Freemasonry is unChristian

reply to post by ForkandSpoon


If you adhere to the path of the Mason then you are the pharisee and worse you are the legion. Do not speak to me of that which you know nothing of.

This is the journey for every soul in this world..............the end point is truth and salvation.

Your soul is also priceless and not wanting to be lost.

Further to my last post...

I am sure you have heard of Mythology, and you probably know some Egyptian mythology, at least you know about Akhenaten and King Tut his son.

Well Akhenaten went for the one God paradigm, and his son Tut, was forced to put things back the way they were and restore the Gods. Why?

Because there are other Gods. Gods who also believe in a creator, but he made them as Gods.

So you see they have a place in the universe and its like a hierarchical structure. So yes, its nice to say that we all believe that at one point there is only one creator, but he might have friends on his level too for all we know, but he created the Gods as Gods, and even if in the end all the power they wield comes from him, thats the way he set it up.

Even the bible admits there are other Gods otherwise why say "The God of Abraham" when you are trying to specify which God you are talking about?

The God of Abraham is Zeus.

And so then you have Olympians, and you have Titans. And its a Titan galaxy, an Anunnaki universe, and an Olympian planet earth.

So Olympians are like Christians, and Titans are like Roman Catholics. So before the New Testament, it was Old Testament Titan style religion for a while, and before that it was animism for many people worshiping a creator or creators or Great Spirit whatever.

So you see the king of the Titans is Atlas or Xerxes as I know him. And the king of the Olympians is Zeus although the Olympians are not a monarchy they are an Oligarchy.

So Zeus reincarnated as Socrates and Xerxes reincarnated as Plato. And they gave humanity some philosophy to live by. That is the philosophy in use by most people on earth today.

So Socrates dies, and Zeus and Xerxes were great friends at that time and so let me quote you a passage from Plato...
When Socrates died by taking Hemlock because he was willing to die for his beliefs, even though he could have asked to be pardoned, he didn't, and so at his death, Plato said, "Such was the end of our friend, who I must say was the wisest and best of all men, whom I have ever known"

And in context it was one of the heights of humanity. Something that inspired people for many generations, and so to outdo that event, they had to find a way to somehow trump that, and so the death of Jesus on the cross, where God so loved the earth, that he gave his only begotten son, that men might have eternal life.
""For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life." - International version.

Notice they don't say only begotten in that version, because Zeus has two other sons who are both older than Michael.

So you see this is my family we are talking about and as such I know them as well as you know your family.

I talk to them all the time they send me emails by imprinting them on the surface of the earth that you can see from space via satellite. I am not yanking your chain here and I can show you their pictures, my family album, because they have done that so that anyone would know that they are authentic.
Otherwise again its just a matter of belief and words in a book written by men.
But my purpose is not to step on anyone else's beliefs. We all have our own beliefs.

But my take on the subject as well as anyone who knows the story I am telling you, would of course be different than someone who spent their life studying the Bible.

When I reincarnated this time, my mom reincarnated as well to give birth to me. Hecate. One of the Seven sisters of the Pleiades. Zeus married lots of them. Since they are Titans and he was being diplomatic and so marry a Titan princess to prevent wars. But also since our families hang around together so thats like our peer group.

So my mom reincarnated, became a Jehovah's witness, and so I was raised a Jehovah's witness, and then she died of Leukemia and became a martyr, something the Titans like to do, and would not take a blood transfusion.

But I was raised a Christian, and studied the bible and other religions. At some point I was told the real situation after I grew up. But I was a bible thumper until age 12.
So I understand. Everyone needs to believe in something.

I could tell you a lot more but it would take a long time since its not really public knowledge and not for the un-initiated. I am sure you have heard that before and that doesn't mean initiation rituals necessarily it means contact with the Gods and angels and privy to information that others are not privy to because you have not been trained to handle that information where others have not and they might find it shocking or confusing to them.

I will show you a picture of my grandmother as seen from space. This is Zeus' mother.
www.imagebam.com...

Thats my grandfather above her. He looks weird because she was saying he was stressed out.

