Jesus Christ is the only way

Originally posted by DaisyAnne

Originally posted by rubbertramp
sometimes i wonder if most christians just ignore the longer, more boring, less intelligible portion of the bible, and head straight for the final chapters.

It would certainly seem so.
Hence the denial.

If I understand correctly, you expect me to find the Old Testament verses that describe your hateful god, and then refute them for you. As an astute pastor once told us 'Chapter and verse'. Making generalizations without scriptural references is lazy.

Actually now that I posted, I have to just add something:
Number of humans ordered killed or slain by god in the Bible, upwards of 2.16 million. Number of people killed by Satan - the children of Job - which was a order from God that Satan had to fulfill. True story...I saw it happen haha
www.youtube.com... part 1

www.youtube.com... part 2

[edit on 15-7-2009 by makinho21]

[edit on 15-7-2009 by makinho21]

[edit on 15-7-2009 by makinho21]

reply to post by novacs4me


OK. Let's stsrt with:

Hosea 9:11-16, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Exodus 12:29-30, Jeremiah 51:20-26, Leviticus 26:21-22, Isaiah 13:15-18, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 2:34, Deuteronomy 28:53, I Samuel 15:3, 2 Kings 8:12, 2 Kings 15:16, Lamentations 2:20, Hosea 13:16

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
reply to post by novacs4me

 

OK. Let's stsrt with:

Hosea 9:11-16, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Exodus 12:29-30, Jeremiah 51:20-26, Leviticus 26:21-22, Isaiah 13:15-18, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 2:34, Deuteronomy 28:53, I Samuel 15:3, 2 Kings 8:12, 2 Kings 15:16, Lamentations 2:20, Hosea 13:16

Fair enough. Sounds like you found a quick website reference to get your ammo. Now, if I take on your assumption of a hateful god, will it be a waste of my time? Will you do like most God-haters and quickly change subjects? What are the chances that if I show you that God is leading his chosen people to victory in war, that you will come to see him as a loving God?

Originally posted by novacs4me

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
reply to post by novacs4me

 

OK. Let's stsrt with:

Hosea 9:11-16, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Exodus 12:29-30, Jeremiah 51:20-26, Leviticus 26:21-22, Isaiah 13:15-18, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 2:34, Deuteronomy 28:53, I Samuel 15:3, 2 Kings 8:12, 2 Kings 15:16, Lamentations 2:20, Hosea 13:16

Fair enough. Sounds like you found a quick website reference to get your ammo. Now, if I take on your assumption of a hateful god, will it be a waste of my time? Will you do like most God-haters and quickly change subjects? What are the chances that if I show you that God is leading his chosen people to victory in war, that you will come to see him as a loving God?

You will not show anything other than words put together by man. Man can make anything say anything, this is a very old art. It may work for you,m but it doesnt work for logic and reason.

Would the majority of Christians be more satisfied with

People accepting the Positive teaching of Jesus without having to believe in the God and miracle stuff?

or

Believing that Jesus was the Son of God without the teachings

I mean if you ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY HAD TO CHOOSE between

The positive message of Jesus without God and the rest of the miracles

OR

Jesus was the Son of God

Which is more important to you?

The message that Jesus represents or belief in a God?

I know nearly every single Christian is going to say they refuse to choose and you can't have one without the other BUT FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT which would you choose?

reply to post by novacs4me


I can only speak for myself saying this but, I do not hate your god... I just don't believe he exist as a entity of some sort.

So please do separate this. Being an atheist doesn't mean you hate.

Originally posted by novacs4me

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
reply to post by novacs4me

 

OK. Let's stsrt with:

Hosea 9:11-16, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Exodus 12:29-30, Jeremiah 51:20-26, Leviticus 26:21-22, Isaiah 13:15-18, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 2:34, Deuteronomy 28:53, I Samuel 15:3, 2 Kings 8:12, 2 Kings 15:16, Lamentations 2:20, Hosea 13:16

Fair enough. Sounds like you found a quick website reference to get your ammo. Now, if I take on your assumption of a hateful god, will it be a waste of my time? Will you do like most God-haters and quickly change subjects? What are the chances that if I show you that God is leading his chosen people to victory in war, that you will come to see him as a loving God?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here?

