The old caves of J. Moricz + the failure: von Däniken??

The following story is about a South American who found a gigantic cave complex in Ecuador with amazing objects in it, and the failure of von Däniken.
It is a long story so I will try to make some translations from different site's to get an overview of it.

Ancient underground tunnel complexes from Ecuador to Peru
We must ask again, would the cities (the golden city) where Colonel Fawcett talked about or the cities that Tatunca Nara mentioned exist?
Would the story of the underground tunnel complexes that many towns are connected to, and where Indians still use it (and would defend) to be true?
It is a very long and detailed story that he explain in two weeks time to Karl Brugger. That's not nothing.
We may even argue that no one would make a expedition (also not with a guide as Tatunca Nara) to an ordinary old city with a few tunnels, where perhaps some Indians would live.

But still the story of the tunnel complexes is very interesting. Because this type of tunnel systems is real.
Erich von Däniken told in 1973 in his book "The Gold of the Gods", that he was in a tunnel complex in Ecuador and that he made photographs of it.
He said that the Hungarian Argentinean Juan Móricz , who did found the tunnels, took the ownership of it through a notary in 1969.
This is documented by certificates and signatures.
Móricz met Erich von Däniken in 1972, and took him to the place where he was given a tour. This was strange enough deneid later by Móricz himself, to the German press when they were asking about this.
(More of this later ).

von Däniken wrote:
For me it is the most incredible, improbable story of the century. It could be a science fiction story, if I do not had seen themselves and photographed them. I saw it with my own eyes. It is not a dream or fantasy, it is the reality. Under the South American continent is a giant tunnel system, when and who did it, we don't know.
It is very deep under the earth and is several thousand kilometers long. In Peru and Ecuador were hundreds of kilometers tunnel already measured. And that is just the beginning of something the world does not know about it.

They went to a beautiful cave room with a huge land area measuring 110 by 130 meters. In the middle of the room stands a table with "seven chairs".
These chairs are not made of stone or wood. They feel not as rock, says Móricz.
They feel as 'self-tempered plastic, he said. The library metals are also in this great hall. It consists of metal plates and metal sheets, which are only a few millimeters thick. These are as bounded sheets of a giant Folia events. It shows each page described in a strange characters, bears stamps and is equally as with a machine printed.
Erich von Däniken said that Móricz in that time have not been able to count the number of "pages" of its metal library book, but he estimated it at a few thousand.
Who has created this library, remains a mystery.
This great unknown and his helpers did know not only the technique to make so much metal sheets in a determined format, but they known also characters which they could use to tell something important to people in a distant future, concluded von Däniken.
Furthermore he said that the walls and corridors of the tunnel system are bald. There are no reliefs or paintings. Instead, here are many stone figures that you stumble over at every step,as he noted. There is also a stone plate, where a figure of a dinosaur in is engraved. (More of this later)

Some interesting photos of the interior and of the area after the entrance part of the system were made. There is even a picture of a strange "stone skeleton".



Erich Däniken and Juan Moriczcal

Juan Móricz died in 1991. Yet there was still the "unknown guide" where Móricz nothing wanted to tell about to Der Spiegel in 1973. Who was ultimately this guide? After the death of Juan Móricz, the before mentioned Stan Hall would search for this unknown guide. He had nothing but a single name for hands "Petronio Jaramillo".
According to Hall, this was a problem, because there are a lot of Jaramillo's. Later he reached his mother, who gave his telephone number in September 1991. Jaramillo confirmed that in 1964, when Móricz arrived in Guayaquil, he started working with Geraldo Matheus Pena.
According to Hall, Móricz went off with the story of Jaramillo and therefore Móricz did not say Jaramillo's name to Der Spiegel in 1973.
Stan Hall would have sent Móricz a document about the expedition in 1976. Móricz would never have returned this manuscript, something that would end their friendship. Hall does not understand for years why he did not want the give the manuscript back, but should have reminded himself later when he finally met Jaramillo; named Petronio Jaramillo, this name came in it for. And this was the reason why Móricz was hiding the manuscript.

Source: aranylaci.freeweb.hu...
Source: achtergeslotendeuren.punt.nl...

Another site about this story and some more information about it: click here

Now there is the question, was Von Däniken really there?
Some different thinkings:

Because von Däniken published something in his book that was very controversial, he drew almost as well known author his own death sentence. This because Móricz subsequently denied that he Erich von Däniken had met, when journalists from the German newspapers Der Spiegel and Stern interview him. Since then, author Erich von Däniken was seen not only as ridiculous, but he was also seen as a person who "writes only lies", by many people.
However, the truth was that Erich von Däniken had many enemies in the academic environment, and he must have known perfectly well that this information immediately would be used against him if it would be a lie. They used almost everything to get him down for his ridiculous theory. A single lie would be fatal. This he must have known! Because he talked very often in his previous books on the massive opposition that he had on his hypothesis. Erich von Däniken Still devoted some 22 pages of his meeting with Móricz including the tour and his onward journey with them.

