You have every right in the world to whoop ya kid's..PLZ start I am sick of all the punk's

Originally posted by muzzleflash
All of you who do not have kids yet think you know better .... SHUT IT.

Your ideas are retarded and i tried them and NONE WORKED.

The ONLY thing that worked in getting discipline was a good old whack on the rear.

No wonder kids are criminal scum to the max these days.

Fair Warning - Mess with my family and you will regret it eternally. That goes for you too .gov!

Hahahaha, we're not trying to mess with your family. It looks like you're doing a good enough job by yourself. And I don't really understand the gratuitous 'stay outta my business, dagnabbit!' dig at the government, but whatever. And calling ideas retarded is insensitive and immature, but that's another point completely.

Whatever. Have fun inflicting pain, fear and a bevy of other negative effects on your children. I'm sure they'll be model citizens because of it.

(But don't listen to me. I'm sure once I have kids I'll see the light and realize that physical and verbal abuse is the best way to teach or enforce anything with them)

Originally posted by mikerussellus
I swatted his hand, raised my voice, and told him in no uncertain terms NEVER, EVER, have water by a tv set.

I agree that if a child is in the road, it's ok to tackle him/her taking him/her out of the way if a car is barreling down on them.

A slap on the hand about this (rather than a firm pull away from danger and an explanation why this is dangerous) it more than necessary, but it is in the interest of immediate safety and can be forgiven.

But spanking a child for merely "misbehaving" is well over the line.

Big difference.

[edit on 7/27/2009 by Amaterasu]

If you don't punish a child for open defiance now, there is a very good chance they will suffer far more pain later in life.

There are exceptions, but they are few.

You break the child of open defiance before they are 3 years old, or it becomes manifestly and manifoldly more difficult after that.

Spanking a child means a little pain now, but it prevents a lot of pain for them and yourself later.

Start spanking your kids please. Kids are not born knowing respect. But they certainly know how to manipulate and rebel. So get them trained before three years old so they respect you and other adults. If you do your job you won't have to spank them after 3 or 4 years old.

Yes, I speak from experience. When I had children I did not take for granted that my parents knew all about raising children. I read many books on the subject. I read about the "pablum puking" "Marvin Milktoast" "bleeding heart" Liberal method, and I read the more traditional "firm love" Christian method of rearing children.

I opted for the more sensible Christian conservative approach because I love my children and wanted the best for them. Both are straight A students winning MANY academic achievement awards. None of them needed a spank after 3 yrs old. They are not rebel rousers, not gang bangers, don't hang out on the streets, don't hang out at the malls, stay away from trouble and trouble makers, and they are respected by their teachers and friends.

Study up and do some research before you start having kids. Make sure you and your spouse share the same views and methods, otherwise, your child will quickly learn to play one against the other with you and your spouse. When the child finds out they can't manipulate either parent, and they will get punished for open defiance, and that they will get rewarded for good behavior, they begin to behave very well, and very fast.

Never spank a kid because you are angry. Go settle down first.

Originally posted by orwellianunenlightenment
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

True that, the system is based on fear, subjugation through fear, all the way to the top. So many are "whooped" by the system. And I think preceding the fear is the belief in false image, the literally MINDLESS appeal to authority (and the authority inevitably wears a mask). I also think the fear leads to vanity, a looking at the false self conceived through fear, and the vanity leads to narcissism, a total entanglement in the false self, and I think that leads to lust, a giving up of self to instinct. The thing is, who programmed those instincts? The system itself. The system is a self-perpetuating butthole, and think of butthole in multiple layers. Territorial thinking could also be called butthole thinking, much like monkeys slinging poo at each other. We can be better.

Agreed, and I am shocked at the number here that believe that "whooping" is the "only" effective choice, when studies have shown that even children treated with dignity will tend to behave with dignity.

Children treated with fear-inducing behavior will behave more sneakily.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by muzzleflash
All of you who do not have kids yet think you know better .... SHUT IT.

Your ideas are retarded and i tried them and NONE WORKED.

The ONLY thing that worked in getting discipline was a good old whack on the rear.

No wonder kids are criminal scum to the max these days.

Fair Warning - Mess with my family and you will regret it eternally. That goes for you too .gov!

Well, I have a kid. And so I will speak up in defense of all of them.

