Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers? Study suggests such a correlation

I guess I did a poor job of explaining what I meant.

I was replying to this:

meanwhile - some of us maybe are waiting for you all to take each other out - free up some resources for the rest of us

What I mean is that violence can't put an end to violence, as the very act itself supports and spreads violence. So the only way for it to actually end is without the violence. Thus, waiting for sides to take each other out isn't going to lead to an end, as the violent way always ends up winning.

So the only way for it to end will be when the people themselves refuse to do violent things.

Until that "end" comes, violence rules the world.

reply to post by badmedia

"Commander, please. On the issue of galactic peace, I am long past innocence and fast approaching apathy. It's all a game -- a paper fantasy of names and borders. Only one thing matters, Commander. Blood calls out for blood."
Londo, Midnight on the Firing Line

"It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past."
G'Kar, In the Beginning

And just because I like it:
"Oh, enough to fill a lifetime. So much has been lost, so much forgotten. So much pain, so much blood. And for what, I wonder. The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast terrible inbetween. But there is still time to seize that one last fragile moment. To choose something better, to make a difference, as you say. And I intend to do just that."
Centauri Emperor and Sheridan, The Coming of Shadows


[edit on 5-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


If it was a gameshow, you'd have won a new car. As it's not, I guess a little peace of mind will have to do.

reply to post by badmedia


Darn. I need a new car.

Originally posted by makinho21
Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers.

I’m a big fan of statistics but they have to be interpreted in the correct way, otherwise you can end up making assumptions about things that are not true.

I go along with the statistics in the study but I believe it could be pointing towards another interpretation or possible reason for the results. I think it might be a question of time! The various Christian denominations those adolescents belong too, may spend a certain percentage of their time doing Bible study, and Church activities, when compared to agnostics and atheist adolescents. This probably gives the atheist/agnostic’s a slight advantage in terms of educational study time. This percentage of time spent not studying, may be only small, but it is clearly visible in the study.

If past history is any thing to go by, then the great Christian scientific minds from our past, show that people who believe in a God, are not less or more intelligent, but are equally as intelligent, as atheists and agnostics.

The statistics in the study are not fixed or final, they are in a constant state of flux. The atheists at some point in the future might become a Christian or an agnostic. The Christians on the other hand, might become agnostics or atheists. So perhaps in the future, when those adolescents grow up, the statistics might just even themselves out.

Originally posted by makinho21
I find this very interesting, though I am in doubt over it's credibility. If such a correlation exists maybe it has something do with atheists requiring a better answer for their environment and the world around them than "god did it - don't question it because you can't comprehend it". That is my personal opinion of course. Unfortunately you have to pay to access the rest of the study. Has anyone heard or seen something like this before?

What about all the great Christian scientists (too many to mention) from the past and present... They new that “God did it” but they tried to understand how “God did it” and it did not in any way, affect their performance or their intelligence.


Check the history books.



- JC


[edit on 5-8-2009 by Joecroft]

It is amazing to me how often science and psychology looks for a formula for human behavior and skill and motivation. People don't operate on a formula and never will. There will always be deviations and mutations.

Originally posted by mamabeth

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by mamabeth

 

So, do you believe Jesus performed actual miracles then? That he actually turn like 2 fish and a loaf of bread into enough food to feed 5000, that he turnt water to wine and they he healed a paralysed man?

If you answered yes to the above question.

Please tell me. Why would an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent being, turn water to wine for example, but then not stop the Holocaust?

VERY ARBITRARY INDEED

Yes ,I do believe in the miracles our Lord did while on earth.

In my opinion,the holocaust was the birthing pains for Israel.
Jews from all over the earth are slowly making Israel their home.
Organizations such as,Wings of Eagles,are helping to re-locate
jews to their homeland.

If there should be another holocaust,itwon't be the jews.I think
the next one will involve the christians. The jews,never again!
I have noticed a lot of christian bashing on this web and others.

The monkey that started this thread is one of them.He,in my
opinion,is an agent of chaos.He spends too much time,effort,
posts and threads on topics he does'nt believe in.I feel his agenda
is to divide and conquer any religious theology anywhere using
this web and possibly others to spread his distorted views.

