ATS Homeowners, please read.

Desperate people fall prey to scams far more often then others. Unforutantely vultures prey on these weak people. I put you to bed now, I tuck you in. Sleep well fair child.

I'd rather just not work with any banks. I'd rather just use my common sense and not partake in this farse of a financial system (IE- enslavement: instead of working on a farm for shelter, you're working in an office to pay off your petty debts).

I'd rather work all day, take my cash home and store it under my mattress.

I'd rather save up my money and buy the things I need, instead of "borrowing" from others.

The sooner you all start thinking like I do, the sooner you'll realize life is not meant to be spent working to pay off debts that we didn't really need to take in the first place.

The solution is simple:

Save up for the things you want, and stop begging other people to loan you money. It's worked for thousands of years, and it can work for you right now.

Hey guys this is my first post but I feel it is a good post to contribute to. I spent 13 years in the mortgage business on all levels. I left the mortgage biz last year to become a precious metals specialist. (by the way. buy silver now!! It is at 13.39 as I type this and by the end of Sept will sky rocket.) When my old mortgage clients run into these loan mod scams I send them to this link. makinghomeaffordable.gov.... This is free government help. They contact the mortgage company for you (free of charge) which is better than a 3rd party company. As we know big brother gets what they want. Hope this helps. Have a hell of a weekend fella's!

[edit on 17-7-2009 by Bullion King]

[edit on 17-7-2009 by Bullion King]

reply to post by infolurker


When dealing with situations such as your friend's deal with Wells Fargo you must confirm everything in writing. Did Wells Fargo give your friend his $3,000 back? If you send in a payment you must earmark it to be applied exclusively to the purpose for which the payment is being made. If your friend sent in his $3,000 and Wells Fargo kept the money, then Wells Fargo waived any claim that the payment came in late. It sounds like Wells Fargo committed fraud against your friend. He should find a good lawyer and sue them for no less than a $1,000,000 in punitive damages, assuming your state allows punitive damages to be assessed for fraud like this. Yes, there are "good" lawyers. Not all lawyers are the greedy scum sucking bottom feeders that some of you seem to think they are.

[edit on 7/17/2009 by dubiousone]

reply to post by Heatburger


The mortgage companies and banks themselves are the biggest scam and fraud artisits in the nation! Does your bank charge you $34 o more for a $1.00 one day overdraft? That is undeniable graft and fraud, but they will tell you "the law allows us to do that!" Think about that for a moment. It takes your bank's computer a nano-second to process your tiny overdraft. How many pennies does that cost your bank? Google how many billions of dollars your bank and banks in general rake in every year for that kind of legalized fraud.

The misconduct of banks and mortgage companies and loan servicers has been solidly established in litigation over the past decade. No one can argue against it with any integrity. If they try, just stop listening to the lies.

It doesn't take long to run a Google search and find hundreds and even thousands of successful individual and class action lawsuits against major lenders throughout the USA. Run a search on Countrywide Home Loans, Ameriquest, Ocwen, Litton Loan Servicing, and others. You'll quickly get the picture.

Telling people to trust their bank and mortgage company is like telling them to trust their friendly loan shark. Granted, there are honest mortgage brokers and banks. But you'd best keep a close eye on your backside every second of the transaction. Don't place blind faith in any of them. If they ever say "trust me", that's the time to end the relationship, turn tail, and run for the door before they reel you back in.

They are in it for the money no less than those who charge you a $1,500 to $3,000 up-front fee. They just happen to get their fee in ways that are less easy to detect. They are not doing for "free" or as a favor to you.

If your bank or mortgage company received federal bailout money on your mortgage loan, why do they want to collect it a second time from you even at a reduced rate of interest and a modified principal balance? Just think about that for a moment and let it sink in.

[edit on 7/17/2009 by dubiousone]

reply to post by Freenrgy2


" * * * the justice system moves swift now since they've abolished all lawyers. Sounds like a good plan to me."

That's such a moronic comment it barely merits recognition.