You tried tickling when they were very young? You tried the golden rule on them? You tried not TELLING them what to do but saying they have a choice and here would be the consequences of some choices they could make?

I bet you missed these.

I am sorry you are cracking me up.
When ya 10 year old make's a fist and back's ya wife down in a corner daring her to stand up..
SUPER DAD TO THE RESCUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now son you see this feather..i will tickle you till you pee on yourself if your don't stop.

im sorry but that's a funny picture .

Ive seen children raised on both side's of this whoop /no whoop fence.

I bet you money you have never in your life been backed into a corner by a teenager have ya?
Because i know ya didn''t tickle ya way out of it.


I am not saying get ya belt and wear ya 4 to 7 year old butt out for little crap.
But a smack on the rear will will make them take notice..after they ignore what you said not to do 500 time's.

And a whooping is still not a beating lol
new age tree hugger's listen to me.....It is not abuse in anyway shape or form.

reply to post by mikerussellus


See you are making assumptions, emphasis on the first three letters of a certain word. Nobody is talking about being a best buddy. It is more like being a loving God to your children, sharing wisdom and lovingly illustrating consequence to action. You are right, if one does not have the knowledge to teach, one must use force. Also, in the event that a child refuses to be reasonable, there are a multitude of ways to illustrate consequence without resorting to abuser.

Originally posted by John Matrix
If you don't punish a child for open defiance now, there is a very good chance they will suffer far more pain later in life.

PISH.

If you don't communicate with the child about why the child is making the choices (s)he is... That child will not learn to think and to examine ther own choices of behavior, going therefore into the future ready to pop off on their kids and others who THEY think should be "punished."

It promotes a sick way of being, "punishment" does.

[edit on 7/27/2009 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by TheAmused
I am sorry you are cracking me up.

When ya 10 year old make's a fist and back's ya wife down in a corner daring her to stand up..
SUPER DAD TO THE RESCUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now son you see this feather..i will tickle you till you pee on yourself if your don't stop.

im sorry but that's a funny picture .

Ive seen children raised on both side's of this whoop /no whoop fence.

I bet you money you have never in your life been backed into a corner by a teenager have ya?
Because i know ya didn''t tickle ya way out of it.


I am not saying get ya belt and wear ya 4 to 7 year old butt out for little crap.
But a smack on the rear will will make them take notice..after they ignore what you said not to do 500 time's.

And a whooping is still not a beating lol
new age tree hugger's listen to me.....It is not abuse in anyway shape or form.

And your statements made me bust a GUT! No child of mine would find that choice of behavior advantageous, as they would consider my perspectives and their own choices of behavior before they behaved. And I never come at them as The Punisher.

So *I* will not have to worry about it.

Perhaps you started early being The Punisher? Never asked WHY the behavior was presented? Never made better suggestions?

I suspect that as long as they did as they were told, you didn't care much, and when they didn't, you just punished.

Originally posted by masqua


I've successfully raised two boys (now in their 30's) who are both well-adjusted and a benefit to society today. I didn't hesitate to spank them when they misbehaved and the immediate result was that I never had to spank them again. Instead, all I needed to do was glare at them without saying a word.


And, yes, I was, and still am, what you would define as a 'hippie'.

And you are 1% of the hippie's that admit it work's.

I was raised To respect your elder's...Even if there wrong!!!
It's called respect heck there old..let em think what ever they want.

There is none of this type of thinking anymore.
It's pshhhh old man shut up your wrong or shut up old man your ignorant.
Ive seen it and heard it with these two eye's and 2 ear's.

and in today's day and age it's going downhill fast.
America's youth is lost without discipline..and you can see it can't you.

One thing that is important to bear in mind is, EACH CHILD IS DIFFERENT.


Some kids are born with the sweetest, most respectful personalities you could imagine, right out of the box. Some are born a little on the flip side


Most are somewhere in between.


For my own history, I could count on one hand the number of times I got a swat on the butt as a kid, and I can tell you right here and now, I EARNED them all. I mean, really, I EARNED them.

My parents were very loving parents when I was growing up, AND I felt as if they were my "friends". I could come to them with any issue I had, and knew all would be well. But there were a few times that I pushed the limits, intentionally or not, and my mom and dad had no qualms about making sure I knew the boundaries on the way I SHOULD behave.


