Why the planes?

Originally posted by SPreston
reply to post by esdad71

 

So out of your list of 266 people allegedly on all four 9-11 flights, only a total of 11 made the 9-11 Compensation Fund list. That must mean that the families of 255 (less the 19 alleged hijackers) of the people allegedly aboard the four flights did not bother to file for compensation, or they did not exist.

That kind of agrees with the fact that only one family comprised of two persons, bothered to travel to LAX and SFO to inquire about their family members allegedly aboard the four 9-11 flights.

Most of the families did not exist and most of the passengers of the four flights did not exist either.

How come the reporter at Los Angeles Airport only saw two family members of the alleged people on the three flights three hours later? Don't the airlines usually console the families of victims of air disasters? There should have been hundreds; even thousands of California family members and friends and fellow employees showing up for the victims of all four flights, and both airports were shut down and evacuated?

Flight 11 - Logan Intl Airport in Boston to Los Angeles Intl Airport
Flight 175 - Logan Intl Airport in Boston to Los Angeles Intl Airport
Flight 77 - Washington Dulles Intl Airport to Los Angeles Intl Airport
Flight 93 - Newark Intl Airport to San Francisco Intl Airport

LAX Evacuated (7:25 in video)

Why? So the American people and the reporters and the world would not quickly realize that most of the alleged passengers on board those alleged hijacked aircraft were either fictional or not dead after all?

So how come all these families and friends of these 266 alleged people aboard the four 9-11 aircraft did not show up at LAX or SFO before those two airports were evacuated and shutdown at 12:04 and 12:15 PM EDT?

September 11: Chronology of terror

This is between 3 hours and 19 minutes and two hours and 21 minutes since three of the 9-11 aircraft which their people were allegedly on, allegedly crashed into US buildings.

Bottom line is most of these 266 passengers and crew and hijackers did not exist.

Wow

Why would they show up? They saw their family members blow up on live tv. Everybody in the US knew that there was an attack and no one knew if the attack was over or not. people huddled around tvs and radios in schock and ccording to even you the airports were closed preventing anyone from getting in anyway.

reply to post by drock905


Well I don't know about you; but if I lived in California in September of 2001, and if any member of my family, or any of my friends, had been on one of those four 9-11 aircraft, as passengers or crew (about 266 persons officially, give or take a few), as soon as I heard about which flights had been named as crashing into the buildings, I would have dropped everything and headed to their destination airport as fast as I could. (LAX or SFO)

Knowing my family, they too if they lived in California, would have dropped everything and headed to the destination airport (LAX or SFO) as fast as possible.

That means we would have arrived hours before the planned arrival times of Flights 11, 175, 77, or 93. We would have rousted United or American Airlines officials out and demanded answers. We would have demanded flight manifests and evidence that our people had actually boarded those planes. We would have demanded that the airlines ensure that there had not been a mixup in the identification of the aircraft. We would have gouged every scrap of information out of those UA and AA officials we could have.

I am sure there would have been many other families and friends of the passengers and crew just like us there too asking questions hours before the arrival times; not just two persons total. There would have been fellow flight officers and stewards (esses) there too mixing with us and asking more informed questions of the airlines. There would have been many employees at LAX or SFO, who would have known the flight crews of the four 9-11 aircraft, and they would have been there too mixing with the families of the passengers and crews, and asking their own questions. Where were they? The reporter only saw two persons and he did not even identify them. Maybe they were actually two FBI or Secret Service agents arriving to order the officials to quickly evacuate and shutdown LAX. Where was the crowd of people desperately trying to get answers from the airlines at LAX or SFO?

This is what the airlines do for air disasters every time. They provide teams to console the families and friends, answer as many questions as possible, and provide as much information as possible. For every air disaster the airlines always do this. But for some strange reason, not on 9-11-2001.

We families and friends of the people allegedly on the aircraft manifest lists which have changed multiple times, would have been surrounded by many local and national reporters, as we arrived at LAX or SFO seeking answers, asking us questions and bugging us like newshound reporters do; not just one solitary reporter wondering where everybody was.

