9/11 Harsher facts.

I`m not sure if anyone has ever covered this side, but once again it goes way beyond the boundaries of what has ever happened before.......


Missing and beyond recognition bodies.

Nearly 2,800 victims, fewer than 300 whole bodies found, fewer than 1,600 victims identified, over 1,100 victims remain unidentified, over 800 victims identified by DNA alone, nearly 20,000 pieces of bodies found, over 6,000 pieces small enough to fit in test-tubes, over 200 pieces matched to single person, nearly 10,000 unidentified pieces frozen for future analysis.

The aircraft impacts and fires in all probability would not have destroyed a single body beyond positive identification. Nor have building collapses ever been known to destroy human remains beyond recognition. However, the buildings were destroyed in a manner that converted most of their non-metallic contents to homogeneous dust, including the bodies. This destruction of the bodies assured that no exact determination could ever be made regarding who was piloting the jets at impact, and the condition of the people on board.

Human Remains Discovered in 2006........

About a year after the official program to identify victims had ended, more human remains turned up on top of the Deutsche Bank Building, which stands about 400 feet to the south of the location of the former South Tower. More than 300 human bone fragments were recovered from the roof of the 43-story skyscraper as workers removed toxic debris in preparation for a floor-by-floor take-down of the building. Most of the fragments were less then 1/16th inch in length and were found in gravel raked to the sides of the roof of the building.

How were human remains reduced to nearly microscopic status and propelled over 120 metres away, there have been numerous world wide catastrophes, including earth quakes and colossal building collapses, planes exploding in mid air, enormous fires, but in most cases where the access is accessible, the rescue workers have managed to find bodies in a status that makes them easy to identify.

For those that where near the bottom of the towers and obviously having the brunt of the rubble bearing down on them it`s a lot more understandable, but we are reliably informed of the pancake affect, and I say this with no disrespect to the dead intended... Surely all the bodies would be completely flattened and basically secured between the floors as they pancake?, especially those nearer the top, again how the hell did they turn up at a near atomic type size on roofs 400 feet away?.

My theory here is and we`ve all seen the collapses, when the collapse started there is a huge expulsion of concrete reduced to dust being expelled with an enormous amount of energy, what ever caused this gigantic explosion also obliterated any humans be it still living or dead before hand.

When replying to this post please keep it respectful, thanks in advance.

First of all, the Pancake collapse was a preliminary hypothesis from FEMA and the ASCE (i think?). It was later refuted by NIST upon there more in depth investigation.

The fact is, WTC 1 & 2 were ripped apart with the energy of over 130 TONS of TNT, each. This was due to a gravity collapse. I'm not sure what you would expect to be left.

EDIT
(pancake effect).. i misunderstood you. Yes, there were several instances of floors compressed into each other.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by CameronFox]

reply to post by Seventh

The aircraft impacts and fires in all probability would not have destroyed a single body beyond positive identification. Nor have building collapses ever been known to destroy human remains beyond recognition. However, the buildings were destroyed in a manner that converted most of their non-metallic contents to homogeneous dust, including the bodies. This destruction of the bodies assured that no exact determination could ever be made regarding who was piloting the jets at impact, and the condition of the people on board.

Sure - ever seen a body burned to a cinder after a MVA/fire ? Or walked
a crash scene after a jet crash?

After a Lear Jet crash walked the crash scene marking body parts for
the coroner - found part of someone's chest, a hand (without fingers)
and several amputated fingers, rest was few random chunks of
"human hamburger". This was from crash at lower speed than at WTC

People reduced to random scraps. Body burned to lump of charcoal

Now imagine hundreds of thousands of tons of debris crashing to ground
acting as a giant grinding machine. Now factor in the debris pile burning
for 3 months afterwards.

Having seen on a small scale what happens to a body in plane crash or
vehicle fire can easily understand the results of WTC....