...?

I think you don't actually mean what it looks like you said, but I'll ask just in case.
You think Jews deserved what happened to them? They somehow were destined to experience the Holocaust.
If that is what you are saying, that's a little rough lady...

As for my being the "agent of chaos", it has a nice ring to it don't you think?

I can cut bread into tiny little pieces, and I turn wine into water all the time, though its sometimes yellowish
water into wine though, now that's a parlor trick!

reply to post by badmedia

Like when a religious person says people are going to eternal hell. They are not just saying that about hell, they are also implying that god is worse than people like Stalin/Hitler.

Well, God (as seen by his fans, yourself included) is worse than Stalin or Hitler.

He is said to be omniscient and omnipotent. He is said to love the world and mankind. Yet He allowed Stalin and Hitler to exist and do what they did.

What do you think that makes Him? Doctor Doolittle?

reply to post by Astyanax


Yet in the view that one posesses a immortal soul what is physical suffering and physical death?

reply to post by badmedia

As the lady said: so much for humour.

Humour is an aspect of intelligence. You've seen that wah? look some people get on their faces when everybody else bursts out laughing. The look that says: I don't understand. Poor oafs. Everyone else gets the joke but they can't, because they lack that particular form of intelligence.

Mindful of this, I call it no coincidence that the Devil has all the funniest jokes, just as he has the best tunes (and the best writers too - eh, mamabeth?)

ACK! Delete me.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Yet in the view that one posesses a immortal soul what is physical suffering and physical death?

I will break my usual rule concerning you and reply. The question deserves it.

My father went to his grave convinced he had an immortal soul. He died, nevertheless, in pain and fear.

Every Sunday the churches, mosques and temples of the world are packed with men and women convinced they possess immortal souls. Yet these same men and women appear to be genuinely terrified of physical suffering and physical death. Why else would they spend millions on diets, exercise programmes and the like? Why else spend additional millions on drugs, surgery and other recourses to relieve their physical suffering?

From these and countless other examples it is abundantly clear that the conviction one possesses an immortal soul is very cold comfort indeed.

However, it works just fine as an excuse for imposing suffering on other people. My poor mother was scourged and abused by Irish nuns as a child, 'for the good of her soul'. Abuses and atrocities by missionaries and Church authorities have always been justified in such terms. The pernicious doctrine that violence and abuse to the body is sanctioned in order to save the soul was used to justify the abuses of the Inquisition. St. Paul's infamous teaching on slavery is also indebted to it. These are the real and horrific consequence of the view that, if one possesses an immortal soul, physical suffering is irrelevant.

Religion is an evil. One of its most vicious aspects is the privileging of the seen over the unseen, the mystical over the corporeal. No better excuse for the inhumanity of man to man, or for the destruction of the natural environment, could ever be imagined.

I have used Christian examples because my own background is Christian, but the same is true, in my experience, of all religion - or for that matter, any system of thought that privileges the metaphysical over the physical.

[edit on 6/8/09 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax
Well, God (as seen by his fans, yourself included) is worse than Stalin or Hitler.

He is said to be omniscient and omnipotent. He is said to love the world and mankind. Yet He allowed Stalin and Hitler to exist and do what they did.

What do you think that makes Him? Doctor Doolittle?

Well, I understand why you would think such things, but it's really not the case at all. You'd have to see the bigger picture of things to understand, and I doubt you would do so as you won't really entertain the idea of god, that death is not real and the logic consequences and reasons behind such things on higher levels.

You will view it in a manner of this life being all that matters, and I view it as more like a child putting his finger to the stove eye. So I understand why you think that, and don't believe there is really anything I can say that would dispute it that you wouldn't dismiss as excuses etc.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by badmedia

 

As the lady said: so much for humour.

Humour is an aspect of intelligence. You've seen that wah? look some people get on their faces when everybody else bursts out laughing. The look that says: I don't understand. Poor oafs. Everyone else gets the joke but they can't, because they lack that particular form of intelligence.

Mindful of this, I call it no coincidence that the Devil has all the funniest jokes, just as he has the best tunes (and the best writers too - eh, mamabeth?)

