Ebola Virus found in Pigs

reply to post by rogerstigers


Right but it's not a flu. Like, salamanders and flamingos are both chordates but they can't reproduce or mutate together because their proteins are different, they are different groups of organisms. It's like that with flus and Ebola-Marburg. They are just different. I don't think they can combine.

There are some viral hemorrhagic things, flus. Apparently the 1918 flu had hemorrhagic sumptoms. It wasn't a hemorrhagic fever like Marburg or Ebola though. It was still a flu.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


en.wikipedia.org...

www.scripps.edu...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

www.bloomberg.com...

www.who.int...

Here's some more on this CultureD:

Ebola Virus Found in Pigs, Infects Farm Workers

Thank you for finding and reporting on this. Scary stuff indeed.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9b7cba6b955c.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 13-7-2009 by WhiteWash]

reply to post by downtown436


I've done lots of research on Ebola. I know what it is. I don't know what point you're making.

www.scientificamerican.com...

It could become something that could spread more easily. I never said that wasn't true.

It couldn't become a form of influenza and I don't think it could mutate in conjunction with a type of influenza because they are in different families. They are even in different orders.

Dont know much when it comes to this area(biologically) so thanks ravenshadow for your input! I dont know much about what this means or states so some more knowledge would be great...is this saying ebola can influence influenza en.wikipedia.org... and www.jstor.org... you know more than me when it comes to this so telling me they have nothing in common ie mutating is good enough for me!

reply to post by ravenshadow13


You're absolutely correct- the viruses are massively different in form and function. As I said, though, pigs are walking bioreactors, and we just don't KNOW enough about nucleic acid exchange within them in different viruses. My concern is that something could drive a selective event that would allow for it- even a bacteriophage that was invaded by both viruses, and then created a plasmid that was reasssorted and picked up.

I doubt it will happen. But I think it's worth being aware of- not to fear, but to be vigilant in our observations- that was the core of my post.

reply to post by Solomons


Haha, molecular and cellular biology isn't my thing but I'll try.

Here are the links you sent:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.jstor.org...

The wikipedia article is talking about a protein, NS1, that influenza has which is able to alter the immune response in cells so the influenza virus can reproduce easily and take over more cells. It basically allows the virus to reproduce quickly in cells.

The other article from JSTOR is kind of complicated but I think I've got it. What they did was they were trying to figure out what a specific Ebola protein, VP35, does because they wanted to find a way to identify a certain type of molecule in cells that fights off viruses. It functions the same way in lots of viruses but the actual protein is different in each one. What they did was they used an assay, which is a type of test, and they used the Influenza delNS1 virus. This virus lacks the NS1 protein described in Wiki which means that it doesn't replicate itself as fast and it lacks the kind of protein the scientists wanted to identify. But if the flu is exposed to a virus NS1 protein or a type of herpes protein, it can start replicating really fast like it did have NS1.
With me so far?
So what they did is they took some cells from the kidneys of dogs and put the Ebola proteins in it. Then they stuck some of the influenza in the cell that lacked the NS1. And the Ebola made the influenza virus replicate a ton. The Ebola protein also blocked some immune responses in the cell.
So they think the Ebola protein inhibits the cells that produce the immune response.
So it means that both Ebola and Influenza have these proteins which weaken the immune systems of cells in a specific way. They also identified a herpes simplex protein that acts the same way.

It's not the same protein in each of the three viruses, but it acts the same way. Does that make sense?

They couldn't take over each other, really, because I don't think viruses contain the molecule that these proteins inhibit. So they wouldn't affect each other. And I don't think they could combine or anything...

The influenza used in the experiment that lacks NS1 is weird and I think it's probably useless and harmless because it doesn't reproduce well by itself. It means if you have Ebola and you have that weird sort of influenza, it would make the influenza reproduce like normal influenza. That's what it looks like, but I don't know how many other proteins from the virus they used.

H5N1 has the NS1. And I guess Swine Flu does because it is a combo of Influenza A and C, and both of them have it. It's possible that this delNS1 flu doesn't really exist, it was made in a lab by scientists who removed the NS1 protein just to use it in the assay trying to figure out what the Ebola protein did. I mean, the report said it doesn't reproduce well. It would be a really weak flu if it did exist. The last link makes it sound like it's lab made, and that it doesn't reproduce well. For our purposes, it's not real influenza. I don't think any dangerous influenzas would mutate to lose this protein because they wouldn't be able to replicate anymore. Seems like they want to use it for tumor therapy though.