I believe the perpetrators of this ghastly deed used something much more powerful than impact and jet fuel. NIST is a joke it's so obvious that something very cheesy went on and is going on that if a person can or won't see now then forget it. How in the world could 1500 automobiles a half of a mile away just melt and warp. It's so hokey it's really scary. I think a Directed Energy Weapon was used. Go ahead and laugh.

I dont know ... I wake up on average 10 or so people a week now ... and all I can say is ... the ones who continue to believe the official story were just like me... would lay down their lives for this country if necessary... and then 911... you know what is the hardest part of this 911 thing... I see the all 3 of fox defense mechanisms of dinial... all the time and its getting really tripe... and there is nothing more touching of the heart of America, once they are awake... for those who want the whole picture... sometimes leave out of here crying, in dis-belief... one thing is certain, you can not go back to sleep, If you could I would be first in line. just like you cant undo a murder you cant go back to sleep.

It wasn`t just bodies that had vaporised......

Accounts of Ground Zero agree on the thoroughness of the destruction. What remained was primarily the structural steel, other metal pieces, paper, and dust. Not only were the non-metallic parts of the building -- such as concrete and glass -- pulverized, so were the building contents,

At the end of the first week, a fireman from Brooklyn recalled bluntly his frustration and awe at how little was left. He had just completed a 24-hour shift.
You have 10-story buildings that leave more debris than these two 100-story towers, Where the f___ is everything? A serious week-long search and we've found 200 [bodies] in a pile of 5,000? What's going on? Where is everyone? Why aren't we finding more bodies? Cause it's all vaporized -- turned to dust. We're breathing people in that dust.

media.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Seventh


You didn't answer me ?

Our ambulance corp responded to WTC site on 9/12 - first thing saw was
severed foot lying admist debris.

Again why didn't you answer?

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Seventh

 

You didn't answer me ?

Our ambulance corp responded to WTC site on 9/12 - first thing saw was
severed foot lying admist debris.

Again why didn't you answer?

Where is your question?.

You found a severed foot, how is this a question?.

It`s not my reading comprehension it`s your grasp of the English language.

[edit on 16/07/2009 by Seventh]

reply to post by CameronFox


Yeah, I guess he should just shut up and never mention 9/11 again?
Nobody should ever bring it up, if they do we should kill them huh?
Should we waterboard him or lock him in a camp and torture him too?

I cant for the life of me understand why some people are so obsessed with telling others that they need to leave 9/11 alone, if he were here advocating pedophilia I am almost certain you would not be here posting.

If he were advocating the torture of children you would not be here but since its 9/11 related you guys come out of the wood work, anyone would say that some truthers suffer from OCD but if that is the case where does that leave you guys?

Insults, threats and nonsense seem to be the biggest tools the anti truthers use and after 5 years of lurking in the shadows here I am speaking up.

I was there, I lived it and I am dying from it and even I don't tell anybody they are crazy for asking questions, those buildings were just about turned into a fine dust and I am not convinced that the story we have been given makes any sense while this is not to say I am a believer in space beams and UFO's, I have questions that your side is giving bogus answers for.

If he wants to believe that the government that's his business, It is illogical to think that the government tells the truth about anything anymore.

Whether you are a person who does not like truthers or a paid employee of the federal government what you need to understand is that 9/11 truth is not going anywhere, these people have valid questions and I have found that they are not as crazy as your side makes them out to be.

NYCCAN is coming and will pass this November, I guess you are going to tell them to shut up too?

pparently have problems with reading comprehension - I Stated it
was on 9/12 for the severed foot.

Many of my friends were involved in the recovery - saw enough horror
to last a lifetime.

When a jet slams into a building at 500+ mph anybody on board
and in the way gets ground into little bitty pieces - I mentioned
having to do body recovery after a plane crash. Not a lot left afterwards


Consider what happens to bodies during the building collapse - unless
happen to be in some protected location the bodies are going to be
pulverized. Add to that debris pile burning for 3 months after.

I have explained conditions of bodies after "normal" accidents being
destroyed in vehicle fire/plane crash - both many times less violent or
prolonged than the WTC scene....