I'm not sure what humor has to do with the reply you quoted, I was explaining a previous reply I made, and what that reply meant.

You don't know me as far as humor goes at all. Really, you don't know me at all. Those who know me in real life would laugh in your face if you described me as the way you seem to see me.

What tunes are supposedly so great of his? Are you talking about what people have called such in the past? Because alot of those old tunes that were called such have more soul in them that most of today's songs.

You do realize I consider Christianity to be a Satanic religion and don't belong to any religion? I just like Jesus and agree with him. As Ghandi would say - I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

reply to post by Astyanax


*withholds the obvious comments about your overweaning hubris and complete lack anything even resembling critical thinking skills*
I now remember why I had you on ignore a long time ago......
Anyrate onto the subject at hand....

The argument that having a soul would for some reason make taking care of your body in this existance a non-concern is silly at the very best, after all, to use a Christian frame of reference it is a sin to misuse what "God" has "given" you. And what you attribute to the effects of belief in a soul is rather bass ackwards don't you think? Death is a great unknown and while we may all have any of a plethora of beliefs as to what is awaiting us on the otherwise that does not replace the fact that we just don't know. Thus the fear of death even if an individual strongly believes they will continue.

And how do you get that religion is evil? Considering it can and has done good in the world? I am going to just take a guess that I will be getting an answer to the effect that the evil mankind does in the name of religion is religion's fault but the good that mankind does in religion's name is purely his own. Right?

[edit on 6-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by makinho21


Monkey agent of chaos...
I am a strong supporter of Israel and jewish people.I had a
jewish uncle once.
My answer to your question is,the jews did not deserve the hell
they went through during ww2.
Remember...mamabeth is watching you,have a nice day

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Yet in the view that one posesses a immortal soul what is physical suffering and physical death?

assuming we do possess such a thing - in what way does possessing an immortal soul make suffering less than what it is?

suffering is what it is

your thinking on this makes no sense to me

I wouldn't wish suffering on a fly for even a second - any concept that makes it possible for someone to tolerate the pain and suffering of others seems wrong to me

it's not complicated

Originally posted by badmedia
I'm not sure what humor has to do with the reply you quoted...

You didn't get the lady's joke.

You don't know me as far as humor goes at all.

Well, you've made at least one decent joke on this thread, so you cannot be entirely devoid of it.

What tunes are supposedly so great of his?

'The devil has all the best tunes' is a very old saying. A humourous saying, as it happens.

1. Are you talking about what people have called such in the past? Because alot of those old tunes that were called such have more soul in them that most of today's songs.
   
   
2. You do realize I consider Christianity to be a Satanic religion and don't belong to any religion?

As the lady said, so much for humour.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis



Hey Mirabilis! At last…we meet on a thread…

Originally posted by makinho21
(I - the lowly agnostic - am little more than a member of the studio audience )

I just had too comment on the line above, which I thought was hilarious and yet so true…in so many ways… I should know, I used to be agnostic myself but know I believe there is a God.

It’s a hard life being an agnostic, it’s like your fighting a battle on two fronts. God believers to the left of you, and atheists to the right of you. The atheists even try to group you agnostics in, with themselves. Arguing that because you are unsure that God exist…means that you don’t actually believe in a God and are therefore an atheist!

Good to see you around Spira


- JC

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
...your overweaning hubris and complete lack anything even resembling critical thinking skills... I now remember why I had you on ignore a long time ago......

Overweening, not overweaning. Overweaned is what teetotallers are.

The argument that having a soul would for some reason make taking care of your body in this existance a non-concern is silly at the very best.

Very true. My point, however, was that being convinced they have immortal souls doesn't stop people from fearing and doing their best to avoid death and suffering. Completely different end of the stick, you see.

And what you attribute to the effects of belief in a soul is rather bass ackwards don't you think?

No, that would be you. I didn't attribute any effects to belief in a soul. I pointed out that the effect you implied of it was spurious.

And how do you get that religion is evil?

By using my eyes, my ears and my brain.

I am going to just take a guess that I will be getting an answer to the effect that the evil mankind does in the name of religion is religion's fault but the good that mankind does in religion's name is purely his own. Right?

No, you messed up on that one too. Tough luck.