Good?


en.wikipedia.org...
cancerres.aacrjournals.org...


[edit on 7/13/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Ebola is a relatively simple virus- as are all filoviruses, ironically, and they do share nucleic acis freely withitn their own 'species".

Eola is quickly killed by UV, can't last, as tb or flu can, on a doorknob, etc. for hours, let alone days.

If, however, Ebola is "stregthened' by other genes- name it- cancer, flu, hanta, smallpox, etc., it CAN achieve a slightly longer robustness in UV- again, still nothing compared to tb or flu. Think about what's ben weaponized, though. Isn't it possible- NOT probable, but possible- that a hardy virus like a coronavirus or a similar family, could allow a few ebola genes to "jump ship" and integrate into a flu in swine?

Again- I'm not fear mongering. I'm suggesting that it is POSSIBLE- not PROBABLE that there could be a transposon tango in swine and certain genes could swap?

The "good news' is that Ebola in its pure state burns so quickly through a population, it rarely breaks out of a small community, because it kills too quickly.

But ebola HAS been weaponized- by the US, UK, Russia, and others. People have tried to make it robust (giving it a chance to infect a broad area before burning out). Flu is the opposite- it doesn't kill its host too quickly, and therefore, circles the globe like a satellite. If there's any remnant at all of weaponized Ebola in these pigs, and there's an /H1N1 infection in the hogs, a modified Ebola COULD mix with other viruses, no matter how different they are from it.

I'm planning on this not happening- I'm merely supporting my conjecture. Selective pressure on the pigs (due to corporate farming) could also drive a new A/H1N1, Ebola, notwithstanding. If the Ebola weakens the herd, flu can be more opportunisitic- more chances for mutations.

Overall it's not a comfortable thought, so I'm relying on a non-weaponized Ebola strain and un-contaminated swine....

reply to post by CultureD


In the study I read before, it sounded like if Ebola and this specific form of Influenza that lacks NS1 were in the same organism, the Influenza would reproduce more and the Ebola would just be Ebola.

But we need to remember that any virus or infection will weaken the immune system of the host and make them more likely to contract, and have more severe effects from, any other infection.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Agreed. The chances of them combining are pretty slim given the divergance in genome. I was speaking mainly in hypotheticals given the way that virus reproduces (i.e. a genetic soup in the cell that is reassembled). It's not likely in the best of circumstances, but with the fast infection rate of the Ebola strains, it is less likely.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Perfect! cheers ravenshadow for clearing that up for me...atleast there is one less thing for me to get paranoid about on ATS.Your post made sense.

reply to post by Solomons


Thanks! I was worried it wouldn't. Condensing and translating scientific speak is hard!!! And I'm on Summer break. I feel like that should have been graded.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


It was. I gave you an 86. You got points off for punctuation and not using a #2 pencil.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Us crazy scientists would be happy to take a year long vacation so you can try to figure out a cure for these terrible things.

I'm sick of people giving us a bad name just because the majority of the world population is not intelligent enough/ informed enough to understand what the purpose of our research is. A little more reading and a little less bashing.

I can guarantee that Ebola was and never will be purposely released. It's even too scary to be used as a bioweapon.

Originally posted by CultureD
reply to post by ravenshadow13

 

You're absolutely correct- the viruses are massively different in form and function. As I said, though, pigs are walking bioreactors, and we just don't KNOW enough about nucleic acid exchange within them in different viruses. My concern is that something could drive a selective event that would allow for it- even a bacteriophage that was invaded by both viruses, and then created a plasmid that was reasssorted and picked up.

I doubt it will happen. But I think it's worth being aware of- not to fear, but to be vigilant in our observations- that was the core of my post.

Impossible. Bacteriophages (as their name implies) infect only bacteria. What you are referring to is a virus attacking a virus (which with only a few cases recreated in a lab setting only... never happened in nature).

The only thing to worry about here is the very, very slim chance that the ebola and the h1n1 share a gene that codes for a virulence factor that is very similar (but not 100% similar) in both. We do KNOW a lot about RNA genome mutations and reassortment. What we can't do is predict.