I found it odd that while watching the television on that fateful morning,that there were numerous reports of secondary devices and secondary explosions.
Afterward you never heard anything more about those reports.
It would take alot of energy to cause the destruction that happened on 9/11.I just have a hard time believing it was due to structural failure.

Originally posted by thedman
pparently have problems with reading comprehension - I Stated it
was on 9/12 for the severed foot.

Many of my friends were involved in the recovery - saw enough horror
to last a lifetime.

Do you have Mesothelioma?

I don't mean to take this off topic I just mean to establish your credibility as to your claims of being their on those days and being part of the recovery efforts.

You say you were a first responder an EMT of some kind correct?... Do you have mesothelioma?





[edit on 15-7-2009 by titorite]

Originally posted by titorite

Originally posted by thedman
pparently have problems with reading comprehension - I Stated it
was on 9/12 for the severed foot.

Many of my friends were involved in the recovery - saw enough horror
to last a lifetime.

Do you have Mesothelioma?

I don't mean to take this off topic I just mean to establish your credibility as to your claims of being their on those days and being part of the recovery efforts.

You say you were a first responder an EMT of some kind correct?... Do you have mesothelioma?





[edit on 15-7-2009 by titorite]

Yet another guy registering as a thread covering a different angle appears, I take what he says with a pinch of salt, i`ll stick to the theory which induced me to start this thread in the 1st place, human body parts 16th of an inch in size being expelled over 400 feet away, and fireman wondering where all the building contents have gone.

No matter how long the fires burnt after or how much debris fell on everything, these accounts are from the day after and all point to one explanation...... Explosions and huge amounts of energy.

Here is a video of 1.4million pounds of force applied to ONE NON RE-INFORCED block of concrete - this is about 650 tons in metric. Now, apply this to the dozens and dozens of HUGE columns with MASSIVE reo along with MASSIVE steel columns - we are talking literally millions, upon millions of pounds of pressure required to simply break the columns. The force required to actually turn these materials to DUST is going to be massively greater again - in the hundreds of millions of tons........the problem therefore is if everything was turned to DUST what was doing the destruction - it was dust falling on dust - how is that possible ?

And if the top section of the building was all that was doing the destruction then this should have remained - but it too was dust.......sooooooo where are the millions upon millions of tons of debris which did the crushing - this should remain as it could not have been crushed - and also been crushing.......


www.geeksaresexy.net...

original link

www.liveleak.com...

reply to post by Seventh


I apologize. As I said before I do not want to derail this topic. It's just that I have been following the words of everyone in the 911 forums and this is the first time I have read the poster in question mention that he was a first responder.

Many first responders saw all kinds of things and suffer all kinds of ailments.

I just wanted to establish the credibility of thedmans claims with this particular question. My guess would be samhouston1886 knows exactly what I am talking about.

thedman claims to of been an EMT responder of some kind who saw the body parts first hand.... I want to establish if he is being honest with us by asking a minor medical question.

Originally posted by titorite
reply to post by Seventh

 

I apologize. As I said before I do not want to derail this topic. It's just that I have been following the words of everyone in the 911 forums and this is the first time I have read the poster in question mention that he was a first responder.

Many first responders saw all kinds of things and suffer all kinds of ailments.

I just wanted to establish the credibility of thedmans claims with this particular question. My guess would be samhouston1886 knows exactly what I am talking about.

thedman claims to of been an EMT responder of some kind who saw the body parts first hand.... I want to establish if he is being honest with us by asking a minor medical question.

My post wasn`t directed at you bud (just noticed you registered at the same time also) it was directed at Thedman, my apologies .

reply to post by titorite


I was relaying an account of some my fellow FF - were detailed to
ambulance to respond to WTC in days after 9/11.

Many of my friends are still too upset about what they saw to talk
about it.

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Seventh

 

You didn't answer me ?

Our ambulance corp responded to WTC site on 9/12 - first thing saw was
severed foot lying admist debris.

Again why didn't you answer?

