Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers? Study suggests such a correlation

how very true this could be. to bad intelligence isn't always a good thing.
ted bundy charles manson. to name a few.

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Republican08

 

Religion is like college. Its not for everyone.

I see it like this. If you don't like something then you leave it alone. As long as its legal then you should let those who do like it enjoy it.

As far as I can tell Atheists for some reason or another love to talk about God. I really don't understand their fascination in talking about something they think is ignorant.

One of the reason I don't buy into this test is that this is one more way for Atheists to try and prove they are smarter then the rest.

We all know Atheists don't believe in God. You don't have to go around telling people about it and putting those who do believe down.

Sheer covert attacking.

For an atheist, imagine lookin around you, and everyone is telling you pixies are real, and you don't understand it, pixies aren't real, you can't disprove it, but the majority say they are real, although they say sometimes they've seen a pixie and sometimes they've heard a pixie talk to them.

Then wonder what the difference in brains were, why should we teach kids in school that pixies are 'probably' real?

Its awkward, it's mind bogglin, but the numbers come in, mass believe in it, so it must be true, which isn't the case at all, it's true, but does the amount of people believing something, on that basis make it true.

I feel i'm diverting the thread though so I will stop here.

reply to post by makinho21


The link to the study required me to sign up and pay 31.50 to register. Besides that it was 6 chapters long, so chances are I would have probably only skimmed it.

The second link you posted was a rehash of what you quoted so there was no need for me to read it.

The third link pretty much said what I was asking. It all depends on where he got his test subjects.


Apology accepted.

edit to add- found the little link to the free view. Thing was small, guess they wanted you to think you had to buy to read.

I will skim over it later.



[edit on 27-7-2009 by jd140]

reply to post by Republican08



You believe there isn't a God.

You can't prove to me that there isn't.

A believer can't prove to me there is.

Until one side can prove to me they are right, I will be sitting back wondering why both sides are bickering about something they can't prove.

this is a study of adolescents, the study cannot really tell us anything about a correlation between IQ and religious belief. there is to much cultural noise around the subject.

teens tend to pick something to identify themselves and split up into groups, taking that identity on board quite strongly. often the kids with the highest IQ will assume their identity based on their IQ and incorporate only scientific belief into their identity. further, there is a culture war element claiming a lack of intelligence and belief are entwined.

in a sense, the study is culturally pre-loaded. for high IQ teens, often belief in god goes against everything they believe in.

reply to post by jd140

Yes that is what I said in my post - the dumb website wants us to pay for it. I could only link to that brief abstract unfortunately.
The first quote you brought up is from some religious website that has a few graphs and some info pointing to income as the number one variable in determining religious abundance - however, like with all things, the exception is the US.
The 2nd one is from that blogger guy at the guardian, and yes, he is criticizing the study - which is why I linked to it and provided some info. His conclusion is a little different from what the abstract says which is odd.

I don't know what to think. I agree with republican that - for myself - religion is like the 'easy-way' out. One of the other posters suggests agnostics maybe are the most intelligent - if this correlation exists - because they keep an open mind. However I would disagree...it's not that atheists say "god doesn't exist and I am right, that's all there is to it". For me atleast, ridding myself of a religious god is just the start of the journey - I have my whole life to try and understand the mechanisms and workings of the world around me, and there is no distraction from the supernatural, or a lazy escape like "meh I can't understand because it's divine". I think not having such a distraction allows one to grow and expand in ways religious folk just can't.

I would think no belief in god means one constructs his/her worldview on things that are logical and rationale - to gather as many true beliefs, and rid one's self of as many false beliefs, as possible. In doing so, you increase your ability to think logically in all aspects of life - it's like an exercise for building muscle; only it's brain processing. That's my take though.


[edit on 27-7-2009 by makinho21]

[edit on 27-7-2009 by makinho21]

Originally posted by makinho21
I have my whole life to try and understand the mechanisms and workings of the world around me, and there is no distraction from the supernatural, or lazy escape like "meh I can't understand because it's divine". I think not having such a distraction allows one to grow and expand in ways religious folk just can't.

atheism offers as many easy answers as religion. believing unconditionally what science tells you is just as lazy as saying "god did it". discounting the possibility of the divine based on belief is as stupid as attributing to the divine based on belief.

both techniques involve making evidence fit belief, not fitting belief to evidence.

I suppose it goes along the lines of if one is a non believer they are more apt to ask question, to ponder the impossible and to all around just think out of the box

where if you've been beaten into a christian or a muslim, you already have all your answers

reply to post by hisshadow


in my experiance, there aren't many people who actually ponder the impossible or think outside of the box and religious belief seems to have little to do with a persons likelihood to do either.

beaten into becoming a christian or a muslim? are you projecting?