LAX Evacuated (7:25 in video) Only two family members showed up



If those un-symphethetic jerks had tried to evacuate us off those two airports (LAX and SFO) and shut them down; we would have raised holy hell and that too would have been all over the news. They would have had to arrest us and drag us screaming off those two airports, and that surely would have made headline news don't you think?

But no;I saw no headlines of angry families and friends of the passengers and crews of Flights 11,175, 77, or 93 arrested and dragged off screaming to the hoosegow on 9-11-2001 or the days after. Did you?

There was no legitimate reason to shutdown LAX and SFO at 12:04 and 12:15 EDT respectively, because a national groundstop (9:26 AM EDT) had been in effect for hours and 4,452 planes had been landed, and besides all the criminal action was on the East coast, not the West coast. By noon EDT, the only planes in the air over the US were US Military planes.

The only reason for the evacuation and shutdown of LAX and SFO seems to be the obvious lack of families and friends for the four crashed 9-11 aircraft; supposedly flying with passengers and crew on board when they supposedly hit their targets.

But perhaps you and your family are not close with other family members or friends, and perhaps you would not have shown up at LAX or SFO seeking answers. Most people would have shown up at LAX or SFO if they could have and if they actually existed as real persons.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Pure Hollywood fantasy, like it came from a really bad Bruce Willis script!

We have suicide bombers who drive cars, suicide bombers you drive trucks, suicide bombers who strap themselves with explosives, and infiltrate before blowing up. There's just no need to make it more complicated than it was!!

Honestly, I don't understand this morbid fascination with impossible scenarios. It is borderline sick....

(fix tags)

[edit on 28 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

Morbid fascination/curiosity is actually a healthy psychological state. It allows a person to question the grotesque.

As for why planes were used in 911... it's because AQ is frugal. Very simple.

Bigger question is why a selected group of Saudis allowed to fly when everyone else was grounded.

of course there is the question of why was every single camera/video tape in the vicinity of the pentagon taken and classified immediately after? the public had already watched planes fly into the towers, and its not like any classified documents that came fluttering out of the pentagon could be magically enhanced to read them off a tape.

too many questions about that day - we live in an information society and given the void of it from that day just leaves a lot of people wonder about certain oddities. of course it doesn't help that the gov't takes the "because I said so" approach to explaining things - that just garners more contempt.

reply to post by impressme


Ah yes of course! Big bad Bush and Cheney Corporation, super powerful enough to shut up THOUSANDS of potential leakers of the "inside job", and yet they couldn't hide Abu Grahib, wiretaps, SECRET CIA prisons in Europe and other countries, secret tracking of terrorst money, etc etc.

Wow, They magically managed to shut up all those in on the inside job, yet they couldnt stop or shut up their own soldiers or media or people working inside the govt on these other topics. They must have run out of special NWO guards to guard those covering up 9/11.

reply to post by GenRadek

Ah yes of course! Big bad Bush and Cheney Corporation, super powerful enough to shut up THOUSANDS of potential leakers of the "inside job", and yet they couldn't hide Abu Grahib, wiretaps, SECRET CIA prisons in Europe and other countries, secret tracking of terrorst money, etc etc.

Yeah, we are talking about 911 NOT “Abu Grahib, wiretaps, SECRET CIA prisons in Europe and other countries, secret tracking of terrorst money, etc etc.”

Wow,

They magically managed to shut up all those in on the inside job,

Seems to me they have done an excellent job so far. Do you see anyone willing to blow the whistle claiming they helped kill three thousand innocent people in NYC, just to be killed? No I don’t think so.

yet they couldnt stop or shut up their own soldiers or media or people working inside the govt on these other topics. They must have run out of special NWO guards to guard those covering up 9/11.

These people didn’t commit murder on American people, different agenda altogether, different event altogether. Stop comparing something that has no bearing of what happened on 911. NWO guards your real funny.




[edit on 7-8-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme

Yeah, we are talking about 911 NOT “Abu Grahib, wiretaps, SECRET CIA prisons in Europe and other countries, secret tracking of terrorst money, etc etc.”

Ah yes because everyone knows its much easier keeping thousands and thousands of people quiet, rather than 10 or 15 people. Sure.....