Um no thedman. In the quoted above you stated it was OUR ambulance.
Also while your FF friends may not be capable of talking about it many other FireFighters have had no problem talking about what they have seen.

Also in the above quote you demand an answer to a question you did not even ask. But I did ask you a question about Mesothelioma.

I asked if you have Mesothelioma?

For the record my sister is a Fire Fighter. She has no problem talking about the Messed up stuff she has seen in her 20 years. From railroad accidents to Katrina when we get to talking about it...sometimes I get more than I bargain for. Most of her buddies are the same way. Desensitized.

So anyways, You have chosen to change your story now.

Now you tell us you were relaying a story about some of your fellow Fire fighters. So what were you doing during that time? Was your unit put on duty? Did you respond too? Have any of your FireFighter or police buddies been on one of these calls involving the recovery of a body part on the top of a sky scraper years after the fact?




[edit on 17-7-2009 by titorite]

Originally posted by audaswe are talking literally millions, upon millions of pounds of pressure required to simply break the columns.

Steel used in the towers varied from 36KSI to about 50KSI. Not several thousand.

The force required to actually turn these materials to DUST is going to be massively greater again - in the hundreds of millions of tons........the problem therefore is if everything was turned to DUST what was doing the destruction - it was dust falling on dust - how is that possible ?

It isn't, the claims that everything was turned into dust come from insane people who believe that some sort of magical space beam using technology nobody has ever seen before (other than a guy who claims he can recreate it but has been saying it for many years) using physics nobody understands for a reason none of us can figure out.

I wouldn't worry about it, the thing that turned most into dust in those buildings was drywall, which covered the entire core. Secondary to that was likely SFRM, which covered every exposed steel section. That's a lot of material to turn into dust. Steel certainly wasn't. If you check on the amount of debris hauled away, the figures come to a reasonable value (more than twice the mass of a tower).

Nothing would surprise me on how far those responsible would go to cover up their tracks, bodies missing, hardly any office furniture debris, and in some cases Thermite would not be enough to cut through the thicker steel beams.

All of the above anomalies can be easily covered with this theory.......



View of a Military Expert: Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed

The airplanes did not a have true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of crushing Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's.

Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the

WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for 102 minutes and WTC 2 for 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly increase the burning temperature down to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F).

Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions.



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e4ebdbe198f1.jpg[/atsimg]



In mid-February in Madrid, the Windsor Tower (see above) burned for over 20 hours, which led to a fire stronger and hotter than that in the WTC, but even the collapses of the Windsor Tower caused by the very strong and long-enduring fire were minimal and limited to the upper floors. If either of the WTC tower had started to collapse because of fires the collapse would have been limited to only a few of the floors and then stopped.

The impossibility of a gravitational collapse is closer seen in other documents. A collapse would produce large pieces, and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete, huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards.

Destruction of the towers by explosions is clear according to the photographs and reports of the eye witnesses. In the picture below, a range of cutting charges have just exploded in the down left sector and a typical white cloud is formed outwards from the wall. Down right, explosions are seen as well. Even a flame is seen.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f445528a6738.jpg[/atsimg]



In video tapes taken of the so-called collapses of the WTC, more explosions of these cutting charges can be seen. The explosions advance quickly, with a gap of a couple of floors, cutting the strong steel pillars in the outer wall. The explosions are timed so that it appears that the tower collapses occur in the same timing as in a gravitational collapse. The explosions are not completely synchronized in timing, probably a few charges are triggered by radio, and other charges explode out of the impulses of one of these charges (infrared, pressure wave).

More challenging problems to the demolition men, however, were the central cores of the buildings and the 47 steel pillars more robust than the ones on the outer rounds. The pillars of the central cores were made of steel even 100 + 100 mm thick, thicker than the side armours of a battle tank. Cutting those, even with explosives, is extremely difficult. One would need to surround the whole pillars, every single pillar on ever

[edit on 16/07/2009 by Seventh]

[edit on 16/07/2009 by Seventh]