Meh. Another BS study with parameters set to just such a way so that the studymaker's preconceptions stand supposedly "confirmed". And this is supposed to be science? *rolls his eyes* Sounds like so much self congratulatory BS to me or propaganda, take your pick.

reply to post by makinho21

If such a correlation exists maybe it has something do with atheists requiring a better answer for their environment and the world around them than "god did it - don't question it because you can't comprehend it".

I think the connection is more direct than that. Smart people quickly see through the obvious discrepancies in religious teachings and the way they contradict established scientifict fact, the obvious moral hypocrisies and double standards inherent in all religions, and above all the desperate insistence on faith that this and only this is the truth.

People whose minds are too dull to grasp such things tend to be religious. As another poster said, religion isn't for everybody.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by makinho21

 

If such a correlation exists maybe it has something do with atheists requiring a better answer for their environment and the world around them than "god did it - don't question it because you can't comprehend it".

I think the connection is more direct than that. Smart people quickly see through the obvious discrepancies in religious teachings and the way they contradict established scientifict fact, the obvious moral hypocrisies and double standards inherent in all religions, and above all the desperate insistence on faith that this and only this is the truth.

People whose minds are too dull to grasp such things tend to be religious. As another poster said, religion isn't for everybody.

Very well put

reply to post by LiveForever8

Thank you, and on the screen name and avatar into the bargain.

reply to post by pieman


Atheism doesn't mean "worship science" as you try to make it seem. Accepting science and research and scientific law has nothing to do with being Atheist, though there is a pretty apparent connection to education and Atheistic thinking.
Furthermore, rejecting the divine and the godly is a belief in the sense that we are responding to claims made by yourself (I assume you are religious here) and others who have defined the godly and divine and claim it exists. Our response is there is little to no evidence that such things exist so there is little reason to belief in them.
It sounds like you are attempting that often repeated argument (by religious folk ofcourse), "it takes more faith to be an atheist" or some form of that...
Which is more or less another easy way out scenario which allows you to not bother looking at fact or logic. We do not make claims that are unsupported or highly illogical - we simply reject such claims. That is very different from "belief in no god".
I don't see many offerings of the "cop-out" scenario in Atheism. If they are so prevalent, maybe you can share them with us.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Meh. Another BS study with parameters set to just such a way so that the studymaker's preconceptions stand supposedly "confirmed". And this is supposed to be science? *rolls his eyes* Sounds like so much self congratulatory BS to me or propaganda, take your pick.

When all else fails, slander and belittlement work quite well...
I think I made it pretty clear I question the study a bit as well, however, seeing as how it was quite apparent from our previous posts you either mixed up the information or didn't read it at all - I hope you went back and did look at the different sources like you said you would - again, I said the only person who had a predetermined mindset in this thing was you, and I stand by that.
And now you can get angry and say "atheists are rude" again and explain to us why Atheism propagates hate and blah blah blah.
Putting things down doesn't mean they are false. You could atleast present reasons and backing for your stance, but you took that stance as soon as you read the title and it has neither faltered, nor changed.



[edit on 27-7-2009 by makinho21]

reply to post by makinho21

Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers?

Good lord. Ahem...

Speaking strictly for myself, I really don't have much trust in the modern study group. This is an age of experts... or perhaps, 'desk'perts' is a more appropriate term. Poll and studies are not so often fact as they are manu'fact'ured to suit a predesignated end. I'm sure that with enough money and political clout, one could fund a study to arrive at a conclusion that a McDonald's double cheeseburger helps fight heart disease.

As for faith vs. atheism? In my life, I have not noted a preponderance of stupidity in either camp... but if I were to make a guess of where that sum might be found, I'd suggest a political campaign (of any denomination) and those armies of blindly devoted followers.

Here's a test for you:

One one side, you have a group of people who believe that the universe and all that is in it, was created by an invisible, omnipotent spirit-being over a course of six days.

On the other side, you have a group of people who believe that there is no spirit being and that the universe and all that is in it, just popped out of nothing to make a big bang that then, eventually, resulted in the very first flower to bloom.

Who's crazier? It's a personal choice and one that I think has less to do with intelligence than it does individual outlook.

Cheers

Originally posted by makinho21
Atheism doesn't mean "worship science" as you try to make it seem.

where did i try that? i believe that most atheists obtain their world view from over simplified scientific explanation which they don't really understand. this is a cop out, saying "science tels us blah blah blah...." while not having any kind of basic understanding yourself is a cop-out. it requires no worship.

