Christianity - History's Greatest Scam

Originally posted by makinho21

Originally posted by whiterider
You can try to beat around the bush as much as you want, but it is true. These people will do anything to see their views established as "truth", even in the face of being completely mislead. Such a determined fervor allows one to blindly defend and espouse one's personal dogma when confronted by reason, logic, and criticism.
This is why we see people in positions of power - making choices that impact the lives of many, many others - curtailed to their personal religious beliefs; which can be extremely dangerous for those whose lives are impacted.
[edit on 1-8-2009 by makinho21]
[edit on 1-8-2009 by makinho21]

Right on, Monkey Jesus (great avatar, BTW)!

Religionists are always saying the same thing, in a variety of way, but it all boils down to this:

"You don't believe in our god, we do, so what do you care? Sit down and STFU!"

And I would have no objection to doing just that with people who want to believe in a god, or a bunch of gods, or the force, or who worship the Jolly Green Giant and his prophet, the Little Green Sprout....

Provided that they incorporate the whole Live & let live concept into their beliefs. ie, believe in whatever gods they like, and leave the rest off us the hell alone. Stop trying to get our laws to conform with your bible, stop trying to get all this young earth/ID jazz taught in science classes. You don't want to hear real science, fine - believe the whole planet is sitting on top of a stack of turtles for all I care.

It's simple, xtians. You're like some guy wandering around, swinging his fists in the air around him. He looks and sounds ridiculous to the rest of us, but hey, that's his problem.

But once those fists start hitting people around him, once he starts aiming them at people around him, then it goes from his problem to our problem.

And to be honest, a lot of us are getting sick of tolerating all these fundamentalist whackjobs wandering around and swinging their fists at everyone.

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by makinho21

 

Friend, if you knew Him, instead of just ABOUT Him...you would think differently....

OT

The problem is that you seperate the "him" from "yourself".

I'll just have to leave it at that for now.

reply to post by makinho21


Did it ever occur to you to post threads on topics you like? I read your
profile,you have a lot of interesting subjects even I like.But,nooooo,
you keep going on and on bashing religion,christians,the Bible.
Do everyone a favor and find something else to talk about.

reply to post by makinho21


How do u think everything came to be so perfectly? U think the universe created itself from nothing? That the moon and sun line up perfectly? That doesnt happen naturally. And why arent humans still evolving? Supposedly weve gotten taller. Buts thats it. Nothing else. If anything, we are physicly de-evolving. Are bones have gotten smaller and weaker. Assuming that all the science is right. In if it is, we will all die from global warming.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by ShadowLife]

reply to post by ShadowLife


So you have seen something to compare the universe to that shows this is all unnatural? Where? Oh and can i have a look?

Speak for your self on evolution, maybe you are not evolving... Anyway it takes millions of years for a tiny change its not a generational thing. Read this article here for a little more insight on evolution in the future.

Maybe the fact our bones are changing size/strength is to do with our environment, people live a life that is physically more convenient to us. Many of us no longer have jobs that are physically demanding. Now call me crazy... but that shows that we are evolving to our environment right? Just because we are not getting bigger or stronger does not mean we are devolving. You should really look up the definition of evolution.

evolution
Noun
1. A gradual change in the characteristics of a population of animals or plants over successive generations
2. a gradual development, esp. to a more complex form [Latin evolutio an unrolling]

evolutionary adj

Originally posted by warrenb

This video speaks volumes
great for when you need a little "pick me upper"

I love Betty Bowers (and I'm a gnostic Christian).

Originally posted by makinho21
I'd like to start off with a quote from David Hume - with regards to the so-called immaculate conception
"What is more likely? That the whole natural order be suspended? Or that a Jewish minx should tell a lie?"

I don't see how it's a lie when it was prophesied hundreds of years before hand that a virgin shall give birth.

Originally posted by makinho21
I think this basically sums up the moronic origins of Christianity - it has no weight or factual backing. It is clearly an amalgamation of earlier polytheistic religions (specifically Egyptian worship of Ra) and the virgin birth is not something unique - in fact countless other older tales tell of a similar occurrence.