Seems to me they have done an excellent job so far. Do you see anyone willing to blow the whistle claiming they helped kill three thousand innocent people in NYC, just to be killed? No I don’t think so.

Right but they can't shut up people who have leaked information that is very damaging to both our country, soldiers, and President.
Hmmm can't keep 10 soldiers mouths from Abu Grahib shut about torture, but they can magically shut up and hide the thousands of soldiers, contractors, security personnel, firefighters, police, air traffic controllers, demolition riggers, pilots, passengers on board all 4 hijacked flights, the media, the "planted eyewitnesses", the tech support, those that carried it all out, etc etc etc etc, that would be implicated in an "inside job" of 9/11. Again:
Geeze, they couldnt even shut leaks during the Manhattan Project, and yet something like this they can? Wow, you sure are living in an interesting reality.

These people didn’t commit murder on American people, different agenda altogether, different event altogether. Stop comparing something that has no bearing of what happened on 911. NWO guards your real funny.

Oh no, I'm sorry, I thought you were saying how they can magically keep many thousands of people quiet without so much as a peep, or deathbed confession, after 8 years but at the same time they couldnt keep matters of national security, military secrets, and other important secrets under wraps, with fractions of the amounts of people. I mean I guess they did run out of those NWO guards, I mean how else can they keep thousands of people quiet?
Cause after all, do you really think they want YOU to know about secret wire-taps of YOUR phonecalls? Naw that secret information is not THAT important right? Or keeping allegations of torture at Abu Grahib secret, which would be very damaging to the President, Vice President, SoD Rumsfeld, Generals, Captains, Majors, Colonels, etc etc etc. But no, somehow they can can shut everybody else up.......... what did they threaten them with? Torture? Death? That hasnt stopped others in the past. You must not have been around humans very long if that is how you think humans behave.

[EDIT fix quotes]

[edit on 8/7/2009 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek


My assumption most of all the people who really did 911 have been killed probably by Cheney’s well known hit squad the only player left is Cheney and Rummy and Bush Carl Rove, Condi, and lets not forget Larry Silverstin, lease holder of the WTC. These remaing few will never talk, never! In my “opinion”, the people who blew up the WTC and the people who remotely controlled those airplanes and flew those planes into the WTC are all dead. So, really there is no one left to blow the whistle, as far as the media they print and tell what they are told to, FBI was used to cover-up the evidences that would incriminate the real perpetrators, That is why there is no real evidences to even support the OS. The only evidences that was giving to the public was only planted evidences nothing more.



[edit on 7-8-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by GenRadek

 

My assumption most of all the people who really did 911 have been killed probably by Cheney’s well known hit squad the only player left is Cheney and Rummy and Bush Carl Rove, Condi, and lets not forget Larry Silverstin, lease holder of the WTC. These remaing few will never talk, never! In my “opinion”, the people who blew up the WTC and the people who remotely controlled those airplanes and flew those planes into the WTC are all dead. So, really there is no one left to blow the whistle, as far as the media they print and tell what they are told to, FBI was used to cover-up the evidences that would incriminate the real perpetrators, That is why there is no real evidences to even support the OS. The only evidences that was giving to the public was only planted evidences nothing more.



[edit on 7-8-2009 by impressme]

Right right, and you base everything that you just said.... on........ what exactly? "gut feeling"? The "it just has to have happened that way" clause? James Bond movies? You see EVERYTHING you just said has virtually NOTHING backing it up. No evidence, not so much as a scrap, shred, micro-piece, bit of proof or even suggestion. Just assumption. And we all know what you do when you "ASSume" right? Well I wont be made an (insert snip here).

And all of this is what is brought forward as "proof" or "evidence". And then you push this as if this is totally true. Ahh but anything real produced, backed by actual facts, is screamed down as "planted!" But again........... with NO proof! Just ASSumption.

And uh, please be so kind as to how they managed to kill so many thousands of people without a soul noticing? This is not three or four or even ten people, we are talking thousands. You can hide maybe 10 deaths without notice, but 1000s? I dont think so. Again, this is not James Bond. You would need to silence so many people, it is impossible. Tell a secret to one person, its still safe. Tell 10 people, and you chances of getting caught just grew by 10. Tell a hundred people the secret, now its 100. The more people who know, the more chance of it slipping.

reply to post by GenRadek


I was trying to have a civil conversation with you and I did not ridiculed you nore have I insulted you. What is your problem?