I am now a healthy, well adjusted man, and hold no ills towards my parents, at all. In fact, my mother lives with my wife and I because she is unable to live by herself anymore. I have the utmost respect for her, she does the same with me, because I turned out to be... a healthy, well adjusted man


My point is, that 90+% of the time, a spank is unneeded and just a lazy way of parenting. If a talk can do the same as a spank, do the talk.

BUT.. there are those other 10% of the time, where a decision has to be made, with no anger involved; it's those times that a parent has to do what's necessary for the betterment of all. Including that child.

Want examples? How about taking it into their heads one day to catch something on fire? To seriously harm another creature? Could go on with the list, but you get the point.


Again, as I said, every child is different. Every one of them have a different personality and needs to be handled in a different way. I have 3 children, one of them is severely autistic. He is handled with different methods than the others.

Why? because what works with the others, does not with him. Simple as that.


Unfortunately some parents do not remember their own limits, or will use the spank as the first step in whatever they do. To me, that IS wrong.

Teach empathy, teach respect, teach the golden rule... those are the first steps.

i had a full hott blooded irish mother......and let me tell you...it most def worked when i back talked to her....i most def learned to "duck" and "dodge"!!! me and her laugh about it now....she even broke a wooden spoon over my ass!!! and she has gotten nothin but compliments from her friends about how shes raised me and how ive been most respectful....now as for my kids im gonna leave the spanking up to the better half if its a gurl....lol AND to me if its a boy lol S + F

reply to post by Amaterasu


Children responding through fear will definately behave more sneakily. A system is created that must be circumvented, not a true path. They learn to split themselves into two personas, one that will not get into trouble, and the other that will, if caught. This teaches them the value of deception, of wearing facades, of lying until they become the lie itself, until they cease to be human. Children need to grow up balanced and integrated, whole beings. I have a theory that what is really schizophrenia is severely underdiagnosed, in the sense that we have an entire society split to the core. Integration is coming soon, however. I believe that with every fiber of my being. The only question is, what will the birthing pains be like? I believe we are already seeing some.

While we are on the subject, I'm going to re-post something I posted here about a year ago. Corporal punishment only works when kids are under a certain age. If you have teenage boys like I did, they will stand motionless and laugh at you as you try "whoopin" them, at that point you need new tactics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do You Have A Problem Teenager? If not then don't read this thread, this is serious stuff!

I want to share a story with anyone experiencing difficulty with a teenager in their school behavior. My two sons are 26 and 28 now and good guys. But when my youngest was in the 8th grade, he decided that school was a place built specially just for him, and that all the homeowners in that area were paying taxes just so he could go to school and socialize during class, smart off to the teachers, not really learn anything. Of course his theory was the teachers "just didn't like him." I got quite a few notes sent home, plenty of them I never even saw so I started getting phoned at work from the principal or vice principal about his disruptive behavior. I was a single parent by that time, so it was a challenge. One day I just sorta mindlessly popped off to him that if he couldn't figure out how to act properly at school, then I would have to take off work and go with him to show him. He responded with a hateful little laugh and said yeah sure, whatever. You can imagine the lightbulb flashing over my head.

Well I told him this about 3 or 4 more times and he just sneered at me. Push came to shove and I called the principal with my idea; after the dead silence and he regained his composure, he said yes absolutely, he had just never had a parent ask to do anything like that. Well as threatened I took a vacation day and junior and I headed off to school. I gotta tell you the teachers treated me like royalty and made sure I had a chair right next to junior in every class. At lunchtime I was like a celebrity! All the kids stared and stared and you could tell junior and I were the talk of the town.I felt just like a rock star. Junior didn't speak to me for probably 3 months after that day, but guess what? I never got another phone call or note about his behavior. Hey where there's a will there's a way. No smart-mouthed teenager should ever get the upper hand. I may have been a little rough on my kids at times but they understand why and are grateful now.

You have to teach kids to respect authority (and that means YOU too) above all things or they will spend their life getting doors closed in their face. Well hope this helps someone. It is gauranteed. Give them a few warnings first, then if no change, you have to follow through with your threat. That is the fun part anyway.






