Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center

**feel free to move mods...wasn't sure if this should go under religion or not**
WASHINGTON — A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center .

Lungren's proposal drew only a whimper of opposition last week when the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now, however, Lungren finds himself tussling with a national atheists and agnostics group

Click to read more..... news.yahoo.com...

I am a bit on both sides with this one. If they are going to pay for it then maybe they can write what they want to..free speech.... but I am stronly against mixing religion with goverment..... Opinions ????



[edit on 7/19/2009 by onepissedoffsaint]

This reminds me of how in the UK you need to make a pledge to become an MP but part of that pledge included a pledge to God. This pledge caused some major arguments as it meant any potential athiest MPs would either have to lie in this important pledge or not become an MP. It was changed so that there is an alternative pledge for non-believers or those belonging to other faiths.

This is somewhat different though as you cant make both sides happy by the sound of it. It is your national moto and appears on your money but the seperation of religion and state is also both important within Christianity and according to your constitution. I always found irony in putting the name of God on money but there we go.

It is all well and good that atheists are not persecuted in our country as they have been at times in human history.

However, the use of our laws by atheists to abolish even the mention of God from the public sphere is egregious and a bit dangerous, in my opinion.

Our Declaration of Independence makes it very clear that our rights come not from government, but from "our Creator." Our Constitution does not grant rights, but rather, guarantees our rights.

When atheists seek to deny the existence of God in the manner in which they are today, which is to deny the source of our human rights, they diminish the validity of those rights and create a situation in which those rights might be denied more easily.

In summary, our Constitution says that our human rights are derived from God, but if there is no God and that is the consensus of our government, then government can conclude that the people have no rights because the one from whom those rights are derived is non-existent.

For those who would argue that the atheists are correct because of the separation of church and state, I would state, as many others have, that the First Amendment prevents the government making any law that establishes a religion or prevents the free exercise of religion.

The mere mention of God in the public sphere is not an establishment of religion and it could be argued that the prevention of such is in violation of the First Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

en.wikipedia.org...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....

www.ushistory.org...

I believe that the atheists should tread lightly.

[edit on 2009/7/19 by GradyPhilpott]

I don't trust in god, neither does the US government -- so it makes sense to remove these words.

Did we trust in god to keep the oil flowing out of Iraq? Of course not. We trusted in war, and ourselves.

Do we trust in god to stop terrorist from attacking us? No, we set up homeland security (not that I support Big Brother in any way).

Do we trust in god to deliver justice to the world? No, we use a system of courts with checks and balances.

Do we trust in god to do anything? Nope. Not a damn thing. Because god can't do anything. Neither can Zeus, or Poseidon. Gods aren't real. It's time to get over supernaturalism.

this is ridiculous.

as soon as this was mentioned to congress they shouldve returned with a flat "no."

we've got that annoying (and meaningless) slogan on enough stuff already. theres no reason to put it there. at all.

and to rebut the whole "freedom of religion/speech argument"

if you allow one group to put a logo, on what grounds can you stop any other?

would you be happy to have "HAIL SATAN!", "IA! IA! CTHULHU FTHAGN!", or "XENU, YOU SHALL NOT GAIN ENTRANCE HERE!"?

how about plaques describing the proper way to sacrifice a virgin into a volcano?

Edit: fixed a typo

[edit on 19-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

I think we should plaster "In God We Trust" all over the country. It's important the world see and always remember that whatever happens to the USA it's because it's a nation of Christians.

Preachers told us that the horrible things that happen in other places happen because the people are heathens (New Orleans for example).

Now we'll get to see an example of all the wonderful things happening to the USA because it's all Christians.

I say plaster it everywhere! Star and flag for you.

i want to know if there would be any fuss from the religious sector if i put something similar up, but instead of "in god we trust", it said "only the weak and stupid believe in god"

freedom of religion and expression right?
and it would cost more to fight in court than it would to put up...
and weak and stupid people have believed in things all through out history. its only making a historical statement.
so they should be fine with it.



[edit on 19-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

oops. sorry. double post.

mods please remove this>

thanks



[edit on 19-7-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

I think it's quite telling that religious people, Christians especially, need to be constantly reminded of their own beliefs. It's as if they're concerned people will immediately disregard their cherished dogma the moment all these little reminders disappear.

I don't need monuments, plaques, jingles or slogans on my currency to remember how to behave or interpret my existence. Clearly some people do, although I would prefer they keep it to themselves.

Whatever happened to not worshiping false idols anyway? Things like this would seem to me as bordering on idolatry, more so since it's such a big deal.

I observe this thread is posted in mostly by atheists.

Not every mention of God in a public place oppresses people.

When 15% of the population can dictate to 85% what they can or cannot put in public it seems like the balance of power is skewed. The atheists have the option to ignore any mottos on any walls they please. Writing on a wall is not likely to change their beliefs against their will. On the other hand, as Jefferson once said, "It [disbelief] neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

I do believe in the separation of church and state.

The article doesn't say whether or not the Pledge of Allegiance has the "under God" in it or not. If it's not in there I see no reason in the world why that would be offensive to American citizens. If it is, that would be more problematic. Still, if one doesn't believe the country is under God, they're not being forced to believe it.

I can see where "In God We Trust" is more troublesome; still, it's an expression of our culture. But I lean in favor of leaving it out.

It seems the religious people want to put their artifacts everywhere and the atheists want their beliefs to be imposed everywhere.

There needs to be more tolerance and some compromise on both sides.

didnt have time to read whole thread
but isnt it just a part of the history of america and i think if they didnt trust in god they maybe never would have became the most important nation in the world and if they remove this they are removing a piece of american heritage