Right right, and you base everything that you just said.... on........ what exactly? "gut feeling"? The "it just has to have happened that way" clause? James Bond movies? You see EVERYTHING you just said has virtually NOTHING backing it up. No evidence, not so much as a scrap, shred, micro-piece, bit of proof or even suggestion. Just assumption. And we all know what you do when you "ASSume" right? Well I wont be made an (insert snip here).

It is clearly obvouse that you do not read very well, I said:

My assumption most of all the people who really did 911 have been killed probably by Cheney’s well known hit squad the only player left is Cheney and Rummy and Bush Carl Rove, Condi, and lets not forget Larry Silverstin, lease holder of the WTC.

My “ASSUMPTION! “

reply to post by impressme


The only problem is that nothing you have said is based on fact. Nadda! Zip!

To claim a story or come up with outlandish ideas, assumptions, etc based on nothing, and then peddle that as facts, while ridiculing anyone who puts forth facts, and actual evidence which is contrary to the said outlandish assumptions, is crazy!

I apologize if I insulted you, but the way you have ignored, handwaved away, or ridiculed any and all facts that go against the CT version is telling me that you are not interested in the truth. Only the preconceived notions are noted. Hence the ridicule. I once was (believe it or not) a Truther too. I fell into the Loose Change crowd, the September Clues, AJ, and the others. I actually believed them, UNTIL I started doing my own research and using some critical thinking and common sense. Pretty soon I realized what a load of hooey I was fed and conned into. It all fell apart rapidly after that. Pretty much after that i was shocked at how good they peddled it. Today 5 years later, I still see the same garbage being pulled out and touted as "new" evidence. Same old garbage. The same fantasies that SPreston peddles I have already long ago understood as junk. Yet even when people who are more informed show how wrong the 'truther" side is, you doont listen.

[edit on 8/7/2009 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek


What is the truth? How does one get to the truth when most of the evidences is buried.
What convince you that the OS it true? What is the evidences that sold you?
Why is it that so many people believe we were lied to about 911?
If the OS is true, why hasn’t the government sued Steven Jones for spreading lies and false sciences?
Why hasn’t Steven Jones Nano Thermit paper ever been debunked by any Scientist?


[edit on 8-8-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by GenRadek

Right right, and you base everything that you just said.... on........ what exactly? "gut feeling"? The "it just has to have happened that way" clause? James Bond movies? You see EVERYTHING you just said has virtually NOTHING backing it up. No evidence, not so much as a scrap, shred, micro-piece, bit of proof or even suggestion. Just assumption. And we all know what you do when you "ASSume" right? Well I wont be made an (insert snip here).

Sound like you are talking about the OS doesn’t it?

And all of this is what is brought forward as "proof" or "evidence". And then you push this as if this is totally true. Ahh but anything real produced, backed by actual facts, is screamed down as "planted!" But again........... with NO proof! Just ASSumption.

Sounds even more like the OS.

And uh, please be so kind as to how they managed to kill so many thousands of people without a soul noticing? This is not three or four or even ten people, we are talking thousands. You can hide maybe 10 deaths without notice, but 1000s? I dont think so. Again, this is not James Bond. You would need to silence so many people, it is impossible. Tell a secret to one person, its still safe. Tell 10 people, and you chances of getting caught just grew by 10. Tell a hundred people the secret, now its 100. The more people who know, the more chance of it slipping.

Well if it only took 19 Arabs, then maybe it only took 19 Americans. Right? Right?
Your 1,000 people is only an ASSumtions!

Originally posted by LiveForever8
Also, i think its a statement of intent.

Blowing up bombs is one thing.

But taking something as brilliant as a plane and turning it into a weapon is a very bold statement.

Not as bold as detonating pre-planted explosives that would have increased the death toll by at least 10-fold.

There are many reasons.

If there are so many other obvious reasons then why don't you list them for all of of Mr. Self Proclaimed "truther:?

I will be waiting for your response.

Originally posted by nh_ee
Why the planes ?