You'd rather have your head sliced off quickly than have them be sure they've got the right guy!?

That attitude is always favored when you think it could never happen to you, and who the hell cares about what happens to others! In the America, it's the lawyers who stand between you, the judge, the jury, and your executioner.

You and others who spew such drivel would be begging for the justice system to move more slowly and screaming for a good lawyer when you're on the wrong end of the system. You don't have to be guilty of anything to find yourself there. You merely need to be on the wrong end of an accusation.

There are many good, honest, hard working lawyers who are in for the good fight rather than for the money. Quit watching some much stupid television and grow a brain. Maybe then you'll think twice before uttering and posting such stupid drivel.

You mean people are still buying houses in the USA!?
Now thats the real scam, believing that it's worth your money to invest here...

You do know you could get a much better deal on a house in a country that actually has a future....right?

reply to post by dubiousone


Wow, I got a reply to my 'drivel'. It was a quote from a movie and meant to be tounge in cheek.

And if you care to read my post again, I said most lawyers, not all.

Are there good lawyers out there, sure, but I've yet to meet one.

And for someone who didn't think my post deserved a response, you wrote quite a bit about it.

By the way, are you a lawyer?

[edit on 17-7-2009 by Freenrgy2]

reply to post by Heatburger


Why don't you write an article for you local paper and see if you can get it published.

It's not right to take advantage of someone who has fallen on hard times.

reply to post by tyranny22


tyranny
What you want to search and who you want to trust. The banks, the Government. Be real. I can tell you the stories that you wouldn't believe it. It takes the know how to protect yourself. I am not defending the scumbags. If the government wants it, they can stop it real quick. Or the society should get together and use the force. You will see how quickly the fraud disappear. There are some honest people too that would help you legitimately but if they get scammed further down the line, would you force him to eat the cost because they were trying to help you. I lived in Michigan USA for almost 40 years. Where I came from I made deals of thousands of Dollars with word of mouth but here in USA even lousy written agreement of $ 100/00 I cannot trust it.
It is not that lenders of thousands of Dollars don't loose their money. I was close to a deal where the business owner lost his business and couldn't pay the amount of merchandise he had borrowed in the country of my birth. The lender told him not to worry and offered him assistance more cash and merchandise. By same token I know another case that scammed a person for lousy 10,000 Rs. 6 months later he was kidnapped and demanded double the amount + expenses with a threat to be killed if demand was not met in so many days. Guess what the man got the money in 3 days but negotiations were made to lower the demand. This is how mafia do it. They don't resolve the dispute in courts. My mother in law a US naturalized citizen touted once that she has laws in this country. She was a retiree living on pension. She had received a credit card in mail unsolicited in 1994. She had made a mistake using it for lousy $7.49 at a Gas Station which she paid it in time. Not only that but she was paying $ 40/00 every month for nothing. But that action activated the card.In 2001 she was in trouble. The previous bank was bought by Bank One in 1999 and my Mother in law was getting charges for unpaid bills. She died of these worries even though I got Involved asked the bank to explain me the basis for their charges. Since they couldn't explain, they resorted to scumbag tactics. By contacting an attorney he told me it is better to pay the balance of $2500/00 than to hire him. I took the case on my own to the Federal Government. The end result was that this is old case and they closed the case. How can it be old when they were still charging the account. I can tell you a lot of stories. In this country crooks are dime a dozen. You have to be smart enough to find some one who can honestly help you. The government itself is crook. In many countries an old house, you can buy it cheap vs new homes. But in USA the value of homes keeps going up for Tax purposes. Why don't we get rid of Cities and manage necessities on volunteer basis. That way we wouldn't have to pay property taxes which is a major part of mortgage. Even the property values dropped but my home tax went up. How can they explain it. They are the authority whether you like it or not. I asked the assessor if he would buy my home for that money. The answer was, we are not in buying homes. That was about 15 years ago. At least retirees should be exempt from property taxes.

[edit on 17-7-2009 by charlie0]

I believe Obama wanted to stop this credit card crap, Senator Dodd from CT was trying to get a bill passed. Obama's efforts were stunted, and some baloney bill was passed.