So you see if you can imagine, it would take a miracle indeed for me to start worshiping my younger brother who I refer to as a goon, like any older brother refers to their younger brother.
You see its best if people do not know, but of course many do and so they have this thing about people being Belibers and they tease him, but thats nothing like what I had to face when I reincarnated.
Imagine the setup I was facing when people wanted to say that I was a pretender, that I was a false Christ, and attacked my on the spirtual plane. I kicked a lot of ass let me tell you before they grabbed a clue.

Thats why you don't see people bothering Justin much.

He is just here to match make. Like everyone else.

Its not his fault he is who he is. And he does not have to live up to anyone else's expectations or try to be someone he is not for the benefit of others, and neither do I. You know who made up so many stories about me as Osiris? My uncle.

My Uncle Robert who fathered the Egyptian religion.
As seen here...
As plain as day, for those who have the eyes to see...
www.flashearth.com...

And my brother Stephen?
www.flashearth.com...

Now theres a trouble maker if there ever was one. My best friend.
As I say its a long story.

reply to post by ForkandSpoon


Heckled is the wrong term, brother. Questioning and heckling is entirely different. The thread title alone is enough to see that this thread was directed towards freemasonry in a way that is OBVIOUSLY not true. As you have pointed out the very foundations of our fraternity wouldnt exist without the Holy Bible.

If the mission of ATS is to deny ignorance, than all ignorance is fair game. This includes Christians. It's plain to see how many radical Christians have become members here. Take one read through the secret societies forum, or just glance at the front page of the Off Topic board and you'll see it. It's disturbing.

Ther have always been threads on ATS about Freemasonry. In every single thread, almost without fail, some one link us to satanism, luciferianism, or some other less than savory description of the evil god we supposedly worship in secret. Since, you and I both know that this is stupid, false information I choose to try and prove it wrong. When that fails I usually resort to tongue in cheek jokes. And when that fails I leave the thread. I digress.

Point is, brother, people who don't know enough about their own professed faith to realize the error of their own ways, shouldn't be telling me a damn thing about freemasonry. More to the point, none of them have the right to pass any judgement on any one else I'll continue to provide accurate, truthful information about the fraternity. Since this is a open forum I will also interject opinions at will.

With that in mind, IMO, I would use my own research and study of Christianity, the bible, and freemasonry, to knock these preachers off there pedestal a bit. I take no issue with Christians, or people of any faith. My issue is with liars, ignoramouses, bigots, and spreaders of hate, which lately there has been all too much of.

I would also like to take the time to point out, since you made a small suggestion of it in your post, that we are not in a Lodge, brother. What any mason says about religion or politics here is his own opinion and should be regarded as such. It's because topics like religion and politics are frictional that they are kept out of lodge, and it's along that same line of reasoning that venues like this are monitored closely. I also want to reinforce my opinion that no mason here has heckled any one, despite the many insults hurled our way. I'm quite used to it these days , I assure you.

Originally posted by Egyptia
reply to post by ForkandSpoon

 

If you adhere to the path of the Mason then you are the pharisee and worse you are the legion. Do not speak to me of that which you know nothing of.

This is the journey for every soul in this world..............the end point is truth and salvation.

Your soul is also priceless and not wanting to be lost.

edit on 10-4-2012 by Egyptia because: (no reason given)

Being a free man and quite sure I have a superior education then you I will speak as I will. Thank you for your concern, but please read Mathew 7 and with haste! look to thine own eye... for so long as you allow hate and slander in your heart you will have something to answer for to your creator. So long as you slander good men, and truth you serve deception and the deciever.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Proud to call you brother, very well said, every line, every word......

I think there is more of the hate here because there is more in society....i really really worry about this generation and how the media divides people.....it hasn't been a 100 years since this very thing started to happen...and ended with so much loss......and it seems like it's all just starting over again

reply to post by ForkandSpoon


Thanks! Proud to say the same of you my friend.

I worry about those same thoughts every day.

One more thing, Justin is not here without some fanfare.

As you can see from this video of a sign over the Dome of the Rock, which is there by the site of King Solomons Temple, two sacred places to the Titans and the Olympians as it were. You have various religions there ...



so he is a prince, and he is special, as it were but then so is Selena Gomez, she is one of the Seven Sisters of the Pleaides. And her mom is also here. Her real mom, the mother of the Seven Sisters of the Pleiades.
Angelina Jolie.