The next thing was in a fax from Zoltan to George Stuart of the National Geographic Society describing his work with Juan Moricz, the Tayos Cave and the discovery of the "giants".

Among the many books in which Dr. Moricz is mentioned we find "The Gold of the Gods", by Erich von Danicken. Please be advised that Dr. Moricz never authorized von Danicken's version of the facts, as they do not relate to the entire truth. In fact, von Danicken never entered LAS CUEVAS DE LOS TAYOS. Neither Dr. Moricz, nor I were willing to give von Danicken detailed information for fear of how he might twist the facts for commercial gain and notoriety. Both Dr. Moricz and I have explored the caves on seperate occassions, and have discovered irrefutable truths which couldbe linked to the "Origin of Man". The evidence I know to exist would astound the Scientific World.

Source: www.stangrist.com...


Your choice, was von Däniken really there, or is he a liar??

The following is a clip about the priest Crespi, who lives in that area. He is showing a golden statue and some of the metal sheets.

click here

In the World Explorers Club magazine, David Hatcher Childress has added a section on Father Crespi at the 'Metal Library of Atlantis' article.

Salesian Padre Carlos Crespi Croci, born in Italy in 1891, dedicated his life to Ecuador from 1923 to 1982. Educator, anthropologist, botanist, artist, explorer, cinematographer, humanitarian and musician, his unfathomable wealth of talents and benevolence served and illuminated rich and poor alike, in recognition of which an impressive sculpture to his memory was erected in Cuenca, his adopted city, by an adoring populace. After meeting Padre Crespi (see photo) in 1975-76, presbyterian-raised Stan Hall declared to a friend, ‘If ever I felt I'd been in the presence of a Saint it was Padre Crespi!’

More about Father Crespi:

Many may not be familiar with what we call the Crespi Collection, but it was/is one of the more amazing collection of artifacts from South & Central America that has every been brought together.
Father Carlos Crespi was a Silesian-monk who lived in Ecuador. He did missionary work among the Indian population in remote valleys during his lifetime.
Crespi received or bought many artifacts from the indigenous people in Ecuador.
When questioned, they told him they had found them in subterranean cave systems in the jungles. As time progressed, many of these relics were brought together and kept in the courtyard of the church Maria Auxiliadora.
Unfortunately, many of the artifacts were destroyed in a fire in 1962 or later when the church was restored. Also, many were lost or wound up with treasure hunters.
After Father Crespi passed away, the remaining artifacts of the original collection were removed and made inaccessible to the public.
Some may still be stored in the cellar archive of the church Maria Auxiliadora.
The age and origin of these items is still unknown today. Father Crespi never tried to classify them. The picture motifs are strange, their meaning not understood. These objects show the pictures of an unknown culture. Were they left by unknown civilizations?
The most well known pieces are tablets made of silver, gold foil or other alloys with unknown letters and mysterious symbols.

Source: ancientlosttreasures.yuku.com...


To see some of father Crespi's artifacts you can got to this link:
Father Crespi's artifacts


Watch this:

And compare it with this:


What do you think about this??

More about some of the artifacts found in the caves

The walls and passages of the tunnel system were bare. There were no paintings like those in the deep burial chambers in the Valley of the Kings near Luxor, no reliefs of the kind found in prehistoric caves at sites all over the world. Instead there were stone figures which we bumped into at every step. Moricz owns a stone amulet 4 inches high and 2 inches wide.

The obverse (Fig. 5) is engraved with a being with a hexagonal body and round head that might have been drawn by a child. The figure holds the moon in its right hand and the sun in its left hand. Admittedly, that is not particularly surprising, but-it stands with both feet firmly on the terrestrial globe! Surely that is a clear proof that even in times when the first primitive drawings were scratched on stone, a chosen few of our first ancestors already knew that we lived on a globe! The reverse shows a half moon and the radiant sun.

Without any doubt, this stone amulet found in the tunnels seems to me to be a proof that they were already in existence in the Middle Paleolithic (9000-4000 B.C.).






If this engraving by a prehistoric stonemason represents a dinosaur, there's something wrong!

These animals lived 135,000,000 years ago.

There is another engraving on a stone plaque (Fig. 6), 11 inches high and 1 foot 8 inches wide, this time depicting an animal. I suspect that it is a representation of a dinosaur. This extinct prehistoric animal moved on land with the help of long hind legs as shown in the engraving. Even its gigantic size dinosaurs were as much as 65 feet long-can still be sensed in the foreshortened squat version of the body, and the feet with three toes strengthen my suspicion. If my identification of this picture is correct, it will be most uncanny.