Instead of giving money that we don't have to the greedy corupt banks that got us into this mess, the gov. should have just wiped off a substantial amount from the balance owed on mortgages. For instance, if I owe $300,000 on my mortgage the gov should have just lessened it to $200,000 and then not tax anyone for at least one year: no income tax, no sales tax.

This # started with greatly inflated property values instigated and perpetuated by banks. Some of us could indeed afford what we bought back in 2003, but then to have your investment decay at such incredible rate? Mortgage = $380,000 in 2003, home value = $200,000 in 2008.

That was a huge bank scam and they got called on it, but then our gov. bails out the crooks who caused it and leave us to ourselves!

What If we all got together to scam the banks? If enough people signed on we could do it!

Lets all create a corporation, easy to do. Get corporate credit cards, chage the # out of them and claim bankruptcy.

Big companies do this everyday. Get enough people on board = a big company. You don't need any real value in your business. Big corp crooks get away with it everyday and profit immensely.

reply to post by DaddyBare

Depends on what they're going for. In Obama's program, the rate is only good for so long, but if we personally modify the loan it is permanent.

Granted their could be a payment increase if their taxes and insurance are escrowed, but that's out of our control, and it's usually not that much anyway.

reply to post by Heatburger


I completely agree with you. I know that the banks 'generally' do try to help people out when it is in their best interest. However, we get this sticky situations. You see, I have a close friend that makes just above what Flagstar (their holder) considers the level for any type of need. That's just 52k.

I don't get this. When he purchased the home everything was based off of his gross. Okay, that's another issue right there. However, he doesn't take home 52k. Living in Ohio he is lucky, after all taxes and his health care expenses, to take home 30k a year. Yet the rescue programs look only at the 52k.

He has 3 kids and a wife and a family member who is disabled and cannot work that he is supporting. Of course the family member is not blood related so he can't claim him as a dependant. That's besides the point. The point is that the way things are right now with costs for energy and food (gas is back down again but who knows where that is ever going to end up), he barely makes enough to pay the mortgage he was told he could afford.

Okay, it's his fault for not really thinking things through but I cannot blame the guy for trying to buy a home for his family.

What do people like this do when they are falling behind each month? He is now filing for bankruptcy as he has done everything he can to try and cut his monthly expenses. He has voluntarily returned his most expensive vehicle but still owes a ton. He did it because he didn't want to screw the bank over who gave him the loan in the first place.

Yet, when he approaches the bank they say he doesn't qualify for any help. Then he can apply for help but it's a different process and there is just no guarantee of help through that conduit. Oh well. The banks aren't all out there to help. I just thought that when a home that was purchased for $142k is valued at less than $120k now in a market where the last house to sell was in auction for about $40k less than what was owed that the banks would do WHATEVER they could to keep people in their homes. Even consider 6 to 12 months deferment to allow poeple to build up a cushion until hopefully this economy swings back into motion.

Either way, I appreciate you coming forward with this. I had to convince him to avoid a scam with a company in San Fanscisco. They had him apply and everything. Talked to him and said that the attorney fees would be $24.95. Well, they said it like that. I told him that there wasn't a chance in hell that it was 25 bucks. Turns out that after all is said he asked for clarification and they said that indeed it was $2495. What a scam!

So yes, you can try to talk to your bank but be ready to be turned down or have to fight for what you want. They want to get as much as they can from the deal too because after all they are there to make money.

reply to post by Freenrgy2


Well, I take back those portions of my rant that are insulting to you. I did not get from your post that it was tongue-in-cheek.

You ask "are you a lawyer?" The problem with that question is that it asks me to put myself in a little box. What I do to pay the bills will remain private. Whether I practice law, medicine, or any other profession or calling does not define who I am. Neither my essence, nor yours, nor anyone else's is defined by what we do to earn a living. Granted, many people like to be thought of that way. I don't.