The older tales came from the devil who knew that Christ was coming and would come through the woman to deceive people. Actually the older tales aren't older than what God said.

Originally posted by makinho21
There is nothing original or memorable about Christianity, and it spreads immoral teachings, hidden like a coiled serpent, within it's stupid book.

There is nothing immoral about Christianity. Love your neighbor as yourself and love God isn't immoral.
Why don't you go preach to the muslims in the middle east about their book being immoral and see how long you keep your head on your shoulders.
Also, I would be careful about calling the Bible a stupid book. This is what happened to Voltaire:
The French philosopher Voltaire, a skeptic who destroyed the faith of many people, boasted that within 100 years of his death, the Bible would disappear from the face of the earth. Voltaire died in 1728, but the Bible lives on. The irony of history is that 50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society moved into his former house and used his printing presses to print thousands of Bibles.

Originally posted by makinho21
Vicarious redemption? What kind of nonsense is this:

That isn't nonsense. We cannot pull ourselves up by our own shoe strings. We need God to help us and He showed His love for us by sending His Son to die for us.
Something cannot come from nothing. That means there is a creator.

Gday,

Originally posted by ShadowLife
How do u think everything came to be so perfectly? U think the universe created itself from nothing?

Yes, through natural principles we have observed.

Originally posted by ShadowLife
That the moon and sun line up perfectly? That doesnt happen naturally.

What?
The sun and moon do NOT line up at all !
What are you smoking?

The moon orbits the earth in an elipse, the earth orbits the sun in an elipse.
They are NOT in a line.

Originally posted by ShadowLifeAnd why arent humans still evolving? Supposedly weve gotten taller.

So, first you say we are NOT evolvling,
then
you say we are evolving taller.

You don't even know what your own argument is.

Come back when you have learned something about these subjects.

K.

Gday,

Originally posted by refuse_orders
Speak for your self on evolution, maybe you are not evolving... Anyway it takes millions of years for a tiny change its not a generational thing.

Sorry mate, that's not correct.
We have seen entire new species form in only decades.

Some examples :
www.talkorigins.org...

It is certainly true that evolution proceeds in small changes, so human evolution is quite slow to observe. But fast breeding creatures can show speciation quite quickly as we have seen.


K.

Gday,

Originally posted by texastig
I don't see how it's a lie when it was prophesied hundreds of years before hand that a virgin shall give birth.

No it wasn't -
it wasn't a prophecy,
she wasn't a virgin.

You never actually READ that story in Isaiah, have you?

Because IF you efver DO read it - here is what you will actually find :

Isaiah has a story about a king who needed a sign - God said his wife would give birth and the king's enemies would be defeated before the child grew to adulthood.

Sure enough, the wife DID have a child, and the enemies WERE defeated.

Got that?
The wife HAD the child right there is Isaiah chapter 9!

It is NOT a prophecy at all - the Jews don't see it as a prophecy.
Matthew faked that prophecy.

And -
she was NOT a virgin at all.
She was a maiden "almah" but the Greek MIStranslated it to "parthenos".


She was NOT a virgin, it wasn't a prophecy.


There is nothing immoral about Christianity. Love your neighbor as yourself and love God isn't immoral.

Jesus said :

"And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child: and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death."

"I come not to bring peace, but a sword !"

"For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."


Causing family fights is moral?


K.

Ah, individual verses ripped out of context with no attempt to address the intent behind the words.

Classic.

...and cheap.

Originally posted by Kapyong
Gday,

Originally posted by refuse_orders
Speak for your self on evolution, maybe you are not evolving... Anyway it takes millions of years for a tiny change its not a generational thing.

Sorry mate, that's not correct.
We have seen entire new species form in only decades.

Some examples :
www.talkorigins.org...

It is certainly true that evolution proceeds in small changes, so human evolution is quite slow to observe. But fast breeding creatures can show speciation quite quickly as we have seen.


K.

