Mom Refuses C-Section, Baby Taken Away

obviously the child was taken away because of mental problems not because the C-section refusal.

After all many states hospitals in case of extreme danger will do the C-section regardless of what the mother wants when is a life and death situation.

So just another case of exaggeration by the media.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by marg6043]

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by TheRedneck

 

As a poster pointed out above, her refusal to accept a C-section potentially may have resulted in fetal brain damage or death. If she is actually as disturbed as she is being described, she may not be mentally competent to make decisons on the child's behalf. At worst the doctor may have been trying to ward off a very expensive lawsuit, this is the reason why more practicing OB/GYNs are quitting medicine that any other group. My former gynecologist, who is nationally known for her work in insurance reform, has discussed her plans to quit because of the high volume of lawsuits in that field.

Well...like another poster stated in this thread, they described any woman who has gone through labor and delivery, most of them are screaming cursing out their partner and seem very irratic, on top of that, the state of NJ is well known for lying to put thier slant on certain cases. I know someone who is paying fines for an infraction (vehicle) That he never even was in the area to recieve and had proof he wasn't even in said town at the time they said "He was running from a traffic stop!" Don't tell me you can beleive they are so very honest? DYFS is the MOST corrupt state agency in the state of NJ!!!!

[edit on 28-7-2009 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by secretagent woooman

As a poster pointed out above, her refusal to accept a C-section potentially may have resulted in fetal brain damage or death. If she is actually as disturbed as she is being described, she may not be mentally competent to make decisons on the child's behalf.

Thank you; that is exactly my point! She may not be able to provide care. She may make a poor decision regarding the child. Where is the proof that she was or is any of this?

In the USA, a person is convicted for what they do, not what they may do. You may run a traffic light tomorrow and cause a fatal accident. You may steal a car tomorrow. Any of us may murder another human being in cold blood tomorrow. But neither you nor I am guilty of those acts because we have not yet committed them.

Despite the continual references to the C-section refusal, the following except leaps out at me (all quotes are from the court transcripts):

Where we part company is his discussion of whether V.M.'s
refusal to consent to a cesarean section (c-section) can, as a
matter of law, be considered an element of abuse and neglect.
On the record before us, we do not agree that the issue need be
decided.

My majority colleagues conclude that irrespective of
whether or not V.M. consented to the c-section, there was
sufficient credible evidence to support a finding of abuse and
neglect as to V.M. The majority therefore eschews any
discussion of the issue of c-section.

This says the C-section refusal was not the main issue. Despite the continued reference to 'other problems', these problems are not clearly enumerated. The closest I have found is this:

During her hospitalization in
anticipation of J.M.G.'s delivery, V.M. demonstrated combative
and erratic behavior including a refusal to consent to a
cesarean section (c-section)1. Despite the medical opinion that
the fetus demonstrated signs of distress and that the procedure
was necessary to avoid imminent danger to the fetus, the child
was born by vaginal delivery without incident.

In the hospital records, V.M. is described as "combative,"
"uncooperative," "erratic," "noncompliant," "irrational" and
"inappropriate." She ordered the attending obstetrician, Dr.
Shetal Mansuria, to leave the room and told her if she did not
do what V.M. said, she would be off the case. V.M. then
threatened to report the doctor to the police. In fact, at one
point V.M. did call the Livingston Police to report that she was
being abused and denied treatment. She told a nurse that "no
one is going to touch my baby." She continuously refused to
wear the face mask that provided her with oxygen and also
refused to remain still in order to allow for fetal heart
monitoring. She thrashed about to the extent that it was unsafe
for the anesthesiologist to administer an epidural. She would
not allow Dr. Mansuria to touch the baby or perform an
ultrasound examination. Throughout this entire period, V.M.
"was very boisterous and yelling and screaming at the top of her
lungs."

The mother was in LABOR for crying out loud! And apparently she is now being declared an unfit mother because she reacted to the pain of childbirth? I have seen that pain with my wife, and it is awesome. She as well had trouble keeping the face mask on; we worked with it. She had a very painful first delivery and absolutely refused to have an epidural. We worked with it. She almost broke my freakin' hand! I worked.... er, screamed... with it.

It is beyond ridiculous for any medical facility or professional to condemn a patient for the pain they are going through.

And even Family Services appears to understand the refusal of a C-section is shaky grounds at best:

On appeal, V.M. and B.G., among other arguments, assert
that the judge erred in considering in his findings that they
abused and neglected J.M.G. based on decisions that V.M. made
concerning medical treatment, specifically, her refusal to
consent to a c-section. At trial, DYFS asserted that V.M.'s
refusal to consent to a c-section was a relevant factor in
assessing abuse and neglect. On appeal, DYFS maintained that
position, however, at oral argument, DYFS suggested that the
judge need not have considered such refusal in reaching his
conclusion that V.M. abused and neglected J.M.G. DYFS did urge
that such refusal and V.M.'s later assertion that she did not
refuse the procedure were relevant to the issue of credibility.