Research Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms, thats how RNA viruses mutate.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I think you and I are making the same points from two different perspectives! I'm not suggesting a flu-Ebola organism any more than I would suggest a hippo-elephant! I do think, though, that we ultimately know so very little about nucleic acid sharing between viruses- even massively different strains, with NOTHING in common- that I find it wrth paying attention to- that's all.

I remember many, many years of molecular biology courses when we made chimeras- and it scared the hell out of me, truthfully- that doesn't mean they are viable, nor that they could be pathogenic or contagious- merely that at the level of nucleic acids, things get very odd- not unlike quantum mechanics "spooky action at a distance".

Your info is excellent and I'm glad you posted it- I'm not qestioning you at ALL- I'm merely wondering aloud if the possiblity exists for gene sharing under immense selective pressure. I'm hoping and praying that the events don't occur- merely that the infection is happeing at an unusual time, in an unusual host, and ought to be carefully monitored, as we can't know if some ascpect of either virus can interfere with the other to creat mutations, opportunistic infections on top of the two that exist, etc.

I love our dialogue- and I think we're operating from the same place, with two viewpoints-

thanks for your research

reply to post by retroviralsounds


Actually, Ebola has been, and is weaponized in various sites in the world. Whoever thought that was a good idea was not sane, but it's true. I had a clearance some years ago and can verify it. (believe me or not- doesn't matter. But add smallpox, plague, tularemia, Marburg, Lassa, Q-fever, and many others stored at -80 in a few labs scattered around the country and the world).

Edit:
After working in academic and pharamceutical labs I worked at a Government lab. I was pumped full of vaccines, had to surrender my passport and lived on Cipro for a good year. I can't imagine what all of that has done to my body- perhaps the multiple spine injuries I have are a by-product- I can't say. But as I said above, it is absoluely true that nearly every pathogen one can think of that creates terrible illness and death has been weaponized, despite the Contravention that is in place against biological warfare- it is now happily hidden in the semantics of "bio defense". If you'd lie to see for yourself, go to work in CDC, Oak Ridge Natl Lab, Argonne Natl Lab, Los Alamos Natl Lab, Lawrence, USAMRIID you name it. Once you have a clearance you, too can give up your halth and safety to try to help people (because that's what we scientist do, right??) and you'll find that NO ONE gives a damn for your health- just that you keep your mouth shut, while we quietly find ways to destroy the Earth.

This is no "conspiracy theory"- sorry to disappoint- but truth. And it's getting pretty tiring to try to post any truth on this site- the reason I joined it was for civilized dialogue and the sharing of information. Instead I'm finding an awful lot of people who just want someone to blame for their troubles. I don't know how much endurance I have for the continuation of what feels like urinating up a flagpole.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by CultureD]

reply to post by retroviralsounds


SNPs are exactly what I'm worried about- and forgive my typo re: bacteriophages- I'm aware they infect only viruses.

PS- I know this is all critical info- but I ask for one break- that you correct my typos, etc., with compassion. My left hand doesn't work due to spinal surgey (one of the reasons I'm no longer in the business), so between the Dilauded and the numbness, I occassionally flip thoughts or words. I appreciate your correction- just be kind- I'm in enough hell, as it is.

Thanks

reply to post by ravenshadow13


BTW,
I have a PhD in protein biochemistry, so I'm "with you" and don't need a bio lecture- was hoping for a discussion rather than contention, without having to share my bona fides, nor the reasons I can no longer practice the science I spent a lifetime learning.

If you re-read my posts, on the whole I agreed with you, but in language you chose not to read- or perhaps the fault was mine for being less than articulate, due to pain and disability.

Either way, we're on the same team, here. I'm not a little surpirsed and slightly hurt by your tone- you seem far too intelligent to make this personal!

Peace, OK?

[edit on 14-7-2009 by CultureD]

Impossible. Bacteriophages (as their name implies) infect only bacteria. What you are referring to is a virus attacking a virus (which with only a few cases recreated in a lab setting only... never happened in nature).

reply to post by retroviralsounds


Yes- bacteriophages infect only viruses- it was my misstype.

However, it DOES happen in nature all the time, and not just in lab settings.

If you'd like I will scan my doctoral notes and U2U them to you to support it.