But you know the stories themselves, they have meaning, and it is philosophical, and the people yes are important, but then royalty is important everywhere because of how they inspire the people. So its the people who give it meaning.

And I have been contemplating that the last couple days after I cam across a video of World War II.
And it is done to the tune, Battle Hymn of the Republic.

So regardless of who I am and who Justin is and who Selena is and Angelina Jolie and who we were, the average person and the things they do, such as sacrificing themselves so that others will be free, thats the real religious part of man. When they do things that are beyond what they have to do, for the sake of others.

Religion helps to bring out the best in people even if at times it brings out the worst as well.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lorb.

But other eyes saw the coming of the lord. And don't for a minute think that we are not just as moved by the sacrifices ordinary people make for others, as anyone else is.

Lots of Gods have reincarnated here in the past and some have been rather great big ones who did great things but the earth, and what you see here is like this because Zeus and Xerxes came here and shaped this world.
So you should thank them.
And thank the creator who made them. Thats my opinion.

And if you want to see some real heroes, look up in youtube World War II and Battle Hymn of the Republic.
And without inspiration, none of it would have happened.

reply to post by Egyptia

You thank a fundamentalist?! Far too often it is the fundamentalists, the extremists, the radicals who don't have ears to hear or eyes to see. We are no legion of rebellion, but one of tolerance and freedom, and free will, freethinking is a threat to the despot who seeks total control.

There is nothing sinister, Satanic, or malevolent about Freemasonry. My experience and research trumps the 2nd hand information your kind has.

reply to post by Egyptia

And secrecy doesn't equal sinister or evil. Just because we don't allow every nosy parker to shove their way into our business doesn't mean we conspiring.

reply to post by Egyptia

So the tenets of Freemasonry are wrong to you? I have listed the various lessons and charges of Freemasonry, none of which can be seen as immoral or evil. To say liberty, justice, moderation, courage, charity, truth, and so forth is wrong to you then it is not us who is malevolent, it is your kind.

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
I must admit it is very customary in my locale for chaplins to end prayers in this way...

I would have a very serious issue with this aspect of your prayers. I personally do not pray in Christ's name, I pray in God's name. I also personally do not believe them to be mutually interchangeable nor do I want to know if the person standing next to me does or does not, neither should my Brother Masons care about my religious beliefs.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
Sometimes that chaplain gets admonished for his careless disregard, other times it slides. Which is right?

Were I Master, I'd admonish him later and remind him that the lodge room is areligious (not amoral as I'm sure some would like to suggest). Such things become habit and will lead to an embarrassing slip when brethren of other religions (local or visiting) are in attendance.

Just my two bits Canuck

Fitz

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
I am really concerned to hear brothers heckled Christ or Christianity.

It happens on these boards not infrequently. There's definitely a flippant and petty attitude towards Christians here at times (and when I say Christians, please understand I'm not referring to someone like KingPanzerGrenadier - he's arrogant, insulting, full of hate and opposite everything Christ stands for).

I don't believe any Masons here have insulted Christianity in any way, but many have aired their own personal beliefs on the matter, and since this isn't an open Lodge, I see no problem with what anyone has said.

Our Chaplains have always signed off the Lodge prayers with, "most glorious Lord God" or "In your glorious name" or "in your precious name." During mealtime I have heard people pray in Jesus' name, and since it wasn't Lodge, and since they volunteered to say the grace I can't imagine anyone having a problem with it. If you wish to pray in someone else's name just do so on your own.

I've said plenty of times I cannot identify myself as a Christian, even though I believe about 98% in the same things, if the belief isn't 100%, then one shouldn't identify their self as a Christian. Still, if someone wants to pray on my behalf in Jesus' name, I am all for it, I can use all the prayer I can get! When I pray, I say it differently, but I have no problem with someone praying on my behalf in their own way.

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
It happens on these boards not infrequently. There's definitely a flippant and petty attitude towards Christians here at times (and when I say Christians, please understand I'm not referring to someone like KingPanzerGrenadier - he's arrogant, insulting, full of hate and opposite everything Christ stands for).