There's plenty more; read it for yourself: www.judiciary.state.nj.us...

TheRedneck

C section has become the method of choice in the US, with us having many times the rate of C sections as most other countries, many frivolous and unnecessary. Unless evidence has been given that she is truly neglectful to any baby she currently has (if she has any), this is just another example of our government getting involved to remove patients rights to disagree with the current and profitable medical paradigm. Another attack upon our health choice and health freedom, just as they are trying to take away peoples rights to use alternative medicine, alternative cancer treatment, or refuse untested and unproven vaccines.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Excellent points, all very well put, too star for you!!!! That state is just a load of hogwash anyway, when TSHTF, I hope it sinks into the watery depths of the Atlantic and all the corrupt a*** HOLES with it!!!! I jsut hope all the innocent and sane that reside there will have already left it's fetid land, especially my relatives that still reside there, and many friends.

reply to post by pexx421


Yes you are right, C-sections has become a "norm", I deliver two children naturally with not pain killers of any kind.

Only was asked before delivery if I would consider a C-section if natural delivery was no possible for any reason.

I agree but only as a last minute resource.

But again I deliver both children in military hospitals.

But then again, my sister almost bled to death after a C-section in a private hospital and a friend of mine that I attended her delivery also hemorrhaged after C-section in a military hospital, I never knew somebody could bleed that much and stay alive, I mean blood flowing from the sides of her bed. in the recovery room.

reply to post by marg6043


That story of your sister is horrible
I do not understand why so many people choose c-section. It is not pleasant at all. It is a major surgery.
I had my own complications - but I had no choice to have one or not.
One of the staples damanged a nerve, so around part of my scar (which you can barely see at all) it is still numb....and sometimes hurts still.

[edit on July 28th 2009 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Actually she was on the phone with me because she was in PR I was in the states, she was checking out from the hospital when blood started to run while standing up.

The doctor said that it was some kind of blood cloth that formed after the C-section.

The first baby was born with the umbilical cord around his neck so an emergency C-section was performed, that is why the second baby was suggested to be C-section.

She needed transfusion and had to be opened again to find the source of the blood flow.

My friend was different soon after I carried her baby to the nursery (her husband was oversea) I came back to the recovery room and as we where talking she just lost consciousness and the blood started flowing from the side of her bed.

The doctor said that a fibroid tumor got separated from her uterus causing the hemorrhage and to think that I saw the fibroids when the doctor had her insides on top of her stomach during the cleaning after the baby was taken, I even asked the nurse what it was because it sure looked weird.

I had similar issues with a hospital, and it was the worst few weeks of my life.
Hospitals work hand-in-hand with child services, and I swear to GOD it is almost like they receive a commission for each non-minority baby they can steal from the parents.

To be honest, if the whole ordeal with the hospital didn't make me get fixed immediately, I would suggest having babies in the privacy of one's own home --- like mothers used to.

There is nothing wrong with having a baby in the bath tub with the help from a nurse friend, like the old days.

Anything that happens in the hospital --- Big Brother is watching....

It's almost like a "minority report" scenario where she was convicted of a potential future crime she had not yet committed. So she was ugly to the hospital staff.

I've been nursing for 30 years and have been slapped, punched, kicked, pissed on, spit on. It's not appropriate and it certainly irks those of us that have to deal with it (no combat pay) but you don't take people's kids away for their bad behavior toward the staff.

When I had my last child (10 years ago) at a military hospital I had a fairly non-eventful birth. My heart rate dropped to 30 and the OB nurse was ordered to get an EKG which she didn't know how to do. I talked her through it and interpreted the reading for her. The delivery staff was wonderful but the post partum nurses were horribly abusive.

They threatened to "take my baby away" if I didn't comply with their unreasonable demands. They insisted I watch a film on breastfeeding. I assured them that I had breastfed my previous 4 children and if they'd open their other eye they'd see that I was currently breastfeeding the infant I had in my arms.

Also, I'd seen the film before and had taught classes to new mothers so really didn't need to go watch their silly film, thank you. I was told I would not be allowed to take my baby home unless I watched the film. I told that particular nurse that I would throw her out the f'ing window if she threatened to take my child from me one more time.

They asked if I had a car seat. I said "yes". They then told me if I didn't have a car seat they'd call DHS and take my baby away. I finally had to threaten each and every one of those horrible nurses with reporting them to the state board for "assault" since I felt "threatened".

I had my husband bring a tape recorder so anytime one of them entered the room I'd make a point of turning it on in front of them to let them know I was recording everything they said to be used against them later. They finally got the point but I could hear other mothers in the ward crying and begging for mercy from these abusive, power mad "caregivers".

A good midwife and a dula (preferably one who is also a legal nurse consultant) is necessary in this day and age of birthing in hospitals. Never again for me!

I hope this woman gets the help she needs.