, threats, and critisism he gets for simply telling what he knows to be the truth.

I do not know much about Mr Greer, so I will refrain from further comments regarding him, except to say again he is working towards Disclosure...and how he does it is his business, and I will not concern myself with it, as long as he is not harming anyone, who cares!!! Besides YOU!

You have had 11 UFO sighting? Is anyone demanding proof from you? It does not matter if you are not making money off of this information, it just feels good to tell others about your sightings doesn't it, It is like therapy, to talk to other people who believe, and not be ridiculed for it. How is it different for anyone else, including Mr. Romanek to tell others about what they have experienced.

If you were contacted by the ET's and they told you that you had agreed to help them, even though you do not remember, would you help them, and humanity? If they wanted you to personally tell your story, to help humanity understand that "they" are real, and in helping people to at least question the reality raise the global conciousness to a point that "WE THE PEOPLE" can change the outcome of our future. I have learned recently in talking to Mr Romanek that the 2012 dooms day prophecy that many people are talking about is not a possible outcome any more. "WE" have changed that, "WE" with the help of everyone who tells their stories, and "WE" that listen and come to acknowledge the possibility have changed that. We are becoming the "WE THE PEOPLE" again. "THEY" the government just does not know it yet!

I choose to believe that, you can choose to believe whatever you wish. I choose to be positive. Positive begets Positive... Please do not give "Them" power with Negative thoughts, it only makes them stronger and us weaker.

You can also choose to think I am full of @#$#, I do not care. I know what the truth is, and I know that Stan Romanek is telling it!!

But I'm not sellingaIf they did, I would post a separate thread retracting my derogatory statements.

Why do you feel the need for derogatory statements? Try to put your self in Stan's shoes, would you feel entitled to some money after writing a book, about some terrifying experiences that he has now become disabled from? The work he obvioulsy put into writing it should be worth something, don't you think? What else do you have against him? Have you contacted him with your concerns, or your questions? His email address is on his website! I contact him often woth questions, he will answer them if presented respectfully.

Many Blessings to you...

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
I'd like to see some of these guys with a real job simply register a domain name, post their story, offer it FREE (god forbid, eh?). That would bring much more credibility to disclosure than anything they've done to this point. Yes, there IS something wrong with charging money for the biggest story in history. If they have experienced this, they should tell such an amazing story without thinking of making money.

Posting online for free isn't a sign of sincerity either. Money isn't the only payoff off for such characters. There's the narcissistic ego which some could argue is hungrier than their wallet.

As far as a book is concerned, I genuinely doubt the likes of Greer, Romanek, Burisch etc could fill a book without embellishment and fabrication. A website would be no different.

IRM :shk:

reply to post by InfaRedMan

I've never been able to understand the reasons Greer forces CSETI members to sign non disclosures on his 'field trips'.

simple answer for that...---> information control

it's actually a brilliant plan but it has a deceitful purpose.


and the Greer stage show hasn't changed one bit. that Exopolitics Summit in Spain he did recently is the same exact dribble as the last show only he flexed his muscles a little more this time

i believe he is in love with himself




[edit on 1-8-2009 by easynow]