I provided you with the chapters and verses, as you requested., but you haven't answered me.

I don't want to change the subject at all. I did as you asked, now do you have an answer for it?

Originally posted by novacs4meWhat are the chances that if I show you that God is leading his chosen people to victory in war, that you will come to see him as a loving God?

Well there you have it don't you" His CHOSEN which according to the Bible are the 12 tribes of Israel

How is wiping out the world with a flood leading his chosen people to victory? Come to thing of it how did they recreate the twelve tribes fro only NOAH's bloodline?


So what happened here? Jesus came along and changed Gods mind? Why did Christians not toss out he Old Testament and actually follow Jesus' teachings as he laid them down?

No one is a 'god hater' but neither are we blind Sheep that are afraid to question the world

[edit on 15-7-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by DaisyAnne

Originally posted by novacs4me

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
reply to post by novacs4me

 

OK. Let's stsrt with:

Hosea 9:11-16, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Exodus 12:29-30, Jeremiah 51:20-26, Leviticus 26:21-22, Isaiah 13:15-18, Numbers 31:17, Deuteronomy 2:34, Deuteronomy 28:53, I Samuel 15:3, 2 Kings 8:12, 2 Kings 15:16, Lamentations 2:20, Hosea 13:16

Fair enough. Sounds like you found a quick website reference to get your ammo. Now, if I take on your assumption of a hateful god, will it be a waste of my time? Will you do like most God-haters and quickly change subjects? What are the chances that if I show you that God is leading his chosen people to victory in war, that you will come to see him as a loving God?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here?

I provided you with the chapters and verses, as you requested., but you haven't answered me.

I don't want to change the subject at all. I did as you asked, now do you have an answer for it?

But you didn't bother to read the Bible to get your references. You just took the word of some other God-hater. Sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours refuting what took you 3 minutes to find on a website. It wouldn't change your opinion, and I have better things to do.

Originally posted by novacs4me
But you didn't bother to read the Bible to get your references. You just took the word of some other God-hater.

Ummm so you are claiming the quotes are not accurate? A verse is a verse... it does not change because someone else quotes it

And please refrain from quoting the entire post before it brings down the Mod Squad

Sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours refuting what took you 3 minutes to find on a website.

No what you are doing is what all in your position do... you haven't read the book well enough yourself to be able to pull a quote up from the web, yet you seem to have hours of time to argue your point without backup

[edit on 15-7-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by novacs4me

Help me understand what your beef with God is. Did you ask Him for money or what?

In a small nutshell: I have NO family. I asked for one, count 'em ONE woman for a wife. God not only took her away, I get reminded of her daily. Prayer does nothing to stop it. ALL other women i have tried to date and marry have either jumped ship, or like the last one, ended up with massive misfortune (this last one is deathly ill and in foreclosure).

So, basically, I have been abused by the Almighty. I am alone, I am going to die alone, and NOTHING I can do or have done will stop it. And worse? I am tortured WANTING a wife! Nothing I do stops that, either! not prayer, not focusing on other stuff, nothing. God is enjoying the pain I am going thru.

Originally posted by novacs4me


But you didn't bother to read the Bible to get your references. You just took the word of some other God-hater. Sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours refuting what took you 3 minutes to find on a website. It wouldn't change your opinion, and I have better things to do.

I did read the Bible. Many, many times. It didn't take me three minutes to come to this conclusion, it took me years. I keep this information on hand precisely for these debates, and as usual, the answer I receive is silence. I'm sorry that you don't have an answer and so would rather turn and leave the conversation than stay and talk. I know it is hard to take an honest look at your faith, and not everyone can do it.