I was talking about humans...

Originally posted by Kapyong
Gday,

Originally posted by ShadowLife
How do u think everything came to be so perfectly? U think the universe created itself from nothing?

Yes, through natural principles we have observed.

Originally posted by ShadowLife
That the moon and sun line up perfectly? That doesnt happen naturally.

What?
The sun and moon do NOT line up at all !
What are you smoking?

The moon orbits the earth in an elipse, the earth orbits the sun in an elipse.
They are NOT in a line.

Originally posted by ShadowLifeAnd why arent humans still evolving? Supposedly weve gotten taller.

So, first you say we are NOT evolvling,
then
you say we are evolving taller.

You don't even know what your own argument is.

Come back when you have learned something about these subjects.

K.

And how have we watched the universe be created or any sign that it was self created. Cause i am pretty sure that something cant be created from nothing. Energy cant be created or destroyed. And answer this, dont just say "O yea well were did God come from? What created god?". Cause u cant answer a question with a question.

Lol. Have u ever seen an Eclispe were the moon blocks out the sun? They line up, they are the perfect size to distance ratio.

I wasnt saying we actually DID get taller. Thats just what they are telling us. Hence the "supposedly".

reply to post by mamabeth


...appealing to emotion are we? "don't talk about it because it makes us unhappy...and that is wrong!"

Right

Originally posted by ShadowLife

Originally posted by Kapyong
Gday,

Originally posted by ShadowLife
How do u think everything came to be so perfectly? U think the universe created itself from nothing?

Yes, through natural principles we have observed.

Originally posted by ShadowLife
That the moon and sun line up perfectly? That doesnt happen naturally.

What?
The sun and moon do NOT line up at all !
What are you smoking?

The moon orbits the earth in an elipse, the earth orbits the sun in an elipse.
They are NOT in a line.

Originally posted by ShadowLifeAnd why arent humans still evolving? Supposedly weve gotten taller.

So, first you say we are NOT evolvling,
then
you say we are evolving taller.

You don't even know what your own argument is.

Come back when you have learned something about these subjects.

K.

And how have we watched the universe be created or any sign that it was self created. Cause i am pretty sure that something cant be created from nothing. Energy cant be created or destroyed. And answer this, dont just say "O yea well were did God come from? What created god?". Cause u cant answer a question with a question.

Lol. Have u ever seen an Eclispe were the moon blocks out the sun? They line up, they are the perfect size to distance ratio.

I wasnt saying we actually DID get taller. Thats just what they are telling us. Hence the "supposedly".

You answered his response with a question...you didn't even acknowledge what he said.

The moon is bigger or smaller depending on where you are on the earth - it's a visible difference.
The moon is always bigger than the sun though. They are not the same size to distance ratio.
So perhaps the universe has just been around forever - in some form or another.
We say the "big bang" is the beginning of time and space, because that is as far back as we can extrapolate.

There is a theory of an oscillating universe, though, that says before the big bang it had collapsed in on itself. Is that true or false? Very hard to tell. Seeing as how there is no way to get past the big bang.

If "god" is supposedly forever existent...why can't the universe be. It'd be way easier just to drop the god label and go with that premise.

Gday,

Originally posted by ShadowLife
And how have we watched the universe be created or any sign that it was self created.

You can't tell evolution and the big bang apart?

Originally posted by ShadowLife
Cause i am pretty sure that something cant be created from nothing. Energy cant be created or destroyed.

The Big Bang is the creation of space-time.

Originally posted by ShadowLife
And answer this, dont just say "O yea well were did God come from? What created god?". Cause u cant answer a question with a question.

FFS.
Are you twelve years old?

You really think no-one is allowed to ask
"who created God?"
because you already asked a question?

In other words - you can see the glaring obvious hole in your beliefs, so you simply forbid awkward questions.

And -
YOU answered MY question with a question.
Hypocrite.

Originally posted by ShadowLife
Lol. Have u ever seen an Eclispe were the moon blocks out the sun? They line up, they are the perfect size to distance ratio.