So you're saying there's a flippant and petty attitude towards people who are pretending to be Christian, but really don't live by Christian ideals and shouldn't be called such? Yeah, that's about right.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
It happens on these boards not infrequently. There's definitely a flippant and petty attitude towards Christians here at times (and when I say Christians, please understand I'm not referring to someone like KingPanzerGrenadier - he's arrogant, insulting, full of hate and opposite everything Christ stands for).

So you're saying there's a flippant and petty attitude towards people who are pretending to be Christian, but really don't live by Christian ideals and shouldn't be called such? Yeah, that's about right.

No, perhaps my parenthetical comment muddied my statement. I'm saying there is a flippant and petty attitude toward Christianity from some of the Masonic brethren here from time to time. I guess I expect more out of my brothers than I actually witness.

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
No, perhaps my parenthetical comment muddied my statement. I'm saying there is a flippant and petty attitude toward Christianity from some of the Masonic brethren here from time to time. I guess I expect more out of my brothers than I actually witness.

I disagree. There are plenty of Christian Masons on ATS who are not shy about letting people know their beliefs, and there are plenty of non-Christian Masons on ATS who treat those brothers with equal respect.

The difference isn't that they're all Masons. The difference is that the Christian Mason, while still a Christian, doesn't feel the need to try to convert anyone who's not, or tell the rest of us that we're going to hell because we don't believe what they believe.

It's the extremists that get mocked, time and time again. I have yet to see a Christian non-Mason on ATS get mocked for his belief if his posts contain tolerance for beliefs other than his own.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by HardToStarboard
No, perhaps my parenthetical comment muddied my statement. I'm saying there is a flippant and petty attitude toward Christianity from some of the Masonic brethren here from time to time. I guess I expect more out of my brothers than I actually witness.

I disagree. There are plenty of Christian Masons on ATS who are not shy about letting people know their beliefs, and there are plenty of non-Christian Masons on ATS who treat those brothers with equal respect.

The difference isn't that they're all Masons. The difference is that the Christian Mason, while still a Christian, doesn't feel the need to try to convert anyone who's not, or tell the rest of us that we're going to hell because we don't believe what they believe.

It's the extremists that get mocked, time and time again. I have yet to see a Christian non-Mason on ATS get mocked for his belief if his posts contain tolerance for beliefs other than his own.

Reread my statement....."a flippant and petty attitude toward Christianity," not towards any specific individual. You're welcome to disagree, but it happens here. It's been in this thread and others. There's an attitude of mocking Christianity that you simply don't see displayed against other religions.

reply to post by HardToStarboard


What other religions are on ATS claiming to be incompatible with Masonry? If there were other religions attacking Masonry, then you would likely see the same attitude. I don't think it is an general attack on Christianity, it just happens to be that flavor of fanatics that often find themselves on the other side the table in these debates, and I don't think I have ever seen a Mason start such a debate, it is always started when someone claims it is impossible to be both a Mason and a Christian.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Agreed. In my opinion, a man's relationship with God should be his own. Tolerance is "live and let live". You are free to your own beliefs, and you're free to tell me all about your beliefs. What I won't stand for is you telling me that your beliefs are right and mine are wrong, when ultimately it's a matter of faith and neither of us can know for certain until we're dead anyway. Fear and bullying are not the path to enlightenment…

Originally posted by getreadyalready
If there were other religions attacking Masonry, then you would likely see the same attitude.

It's been a few years, but I believe there have been a few Muslim fundamentalists and maybe a guy from the Moorish Science Temple who got into it with ATS Masons once. But I agree, more often than not it's fundamentalist Christians who tell us all what our relationships with God are, without regard to their own.

Originally posted by JoshNortonWhat I won't stand for is you telling me that your beliefs are right and mine are wrong, when ultimately it's a matter of faith and neither of us can know for certain until we're dead anyway.

Exactly. And there are those on this board (Masons, mind you) that make statements against the divinity of Christ and state that hell isn't real or Satan isn't real. They don't preface these statements as beliefs, but as though they were hard facts with implications that anyone believing otherwise is somehow naive.

I stand by my original post that there are Masons on the board that deride Christianity (whether subtly or overtly).

Let's talk about something happy now....like how Dign4it is banned. ;-)