Athiests arrogant? seriously?

I'd like to apologize to all decent believers in advance for this. This has nothing to do with you. Thank you.

It seems to me that whenever someone just mentions the word 'atheism,' nearly every major supporters of religion (especially organized religion) jumps on the bandwagon and makes comments like "Ah, yer all just to arrogant to see the truth, you all think you know something, but don't" and "well your young and are just going through some teen angst phase" or even crazy stuff like "You all think your god and invincible, but soon you will see the truth"

Quite frankly, I'm sick of it. Really, by what right do you have to call US arrogant. OK, sure, maybe there are a few of us who needs to shut up and stop whining. But seriously, there are plenty of religious folks who claim "God says this" and "God says that" or "God told me this" and "God told me that."

If something good happens, "It's God's will," and if something bad happens, "ah, well then, God works in mysterious ways."

How does anyone know God says. I'm serious about this, I really want to know. Enlighten me so that I will no longer be arrogant. Oh, and don't you dare say it's in the bible, or Qur'an, or whatever. The Bible says a lot of things... A HELL of a lot of things. And a lot of people say a lot of things that aren't in the religious texts.

Come to think of it, ALL religious texts were written by people. There has not been one good, hard, substantiating evidence that says otherwise. OK, you could say that they were "Inspired by God." but that does not prove a single thing. For all we know, the bibles could have been written on a seriously messed up acid trip mixed with some shrooms and weed. (no offense to reefers, But seriously, some stuff shouldn't be mixed ) (I don't smoke btw)

For all we know It could have gone like this:

[MODERN REENACTMENT]

"Dude, I'm totally trippen' out right now. This stuff's pretty strong."

"Dude you should TOTALLY wright down what you're seeing right now. It'd be AWESOME!"

"Right on!"

[END]

I'm not sayn' that's what happened. Could've though. It's a possibility. (actually that would be pretty awesome)

And what's this about bashing young atheists? Why is nearly everything a young atheist says a "phase" or "teen angst." Why is it always "You kids may think you know everything, but wait 'till your older."?

Yeah, there are a lot of really dumb kids out there, I'm not going to lie, and a lot of them seem to worry about really trivial things. But There are no more dumb kids then there are dumb adults:

en.wikipedia.org...

And just because some of the things they say may seem trivial to you doesn't mean they're actually trivial. Listen to kids for God(less) sake! or else you may end up with something like this little extremity:

en.wikipedia.org...

but that's beside the point.

I'm 20, btw, and NEVER have I claimed to know everything. I've ALWAYS tried to be humble and open minded. yeah I've said some stupid things and I'm still due for some some stupid things to say. But NEVER on the subject on religion. Even before my 'conversion' to atheism, I've taken open mindedness seriously. VERY seriously. I've always kept quiet about my beliefs and will still keep them, more or less, to myself. God was always beside the fact to me, I always just try to be a good civil person (but perhaps being a liberal Quaker sort of helped with that). I still do, just without a god.

Long story short: keep your generalized assumptions to yourself. We atheists don't know there's no god (though, I admit, a lot of us do), we just don't see any substantial evidence. And if we happen to be wrong in seeking truth may I be struck by her invisible pink hoof...

I'm still here.

All hail the Invisible Pink Unicorn!
And may all be touched by his Noodly Appendages!

(I feel better now)

[edit on 7/13/09 by Redajin]

reply to post by Redajin


I do want to comment on the statement about young people going through phases. As a former young person, I can attest that I went through many phases of belief and non-belief. I was a debunker in UFOs and the paranormal and thought it was all nonsense too.

I have had many life experiences to shape who I am. When I was in my 20s, many of my toughest times were yet to happen, so I had a different mindset than I do now. When older people state that one is still young, they usually mean that in terms of life experiences. There may be those who live a quiet life and have no real traumatic experiences that change their lives. Most of us usually are the opposite. You may be a total atheist right at this moment, but you may have a personal experience that the logical scientific community cannot explain.

I have also had an out of body experience (OBE), so I know there is much more than materialistic science is teaching us. I also am not a dogmatic person, so I do not fall into the usual stereotypical atheist view of what a spiritual person is. After that major experience, I do know there is a soul. I do not know where people go when they die or if any dogmatic religion is correct, but I do know there is more than this life.

You are correct that many religious and dogmatic people have a certain view of atheists, just as atheists have the same types of views of anyone who espouses a belief in something. The reality is both sides should come to understand and respect one another. There are truths in pure logic and truths in pure magic. The quest for knowledge sorts out both and accepts what is true.

reply to post by kidflash2008


I understand that people go through many stages and beliefs in their youth. I'm just talking about people who say "your young, therefore what you say is a yet valid opinion and should not be taken seriously." the phase has been said so many times that people say it without even thinking about it.

basically this is just a rant against those who simply negatively label someone when they don't feel making a decent civilized argument, and not seeing the hypocrisy they cause because of it. So really if you switched the roles in the rant, it would still make the same point.