Flying the planes into the buildings were used to portray an image of an air attack and was necessary in creating the shock and awe effects of the overall psy-ops or Psychological Operations of 9/11.

No they were not!

A bigger shock and awe effect would have had the twin Towers falling..without any warning, with no warning.

And finally, what a timely and interesting coincidence that our recent members handle "QweeQwa" , our resident 9/11 Commission story supporter happens to contain two instances of the letter Q, as in the NSA 9/11 disinformation organization the "Q group" ?

Wow!

You are really frigging nuts. Look above and reread what you just wrote. And you all wonder why your ilk is considered a bunch of nuts.

reply to post by impressme



Everyone has questions about 9/11. Do I? Of course. However, I am more interested in why the US Government dropped the ball with its intel on the terrorist ring. I am wondering why the agencies couldnt work together and cut through all the red tape that is prevalent in this sort of a bureaucracy. Why couldnt the higher ups remove their heads from their *snip* and work together in sharing information to stop a visible and real threat? That is what I am more interested in than hearing fantastic stories of magic explosives and magic thermites and drones and such "Rube-Goldberg" style plans that are so complicated, so intricate, so many places for it to go wrong that its amazing it was actually pulled off. And THEN all of it is found out by a bunch of college frat boys in their parent's basement, just by watching a few videos and pictures of the events while completely ignoring professional investigations done by thousands of professional scientists, engineers, rescuers, architects, etc, BUT at the same time swallow hook, line, sinker, and pole garbage by psuedo scientists, botched science, and manipulated visual and audio evidence (manipulated BY other so called "truthers".)

The official story? 19 terrorist hijackers used passenger airplanes as weapons of mass destruction against three of our national symbols. Hijackings are not something new, nor are they complicated, nor are they rare. We were not prepared at that time for something like this. 99.8% of hijackings in history were about ransoms, or "fly me to Cuba/Jordan/Syria/Honduras/etc", or release of fellow comrades who are prisoners". I can think of two where a hijacking turned into a suicide crash by the hijacker. People on 9/11 thought, "ok, we'll follow their commands, and we'll be safe. They'll just fly us to Cuba or something and demand money. Dont fight back." I mean you do know that pilots and crew are trained to work with the hijackers? Did you know that? How would you know whats up as a passenger when you see a person get their throat slashed? After taking control, its not that hard to fly it at your target and hit it. Simple.

What is the inside job conspiracy? A Rube-Goldberg plan, so complicated, so intricate, so outrageously difficult that it is beyond me how the hell they would have managed to pull something so grand off so efficiently that it fooled the world. Let's be honest, do you believe our government is so capable of running ANYTHING so complicated smoothly? I don't think so. Hell right now they just bungled the Cash for Clunkers program. Look through the past and see how many times our govt screwed up on SIMPLE matters. And you mean to tell me they managed all to work together perfectly in sinc and pull off something so ridiculously complicated and keep it hidden for 8 years? Thousands and thousands of people all shut up and kept quiet for so long too?

Do you know why the govt isnt suing "Professor" Jones? Tell me honestly, how would it look like if the govt DID sue him for lies? This is ATS remember? What would be the headlines? "US GOVERNMENT TRIES TO SILENCE PROFESSOR JONES!" "US GOVERNMENT COVERING UP JONES CLAIMS OF DEMOLITION MATERIALS", Etc etc etc. He would then be hailed as a hero, a martyr for the "Truth" movement. And the rest of the uneducated will hail him as brilliant and his work immaculate proof of inside job. Also, more realistically, why should the govt care about him? There are plenty of wackos out there who lie about the govt on a daily basis. Once you start putting your foot into a tar pit (ie the wackos) you will get sucked in and look like a bigger fool.

Why hasnt his thermite paper been debunked by others? Simple. It was never accepted or released into the real science journals. He botched the whole thing from day one. He's not allowing other scientists to test his samples, (which is a red flag). He only got his paper published in a pay-to-print magazine, (another red flag). He never submitted it to a real peer-reviewed organization that would critique and point ALL of the flaws in his methods, execution, and conclusion. As far s the professional scientist community is concerned, this guy is a joke. And if regular people who have some understanding of how the scientific method works, and have some experience in chemistry and physics (like quite a few here on ATS, and other sites like JREF) can point out all the flaws and mistakes in Jones' work, what do you think would happen if he released it to REAL chemists and scientists? If amateurs can shred him apart using basic logic, and research, he's as good as toast to the rest of the scientific community.