Source: www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Was is interesting about the pyramid and all seeing eye, is that in the modern use of it the cap stone is missing, and in the old one the capstone is on with the eye above.

So the theory goes that the capstone will regain its place at the top of the pyramid once the plan is complete, which generally relates to the new world order and its plan for a one world religion, supposedly for the sun god Ra i think.

So what im trying to say is maybe the people/aliens etc who made these shields where here, and so the capstone is there, they left to return one day and until then the cap stone will remain floating above the pyramind.

reply to post by dope001


It is quite a few years since I read Gold Of The Gods but wasn't there some mention of there being a collection of discs made of some unknown metal which Van Daniken believed contained infomation similar to a computer disc?

Von Daniken?
I suspect there is an element of truth in most of his writings but he was at times 'economical with the truth' and exaggerated his role.

Von Daniken was the person who introduced lots of people too ancient alien visitation theories and deserves some recognition at least for that.

Did he visit the tunnel system?
I honestly wouldn't like to say one way or another but if I had to guess one way or another I suspect not, but how do we explain the details he knew about it and the photo's he published?

I suspect there is much, much more to this story that we are as of yet totally unaware.

Anyone really buying that the "2 kittehs flying near pyramid" or "large goofy guitar thingy" are some ancient items? Looks to me like these are made by locals in an attempt to garner tourism. Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by dope001


I came across the name of father Crespi while surfing the net on another subject, and was intersted to learn that there is a school of thought (or conspiracy theory, if you like), that "Father Crespi" could have been a certain Adolf Hitler, who, contrary to having shot and poisoned himself in berlin in 1945, had actually escaped to South America, with the assistance of the Vatican, and that these "treasures" were in fact art and artifacts looted from Europe and the rest of the world during the Nazis reign. It is well established that Hitler, Himmler et al were intersted in the occult, and in historical artifacts, and had despatched Otto Rahn, among others, to variuous places in search of "treasures". The village where "Father Crespi" practiced for so much of his time in Ecuador, was in fact the same town that Martin Bormann had set up what was supposed to be the headquarters of the "Fourth Reich". It is mentionjed that a significant number of Ger,mans flwe in for his funeral, and that contrary to the normal simple burial that would befit a simple catholic priest, he was buried in a lavish coffin in a marble gravesite overlooking the city.

Until i read this thread, i had forgotten about this theory, however it prompted me to search for a photo of "Father Crespi".




....and......




Now one of Hr Hitler....




At a first glance, there is nothing partcularly striking when you compare the phots of Crespi and Hitler......but note the three distinct lines above Crespi's nose (one from each eye and one in the centre of the nose). Now look at the photo of Hitler - also showing two of the three lines, in the same position. Could they have been the same person? Apparently Fr Crespi also had strikingly blue eyes (as did Adolf).

So were these treasures found in some caves in Ecuador, or were they taken there for safe keeping after WWII. Apparently, many if not most of the treasures were removed after Fr Crespi's death.

There is a good article detailing the mystery surrounding Father Crespi in the following link:

www.hiddenmysteries.org...

Editted to say - I have no idea what i am doing when adding pictures. In order to compare the pictures of Crespi, they can be right clicked and openbed to a decent size (they show up too small when clicking the links).


[edit on 16-7-2009 by BlueOrb]

[edit on 16-7-2009 by BlueOrb]

reply to post by BlueOrb




It's a good point you make there;
but Hitler was born in 1837 and father crespi died in 1982.
So if this dates are correct, father crespi was 145 years old when died.
I think this could not be true.

But maybe they changed the date that Crespi died, because then nobody would believe this theory??
If it was a fact that he was Hitler, that would be amazing news.

I was looking for some pictures of Father Crespi when he was younger, but didn't find one.

reply to post by dope001

but Hitler was born in 1837 and father crespi died in 1982.

So Hitler was only 102 when he invaded Poland?

[edit on 7/17/2009 by Phage]

Sorry, I was looking on I site and there it was 1837, but that's indeed wrong!
Hitler was born in 1889.

So then Father Crespi would be 93 years old when he died,if he was Hitler.
That's more possible.

Thank's Phage!!!

Good stuff here....are these the same caves/cave system that Neil Armstrong alllegedly went to go see after his Lunar trip? I'll have to look into that....
Anyways, I've heard the story before but never saw the pics till now. Looking at the relics, it would seem theres a cultural mix going on.

Obviously the pyramids are prevalent. So what about this guy:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f09c6a846810.jpg[/atsimg]
At first glance the head might look reptilian (wishful thinking for some) but if you look closer, its birdlike. Horus maybe?

And this one has to be the Assyrian Bull. I included a google link to one for comparison.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/95cd32b2b816.jpg[/atsimg]
z.about.com...

Like I said could have been one culture and then they somehow got split up for whatever reason. And now we see these types of items/relics spread throughout other cultures.