PS: you gotta talk to me about OBE, never had that experience, though I find it very interesting. I have a theory linking such things like OBE to Lucid dreaming:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would value your input.

[edit on 7/13/09 by Redajin]

[edit on 7/13/09 by Redajin]

I do hope that I do not offend my atheist friends. We agree to disagree.

I see many more reasons to believe there is a God than not to believe.

There is arrogance in the members of any belief system. I see no reason for this to change.

It is a turn off to see a person being arrogant or hateful concerning his beliefs.

Even though I'm a Christian I Have been treated very badly by other supposed Christians who have a difference of opinion in the interpretation of the Holy Bible.

I believe that respect for a persons belief is of utmost importance.

Originally posted by dizziedame

There is arrogance in the members of any belief system. I see no reason for this to change.

That I agree with. Just the statement "What you can't see won't hurt you" is very arrogant.

Atheists and religious are just as arrogant as each other. If there's only one thing we can reliably believe in is uncertainty

I'm just gonna say - - when I get into certain discussions and say "I am not Christian by choice" - - the usual response is: "So you are an Atheist""

I am not Atheist - nor am I Christian. However - I can believe evolved energy beings come to earth to enlighten us - - and one could possibly be one who is called Jesus.

-knocks on the door-

Hi...I am a Pagan...my name is Daniel...I believe highly in my faith

oh hey I forgot one thing...you as an atheist are JUST as good as I am and I respect you in ways you may never know...

Just wanted you to know there are other religious folks here that respect you

Please notice as I exit you will hear nothing about how much better you would be with my goddess...have a fine day friend :-p

-Kyo

reply to post by Redajin


I agree with you that all points and views should be looked as valid. Just because one is young, does not mean their views should be ignored.

I have discussed my OBE in many threads here. Basically, here is what happened:

I started to have an attack and called 911. On the way to the hospital, I started to feel quite strange and weird. I have had dizzy spells, but this was completely different. I stated to myself: "Oh, Sh#t! I'm dying". I was wondering if I would just fade out when I felt that I was leaving my body. I could see it underneath me and it was completely limp. The lights and sounds were more vivid, and not noisy like real life. I started to hover near the ceiling outside of the hospital and was wondering where my journey would take me. I then started to think about how much I would miss my family and my boys. Then I was whisked back into my body.

I did investigate what happened and found:

1. I was not given any type of drug or narcotic.

2. I was given regular air and not pure oxygen (that is the norm to give the usual nitrogen mixture that everyone breathes).

3. I verified the above by talking to the doctors and emergency crew.

While my body did not stop working, my soul had left it. As I stated before, I have had dizzy spells and this was not one of those. My mind was alert and I knew what was happening at all times. This was not a dream.

I am not a religious fanatic nor do I care what other people believe in. You won't get an argument here. I will tell you that I believe in God. One reason is that I can not believe that we are on this earth for nothing, that we die that is it, nothingness. Why would we even exist?

reply to post by Redajin


Amen, brother. Or Should I say Aten? Or Amun [Ra]? Hehe.

I consider myself an agnostic-atheist because, well the christians are right, I don't know there isn't a god, but if I had to venture a guess, I'd say - by looking around at the world and the indifference of nature - that the chance of (a) god(s) existing are minimal at best..




reply to post by kidflash2008


Dude I lost all respect for you when you plainly missed the message in the op. I could tell by this statement.

I have also had an out of body experience (OBE), so I know there is much more than materialistic science is teaching us.

Now, OBEs are fine (I've had one myself), so that's not the issue. What is is two little words.
" I KNOW "

No. No, you don't. You don't because your experience is unverifiable in it's nature. You can't know that was your disembodied soul or whether it was specific parts of you're brain shutting down and certain changes in brain chemistry.
Considering that many elements of OBE's are recreatable in the lab, especially the feeling of disembodiment, visions, bliss & peace. Combine that with the contradictory meaning place on them - Christians see Christ - Buddhists see Buddha, Hindus may see Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva or all three. It means that any "enlightenment" or visions are nonsense. The assumption that a soul is involved without skepticism is what makes the religious so pathetic in the first place.

It's this kind of narrow mindedness that made me select my current signature.

If you proclaim absolute truth, you are wrong!

Quod Gratis asseritur, Gratis negatur... Think about it.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard


The statement is meant that there is more to life than we see in this reality. I do not really know much beyond what some call the "Otherworld", but I do know there is more to this life than we think there is.

What it is, I do not know. I have never in my statements claimed any absolute truths.

They may have been able to do some experiments in a lab, but I do know what I experienced.