Neither I nor you nor anyone else are the thing that we do. Let's not assign these limiting labels to others because all that really does is fool you into attaching all the assumptions, biases, and prejudices that you associate with that label to that person. It creates the illusion in your mind that you know far more about the labeled person than you could possibly know. They become a thing, an item that belongs to a generilzed catgory, rather than an individual.

I know many lawyers who work hard and for woefully inadequate compensation in the effort to win justice of the little guy and gal.

I also know many people in the healing professions, in the construction trades, and in the tech field, and other areas.

But whether I'm in law, medicine, or something else is really beside the point. Would you agree?

[edit on 7/17/2009 by dubiousone]

As the saying goes "Theres a sucker born every minute"

Its the same fools that took out barely sustainable finanance in the boom that now have the lazy attitude of throwing (borrowed) money at a problem, rather than find out how to solve it themselves...I did and it aint hard to do, just requires dilligence and hard study to weave your way through the laws and statutes.

If I had the finer financial knowhow, I'd be scamming these sheeple left right and centre in just the same way...why work hard for a living when you can work smart and have a fool hand over their cash for a service that they could get for free...I have no sympathy for the suckers, aint capitalism a bitch when it turns sour eh?

[edit on 17-7-2009 by Taikonaut]

Well, I just want to add that my dealings with my mortgage company seem to have been better than what I am reading here. I have a mortgage through Citi Mortgage and I fell behind a little bit. In dealing with them directly and honestly, it took a few months, but I got my mortgage payments lowered and the past due amount deferred to the end of the mortgage. And I am not one of the apparantly many people who feels entitled or that circumstances in their life are everyone elses fault - I was stupid and spent more than I had at Christmas and got behind. No one elses fault.

That seems to be where the real problem lies with the whole mortgage crisis. Not Bush, not Obama, not the house or senate. The "bailouts" certainly made things a hundred times worse, but the problem began by Americans and their stupid, selfish, impatient spending. We all need stuff right now and don't have the money so we get it on credit. We are too vain to live in the smaller house we can afford, so we get loans with an ARM for houses way beyond our income levels and then we have the gall to act surprised when the rate adjustment happens with our mortgage. Then they think that someone else owes them when they realize that they have more bills than income.

Personally, I have no credit cards. If I can't afford it with cash, I either save up or go without. Although I certainly do not have stellar credit, I refused to go with an arm when I bought my house in 2002 - even though my fixed rate was more of a monthly payment at the time. I'm bright enough to know that adjustable rate mortgages will always adjust up.

This whole mess is due to the impatience and feelings of entitlement by Americans.

As one who has beeen in the construction business for more than 25 years, let me add that the companies that offer to roll their fee into the loan and also give you some cash out of the deal are to be avoided.
I had one fellow offer me a mortgage, bragging that he could get a dog a mortgage.
I took my business elsewhere, as that kind of thinking got the industry in this mess.

What makes this interesting is that our local news station have been promoting such services to people that get behind on home payments. Thanks OP.

I'll contribute a flag. Great thread!

Since you work in the mortgage industry, I'd like to get some 'insider' views on the reverse mortgage thing. I have been noticing that it appears the commercials for this are on the increase lately. As I understand the deal, you take put a mortgage on your home equity, but instead of drawing a lump sum and making payments monthly, you draw payments monthly until you die, at which point your heirs can either pay off the mortgage in full (lump sum) or the property reverts to the lender. I also understand that should the property value fall or you live longer than expected, the payments will stop (although I believe the property is still yours until death).

It sounds to me like a good way to separate homeowners families from their land, especially at a time when property values are either crumbling or shaky at best. Maybe it's just the conspiracist in me, but if I were trying to make sure a coming collapse didn't wipe me out, I would prefer to have land over cash... cash can become worthless, but supply and demand mean that land will always have value.

Anyway, kudos for your concern for others and my best wishes in getting your message out. I'll second the advise about a letter to the editor, or perhaps you should try to call in on Dave Ramsey's talk show. It's not the most listened to out there, but it is national exposure.

TheRedneck