That's not what you said though is it?
You said they "line up perfectly".
They don't.

Originally posted by ShadowLife
I wasnt saying we actually DID get taller. Thats just what they are telling us. Hence the "supposedly".

But we DID.
There is clear and obvious evidence we did get taller.

But you can't deal with the actual glaring evidence that shows you wrong, so you play silly words games.


K.


[edit on 5-8-2009 by Kapyong]

reply to post by makinho21


Yet we see emmaculate conception in nature. Not in humans yet *maybe* but we have seen it happen. But either way, doesn't disprove the idea that such a person existed. But you are after all allowed to continue your theme of throwing the baby out with the bathwater with extreme prejudice.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Alxandro
Jeez Op,
Why are you hating on God and Jesus so much?
Such ferver!
What traumatizing event did you experience as a child that has left you despising a subject you seem to be so consumed with?

Seems extremely ironic.

Should I point out the obvious? He can't hate what does not exist. However he can hate the concept or story!!!

Gday,

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Yet we see emmaculate conception in nature.

Another believer who doesn't even know the Virgin Birth is a different thing than the Immaculate Conception (let alone spell it correctly :-).


So funny.


K.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by Kapyong]

[edit on 5-8-2009 by Kapyong]

Why do people get so anal over religion?? I will never understand it. It may very well be one's opinion that people are being fooled by a "disgusting concept", but why do they feel the need to bash other peoples' quest to find meaning in the world they are apart of?? And if the answer is 'because I can no longer tolerate the moronic naïvety that is constantly surrounding me', well I think it's a problem that involves their own astounding ego, rather than the actions of everyone else.

I believe that the emphasis should be focused less on the matter of "historical and scientific credence" and be placed more heavily on the very basics that Jesus, in this case, willingly gave as good advice - with, I believe, to have been the best intentions. That is what most, if not all, other major religions were founded upon and endeavored to achieve in their most foundational of stages - practice acts of love and compassion towards your fellow human, treat them as you yourself would like to be treated.

I couldn't care less about the scientific order of the universe not agreeing with some part of the story in question. The purpose of religion can be defined as follows:

... a distinctive set of beliefs, symbols, rituals, doctrines, institutions, and practices that enable the members of the tradition to establish, maintain, and celebrate a meaningful world.

Religious Traditions of the World - H.B. Earhart

If you, makinho21, believe that Christianity should be judged on the grounds that it is not "original", that science does not agree with alleged history, then I think you are sorely missing the point.

It's true, many present day Christians are missing the point as well. Just as many modern day Buddhists are missing the point also by worshipping icons of the Buddha, when that is exactly what he told them not to do! Generally speaking, I think it's in bad taste to blame Jesus et al for the direction in which His followers take His preachings.
But, you see, it's their own choice. Who is anyone else to tell them how it is or how it should be when there is evidently no separation in the evolutionary advancement between the two.
You choose what you want to take from these ancient teachings. I don't believe in every square inch of Jesus Christ's story, but I do take seriously the pure and simple message underneath it all that was trying to be expressed.

I don't need a god in the way that millions have imagined God to be. But that is me. I recognise that me and my ideals are not everyones. I don't see the harm in standing up and arguing some constructive criticism, but this is not what you have done here. You are evidently emotionally biased on the subject and are quite ardently abusing the achievement that Christianity is. And that is exactly what it is: an achievement. Despite all of the evil you can think of that came as a result of the core teachings of this spiritual movement, there is equal good to match it, even though it may not be immediately evident upon first or second glance. It has brought change and transformation for millions across time and space and you sit there with your puny grudge against it's "immoral teachings" and declare it all to be nonsense on the grounds that 'it could not possibly be real because science as we know it, forbids it'?? You have a poor sense of perception, my friend. But, people will always see what they want to see, I suppose.

I leave you with the final words of the Buddha:

vayadhammā sankhārā appamādena sampādethā
all things are perishable, through vigilance Awaken!

[edit on 5/8/09 by pretty_vacant]