Accepting science and research and scientific law has nothing to do with being Atheist, though there is a pretty apparent connection to education and Atheistic thinking.

what makes this connection apparent to you?

Our response is there is little to no evidence that such things exist so there is little reason to belief in them.

an athiest says they know there is no god, they discount all possibility. at least be clear about where you stand. if you say there is no god, you believe without proof.

We do not make claims that are unsupported or highly illogical - we simply reject such claims.

untrue, logically, all things have the potential to exist so long as we don't understand the entire universe. for an athiest to say there is no god while the potential exists is illogical.

the way you are talking suggests you don't really understand what atheism is, it is the belief that there is no god, it is not the belief that there is no hard scientific evidence for god, this belief is held by theists and atheists alike. lets at least be clear on what it means to be atheist.

reply to post by Republican08

I no longer looked at flowers as gifts from god, or his little beauties, but wanted to know there names, there classes, how they got there, why they were there, what purpose does that do to the surroundings.

I believe in God and my view of the world/universe doesn't stop at, "why look at that pretty flower! God made it! Onto lunch!" Many theists don't stop there either. God created everything with a purpose. When we study the world, and why things are the way that they are, we learn so much about God and his foresight in creation. Uncovering the mysteries of nature shows us the glory of God. When I learn something new, or experience something new, about nature, I gain an ever deeper awe toward my creator and his wisdom.

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by makinho21
Atheism doesn't mean "worship science" as you try to make it seem.

where did i try that? i believe that most atheists obtain their world view from over simplified scientific explanation which they don't really understand. this is a cop out, saying "science tels us blah blah blah...." while not having any kind of basic understanding yourself is a cop-out. it requires no worship.

Accepting science and research and scientific law has nothing to do with being Atheist, though there is a pretty apparent connection to education and Atheistic thinking.

what makes this connection apparent to you?

Our response is there is little to no evidence that such things exist so there is little reason to belief in them.

an athiest says they know there is no god, they discount all possibility. at least be clear about where you stand. if you say there is no god, you believe without proof.

We do not make claims that are unsupported or highly illogical - we simply reject such claims.

untrue, logically, all things have the potential to exist so long as we don't understand the entire universe. for an athiest to say there is no god while the potential exists is illogical.

the way you are talking suggests you don't really understand what atheism is, it is the belief that there is no god, it is not the belief that there is no hard scientific evidence for god, this belief is held by theists and atheists alike. lets at least be clear on what it means to be atheist.

First off - it is known and documented that higher education (specifically in scientific fields obviously) is dominated by Atheists.

Right from the horse's mouth...

The scientific community, above any other subgroup of the population, has become overwhelmingly atheistic. According to a 1998 report in Nature, a recent survey finds that, "among the top natural scientists, disbelief is greater than ever; almost total". Interestingly, the biologists in the National Academy of Science possess the lowest rate of belief of all the science disciplines, with only 5.5% believing in God. This decline in belief in biologists strongly indicates the nature of the cause, and the ability of the teaching of evolutionary biology to turn people away from a belief in God. Nature, Vol. 394, No. 6691, p. 313 (1998) Macmillan Publishers Ltd.

This is pretty old though - there is a youtube video from Dawkins talking about it (though I'm sure you'll immediately discredit him):
Dawkins speech at TED

Anyways on to your other points. When you say specifically we have an uncompromising acceptance of what science tells us, that to me rings of "worship" or something akin to following and accepting a god. If that is not what you meant than ok.
It seems you are speaking in absolutes for some reason - but that's not the context Atheists work in. That is what I mean by rejection of a god or creator that religious folk defined - there is unsuitable evidence to suggest such a thing exists - in a every day, graspable environment. Ofcourse I can not claim in absolute certainity that there is not god...but then we can't claim in absolute certainty mermaids and Pegasus don't exist either - or pixies or Sauron and Hobbits....that is the logic you are using, and that doesn't get us anywhere.


Here's pretty much what I think you are trying to say, but I may be wrong:

"takes faith to be an Atheist"


I tried to use the youtube Video option, but I can't find the vid number so I just linked to them.

Anyways, I am pretty certain - for me - that the Christian/Jewish God doesn't not exist in my every day life: in a practical useful way. Ofcourse you can posit god at the beginning of time and what not, but that doesn't really help us progress.





[edit on 27-7-2009 by makinho21]

I don't need a study to tell me that atheists are smarter than religious believers.
I have all the anecdotal evidence any man could possibly need in a lifetime to prove this.

Debate a religious person, and you'll see why.