I also feel more empathy toward the people who have experienced abductions now after they are repeatedly told what they experience is not real.

[edit on 7/15/2009 by kidflash2008]

reply to post by kidflash2008

What it is, I do not know. I have never in my statements claimed any absolute truths.

Never claimed any absolute statements? What a crock. I seem to remember you declaring this:

After that major experience [OBE], I do know there is a soul.

No.... No, you do not.


I also wish to address this.

so I know there is much more than materialistic science is teaching us.

That's because science is an on going process of knowledge building, we don't understand everything, but that doesn't mean that things that are "unexplainable" by science are supernatural.

DERP.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard


Since I have experienced my OBE, I personally know there is a soul. I cannot prove it, or explain what is really is. That is one statement I will stick with.

What I tried to state is I am not arrogant or think I know everything. However, I do have somethings that I do know, and that is I have a soul in the same way as I know the Earth revolves around the Sun.

I will amend the statement to state:

I have made some absolute statements but will also state that I do not know everything. How is that?

PS I think we are two people on opposite sides of the spectrum. That is one reason I changed my avatar to reflect my beliefs in a more mystic and supernatural realm.

[edit on 7/15/2009 by kidflash2008]

reply to post by kidflash2008


I cracked up reading that your post. Watch this...


"I am not arrogant"
Contradictory with..
"I personally know there is a soul."


Let me make this absolutely clear to you. You cannot "know" (as in as knowledge) something that is indemonstrable and has no evidence.

You had an OBE. You choose to interpret that OBE as absolute proof of a soul, when in reality it was a subjective experience - not evidence, let alone proof.

As I have said, I have had an OBE, and I "personally know" that a lot (probably all) of what I experienced has rather pedestrian, yet demonstrable explanations. An example. The 'feeling' of floating and being outside of ones own body, ie. the mind is disembodied, is an effect that is linked with sensory systems in the brain. When that system malfunctions, the brain may loose awareness of the body. I was sick one time, sitting on the couch and this happened. It's no more mystical or supernatural than Deja vu. Just a malfunction.


What I find rather revealing about you is that you were not even aware of these facts. After your OBE, did you investigate at all what science had to say on the matter? Or did you consider it irrelevant as you'd already made up your mind that it was proof of a soul? My money is on the latter.

I have made some absolute statements but will also state that I do not know everything. How is that?

I shouldn't have to say it twice. If you proclaim absolute truth, you are wrong.

Quod Gratis asseritur, Gratis negatur.
"what is asserted without reason may be denied without reason"

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Welfhard]

Man I totally agree with you and im 16 people keep saying im arrogant for thinking there is no god. But how can people like that be so arrogant and call us wrong when they believe in something that was probably written by people that were dying of dehydration and the sun was baking them to death. They were out in the sun all day. They barely had a good source of food and water. So we are arrogant?? NOO the people that enforce the bibles beliefs and hate on the atheists are the arrogant ones we actually look for an answer to what happens instead of going on and saying god sure helped me. Thanks to god i am a better person. Its NOT BECAUSE OF GOD. THEY DID IT THERESELVES PEOPLE NEED TO START APPRECIATING EARTH AND THEMSELVES BECAUSE ITS NOT GOD THAT KEEPS YOU ALIVE AND BREATHING. ITS YOU!!!! STOP GIVING A FICTIONAL CHARACTER ALL THE CREDIT!!!! HES JUST LIKE SANTA AND THE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE LITTLE CHILDREN THAT STILL BELIEVE EVENTUALLY YOU'LL REALIZE HE IS NOT REAL!!!!!!

reply to post by ahnggk


that is true but believing in logic is alot better than believe in a book of stories. What i dont understand about religions is how does one religion think its the right one when there are so many religions to go by you can never know which is the true one. if i had to choose any at all it would be Buddhism or Hinduism there beliefs dont sound so arrogant and stupid but im an atheist.

reply to post by lycanlance


I'm not saying that I'm aligned to any religion.

I'm merely stating that we should not be arrogantly thinking that we don't have to do business with the unseen and unknown. I'm not actually limiting that statement to religious matters only. It could be anything including things of scientific relevance.

Great inventions didn't exist on its own. Someone had an idea, someone had imagined something that didn't existed before...

I am an inventor myself, I am known in my country as the guy who built an all-terrain 8-legged walker that can climb stairs, turn within its length, and walk on any surface using only two motors...

The way I think, I like see that anything is possible unless otherwise proven. That helps me a lot in creativity. A very narrow view of life with limited possibilities stifles creativity.

My point is, keeping our options open is more beneficial to mankind than otherwise. You have solid faith in this particular religion, or you don't believe in a God... It's the same thing

See if this works ignore the text


Alright I'll leave the above text up.

Listen and watch, and realize people who think the same as you OP.



[edit on 16-7-2009 by Republican08]