People believe a lot of things. Hence why we have a great site such as ATS. UFOs, Aliens, Secret Govts, Ghosts, Paranormal Activity, to name a few. Of course you will have people believe "we were lied to" on 9/11. However, what context is it in? What part do they think they were lied to about? Is it about pre-9/11 actions taken or not taken by the govt to keep us safe? Is it about the events ON 9/11? Is it the inevitable "covering our @$$" activity AFTER 9/11? What part exactly?

I believe more in the official story because A) The science is correct. B) The scientific methods are correct. C) It has been peer-reviewed by numerous professionals, both private and federal. D) It has been Cleared by numerous organizations who also assisted in studying and investigating the events on 9/11 and aftermath. E) I also have a pretty decent understanding of chemistry, physics, and other sciences, so I know wht they are talking about and how to interpret the given material.

99% of what is being claimed by the "truth" sites is pure bunk. I have found more twists, more tampering of eyewitness accounts, more inconsistencies, more OUTRIGHT lies brought out by the "truth" movement, it makes me wonder how can they sleep at night spreading such steaming piles of BULL****. A good majority of the garbage I managed to see through on my own. no help needed from debunkers. Only when I went to the debunking sites, ALL of my suspicions about the "truth" movement were confirmed. Everything I researched and debunked on my own, was confirmed in that same manner on the debunking sites. From that point on, I went from a truther, to an enlightened and better educated person. Once I saw through the hocus-pocus twists, lies, and deceptions, I thought, geeze they almost made me a sucker.

posted by GenRadek
reply to post by impressme

 

The official story? 19 terrorist hijackers used passenger airplanes as weapons of mass destruction against three of our national symbols.

Your silly WMD rhetoric lost me right there at the beginning of paragraph 2.

Or do you believe both towers were taken down by WMD mini-nukes?

How would your precious Al Qaeda terrorists have appropriated those?

WMDC
The Weapons of Mass Destruction Commission

The International Weapons of Mass Destruction Commission met in Washington on 30 April 2009 under the chairmanship of Dr. Hans Blix to refocus attention on the comprehensive recommendations of its 2006 Report, Weapons of Terror: Freeing the World of Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Arms and in particular on those relating to nuclear non-proliferation and disarmament to redouble their efforts at the present hopeful and crucial time.

New proposals to reduce threats
by weapons of mass destruction

On 1 June the WMDC Chairman Dr. Hans Blix presented the Commission report "Weapons of Terror" to the United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan in New York. The report contains sixty concrete proposals on how the world could be freed of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

The WMDC Report
WEAPONS OF TERROR

Freeing the World of Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Arms

source

To answer some of these questions regarding 9/11, you can watch the "Watchmen" or read the graphic novel.

911? Its all a joke. Whats a few thousands among foundations? They have killed millions of people with their wars to save billions. They had to trick humanity because 1 person is a genius but people are stupid.

Ok, so they got away with it. 911 was the excuse to goto Afghanistan then there were no WMD in Iraq but that war is still raging.

The question is how severe the next joke is going to be? The seriousness of it is that this is a necessary evil. The world is over populated and it's means of sustaining itself has come to an end.

They are fulfilling the ancient hope and promise. Man will survive once again.

reply to post by SPreston


SPreston, way to go knee-jerking that response. Of course this was nothing more than a deflection on your part by focusing on one phrase rather than UNDERSTANDING IN CONTEXT the whole thing. But then again, when have you ever read or understood anything in context?

I was not referring to a WMD ala nuke/chem/bio weapon. I was loosely using the term describing the the weapons used in this case. 3 large aircraft used as weapons, which produced mass destruction ie: three building completely destroyed and one damaged on one side. Hence used as weapons of mass destruction, and death. I thought this was obvious in my context, but you still somehow managed to fumble something so simple and obvious. Way to go SPreston, way to go.