As for this God-haters thing: I'm not an atheist. But my God is not your God. To be honest, your God scares the heck out of me. My God is the opposite of that.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by DaisyAnne]

reply to post by spy66

People dont understand that our misery is totally created by our selves.

Spoken by a true believer in "not God's fault, not my responsibility. Oh look! A birdie!"

I am living PROOF that is NOT how it works. I have seen $#^* that'll turn you WHITE. I have experienced stuff that I was sure was just my mind going bye bye- until someone ELSE experienced the same exact things! Someone who didn't have the knowledge to even have a sketchy idea!

Buster.... if you were to try to walk a mile in my shoes, you'd be a blubbering mound of flesh in 100 yards.

.... All of you bible bashers are wrong, .... your idea's to not fit into established ways of thinking, .... you seek to undermine everything that has been held dear for thousands of years, ...... you probably surround yourself with beggars and prostitutes, ........ you should be crucified !!!!

..... remind you of anyone ?? ....... some of you wouldn't know Jesus if you passed him, begging for money on the street.

.... Open your eyes. How can you view the world from the comfort of a box ??? ...... burn the freaking thing down !!

If I were to evaluate the verses listed, I would have to do an inductive study. I would not give 'off the cuff' answers to the charges you have made. The only proper way for me to do this would take hours, due to the number of verses you expect me to discuss. Perhaps you are the originator of the list of verses, Daisy Ann, but if so, you didn't go find them in the Bible in the few minutes that passed between our posts.

It is clear from your later posts that your heart is hardened against the Lord. I would gladly do the research if I thought it would change your mind, though.

Jesus is not the ONLY way, he is one of infinite ways. Theres is no wrong way, there is no right way, there is only the way that we each invidually take. We all go our own way. Find peace in yourselves and those you love, because that is the only place you will truly find it.

Live here.

Live now.

Live.

And Love.

Originally posted by novacs4me
If I were to evaluate the verses listed, I would have to do an inductive study. I would not give 'off the cuff' answers to the charges you have made. The only proper way for me to do this would take hours, due to the number of verses you expect me to discuss. Perhaps you are the originator of the list of verses, Daisy Ann, but if so, you didn't go find them in the Bible in the few minutes that passed between our posts.

It is clear from your later posts that your heart is hardened against the Lord. I would gladly do the research if I thought it would change your mind, though.

I didn't need to go and find them in the bible between posts. I study religion, and I keep notes on the things that I find and that others find. It is easy to copy and post these things from my notes into the little message box. See?

If it is the sheer volume of evidence that is putting you off, how about you just try discussing one of them? That wouldn't be too hard, would it? If you truly think that you could do the research and come back with something, then I invite you to do just that. I would like at least one person that I challenge on this to follow through.

As for my heart being hardened, it certainly is hardened against infanticide, genocide and rape.

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst
you seek to undermine everything that has been held dear for thousands of years, ...... you probably surround yourself with beggars and prostitutes, ........ you should be crucified !!!!

There are a lot of things that have been held dear for thousands of tears, The Qua'ran, the Tora, the Vedic Scriptures, The Buddhist Scripture... How do these fit into your little box?

As to prostitues and beggars, seems I recall Jesus spent many a long time with people like that, turning water to wine when the party ran dry. He surely didn't hang out with the Pharasees and Herod's bunch



But your right... I doubt very many Christians would recognize him on the street if he wasn't spreading his word






[edit on 15-7-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst


.... All of you bible bashers are wrong, .... your idea's to not fit into established ways of thinking, .... you seek to undermine everything that has been held dear for thousands of years, ...... you probably surround yourself with beggars and prostitutes, ........ you should be crucified !!!!

..... remind you of anyone ?? ....... some of you wouldn't know Jesus if you passed him, begging for money on the street.

True that.
I think it was Kierkegaard who wrote a little on exactly that point.