[edit on 17-7-2009 by spikedmilk]

Neil Armstrong in regards to the "Metal Library", here it is:

A small step for Armstrong, a major step for mankind


By 1975, the story had killed the career of one notorious author, so who would dare to tread in his footsteps? The answer: Neil Armstrong, the first man on the Moon—or rather, a Scotsman who wanted to change the precarious status quo in which the Metal Library controversy had found itself.....................

How did Neil Armstrong get involved?

"The expedition needed an honorary figurehead," Stan Hall said. "The name of Prince Charles, who had recently received a degree in archaeology, was proposed, but I knew Neil Armstrong had Scottish connections. My mother was an Armstrong and via another Armstrong in Langholm, where Neil Armstrong had been made an honorary citizen, I made contact. Months later, I got a reply that Neil Armstrong was more than willing to join us on this mission. It's when the expedition suddenly became a life's challenge."

On 3 August 1976, when the expedition was winding down, Armstrong entered the tunnel system. Even though they were not looking for it, the team members did not stumble upon a Metal Library. Had they done so, the discovery would have altered mankind's perspective on our history and origins.

For Amstrong, it could have been his second great contribution to mankind's exploration. However, the team did catalogue 400 new plant species as well as a burial chamber inside the cave, in which a seated body was found. The chamber was later dated to 1500 BC, and it was believed that at the time of the summer solstice the sun illuminated this tomb.

The story had gone from ancient astronauts to astronaut par excellence, but what would be the next step?

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Hidden Mysteries article Written By Sean David Morton, the guy is a total fraud....

Originally posted by BlueOrb
reply to post by dope001

 

I came across the name of father Crespi while surfing the net on another subject, and was intersted to learn that there is a school of thought (or conspiracy theory, if you like), that "Father Crespi" could have been a certain Adolf Hitler, who, contrary to having shot and poisoned himself in berlin in 1945, had actually escaped to South America, with the assistance of the Vatican, and that these "treasures" were in fact art and artifacts looted from Europe and the rest of the world during the Nazis reign. It is well established that Hitler, Himmler et al were intersted in the occult, and in historical artifacts, and had despatched Otto Rahn, among others, to variuous places in search of "treasures". The village where "Father Crespi" practiced for so much of his time in Ecuador, was in fact the same town that Martin Bormann had set up what was supposed to be the headquarters of the "Fourth Reich". It is mentionjed that a significant number of Ger,mans flwe in for his funeral, and that contrary to the normal simple burial that would befit a simple catholic priest, he was buried in a lavish coffin in a marble gravesite overlooking the city.

Until i read this thread, i had forgotten about this theory, however it prompted me to search for a photo of "Father Crespi".




....and......




Now one of Hr Hitler....




At a first glance, there is nothing partcularly striking when you compare the phots of Crespi and Hitler......but note the three distinct lines above Crespi's nose (one from each eye and one in the centre of the nose). Now look at the photo of Hitler - also showing two of the three lines, in the same position. Could they have been the same person? Apparently Fr Crespi also had strikingly blue eyes (as did Adolf).

So were these treasures found in some caves in Ecuador, or were they taken there for safe keeping after WWII. Apparently, many if not most of the treasures were removed after Fr Crespi's death.

There is a good article detailing the mystery surrounding Father Crespi in the following link:

www.hiddenmysteries.org...

Editted to say - I have no idea what i am doing when adding pictures. In order to compare the pictures of Crespi, they can be right clicked and openbed to a decent size (they show up too small when clicking the links).


[edit on 16-7-2009 by BlueOrb]

[edit on 16-7-2009 by BlueOrb]

This is interesting...

www.disclose.tv...

reply to post by van001


www.associatedcontent.com...

I don't know about the guy being a "total fraud"...maybe you know better than me!

Check the link above - different site, perhaps with a little more credibility. I would suggest the guy you cite as a fraud had not discovered this information himself, but just re-hashed someone else's article or research.

If you read the article in the link above, it is stated that Father Crespi (also spelt Krespi in some places), left a vast art collection when he died, that conatined pieces that were identified as being from Adolf Hitler's personal collection.......

[edit on 17-7-2009 by BlueOrb]

reply to post by BlueOrb



I have read articles and heard interviews with him in the past, less than credible...

I think they are both making it up.

Things like the "dinosaur" are pretty obvious fakes. The "skeleton" looks Mexican folk art in nature.

Explorers, tourists, travelers, and natives have all been over these areas... and if those folks could find them, everyone else could as well. There would be more recent photos and evidence from their close associates, and they would have brought the artifacts to world famous museums... because museums would have bid crazy amounts of money to get their hands on them.

So we can say, the story is fake?
I think, maybe some points are true, but the story is blowed up by some people.
Like you said Byrd, big money can be the reason.
People will do crazy things when there is possibility to make a lot of money.