[edit on 27-7-2009 by Bombeni]

reply to post by Jomina


You are exactly right about the difference. Parenting is a skill in nuance, if done effectively.

. . . And I don't really understand the gratuitous 'stay outta my business, dagnabbit!' dig at the government, but whatever. And calling ideas retarded is insensitive and immature, but that's another point completely.

It's the liberal sissies in government that say "don't spank" "don't harm" like those two topics are synonimous. Kids were more behaved unitl Dr. Spock and that whole mindset invaded the parental group-think in the sixteis and seventies.

Whatever. Have fun inflicting pain, fear and a bevy of other negative effects on your children. I'm sure they'll be model citizens because of it.

Have you ever burned yourself on a stove? Did you do it a second time, or were you aware of the "pain" it would cause if you did it again? Please don't tell us how to define pain. Real pain is watching a child you love turn nito some animal.

(But don't listen to me. I'm sure once I have kids I'll see the light and realize that physical and verbal abuse is the best way to teach or enforce anything with them)

My oldest son, tried once to pull the "I'll call the cops, if you smack me!"
I asked him if he was smart enough to call 911 then he told me to F#-off. I slapped the taste out of his mouth and threw the phone at him. He called the cops. They showed up.

Once it was determined that I "open-handed" slapped him, my son, (still smirking) laughed at the cop.
The cop said, if I ever was tired of slapping him, he'd take over, and if that didn't work he had a tazer.

My son stopped smirking.

And soon realized that consequences result from poor behaviour. Won't tell you he turned around right away, but in a year or so, he did just fine.
Now he's going to a christian college (not my cup of tea, but oh well) and is respectful and embarrassed by his past behaviour.

Good luck with your future kids, but I can tell you now, I wouldn't let mine pay with your kids because they would most likely be undisciplined monsters.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

A slap on the hand about this (rather than a firm pull away from danger and an explanation why this is dangerous) it more than necessary, but it is in the interest of immediate safety and can be forgiven.

But spanking a child for merely "misbehaving" is well over the line.

Big difference.

[edit on 7/27/2009 by Amaterasu]

In the times I have ever done anything physically related to my kiddos, it's been in that kind of vein. The one time i smacked my daughters hand, it was because she was reaching out for a turned on electric stove. After pushing her hand away from it a number of times, and putting her in another room to keep her away from it, she ran back in and tried to reach out for it once more.

I felt at that time that a smack on her hand would be the proper thing to do. So I did so, telling her "no, that is HOT and will BURN you, honey!"

She stepped away from it, and has never tried to do it again.

Now, in that case, the thought in my mind was, "I would rather her feel a smack on the hand and the pain for a minute, than to seriously burn herself and have it for life".

That's the kind of thing I was talking about in my post above.

reply to post by Amaterasu


If i do something that ACTUALLY WARRANTS BEING CORRECTED, then bring it on I say.

If you read my statement and used critical thinking you would realize i mean it should always be the LAST RESORT

Originally posted by Amaterasu
PISH.

If you don't communicate with the child about why the child is making the choices (s)he is... That child will not learn to think and to examine ther own choices of behavior, going therefore into the future ready to pop off on their kids and others who THEY think should be "punished."

It promotes a sick way of being, "punishment" does.

[edit on 7/27/2009 by Amaterasu]

Sorry, you are wrong. Numerous books written by experts prove your comments are pure nonsense. You cannot reason with a 2 year old like you do with adults, and how many adults can be reasoned with anyway, let alone children?

Young, children do not understand the complex language and meanings that you seem to think they do. They understand reward and punishment. They need to learn to prefer "reward". Punishment in the form of spanking is an act of love, because a little punishment in the form of a spnking when they are young will keep your child from facing the punishment society dishes out through the criminal courts. It's that simple.

Open defiance MUST be "nipped in the bud" before the child is 3 years old, or it becomes WAY more difficult after that.

It depends on the child, the parent, and the situation.

Some children are unruly hellions (more times than not made one by their lax, inattentive parents), and some are angels (result of caring, attentive parents).

I was spanked, and turned out fine. I know others who weren't and grew up not to be.

Either way, parenting isn't perfect, and no one will have perfect kids and a perfect life. It won't ever happen, regardless of "to spank, or not to spank".

A vanilla existence won't ever be.