Burn and sacrfice goats, Eat Flesh and Drink blood, where have i heard that before?

reply to post by unclekrabz


Hi un/

It is a symbolic event of the Old lamb Passover.
I also signifies the sacrifice of Jesus Christ...who was prophesied that this would happen to him.
It is NOT a Human Sacrifice, which is practised by some.

ICXC NIKA
helen

If your symbolically eating his flesh and drinking his blood, what else could it be called than symbolically cannibalism?

I agree your not actually doing the deed, but you are "symbolically".

I also see that it doesn't actually mean your drinking his blood, but then why use that term in the first place?


[edit on 9-7-2009 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by breakingdradles


During Jesus's Time...The Celebration of the Passover was a slaughtered lamb...Big difference to a SLAUGHTERED human BEING?
How can ONE act of Murder of a HUMAN be cosidered that of the SAME celebrated Eucharist?



He was the final passover lamb, "the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29).
The breaking of the bread pointed to the imminent breaking of His own body and the shedding of His own blood on the Cross,
"for you and for many, for the remission of sins."
He was the ultimate deliverance from all bondage.(AS it was prophersied in the Old Testament )
He was the new and final Passover,
the Passover from death to life and from earth to heaven ..."the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29).

‘Look, this is the Lamb of God.’ (John 1:29)...It is a Reminder to all Christians that Jesus Christ WAS the MESSIAH who was to be SLAUGHTERED like the Lamb at Passover....It was a PROPHECY fulfilled after thousands of Years fore told by the Prophets and the Saints!

And he took bread,
and gave thanks,
and break it,
and gave unto them,
saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying,
This cup is the NEW TESTAMENT in my blood,
which is shed for you. Luke 22:19-20 ...He knew He was to be Crucified but also with His Resurrection DESTROY death that came into all mankind!


And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house... Acts 2:46

And upon the first day of the week....
Paul preached unto them....Their reason for coming together was to do that which Christ had ordained as his memorial.
Paul was available to preach the word of Christ to them at the same time....This do in remembrance of me. I Corinthians 11:24
Weekly Eucharist~By Paul Duggan~

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by breakingdradles


i think you've got a point there. i had noticed that myself.
strikes me that the symbolic cannibalism of xty is very similar to the ancient pagan religions where cannibalism was non symbolic.

also, the phonecians used to sacrifice a child apparantly over an altar/bowl to catch its blood that is supposed to be similar to a baptismal font,...which really makes you think. i hope baptism is symbolic of anything but im now kind of glad i was never baptised.. (source: childress: lost cities of central and north america. cant remember the page no.)

altho i just want to say i totally believe in the PRINCIPLES of xty and its teachings as a code to live by i.e. love thy neighbour etc.

i just wonder about hte "ritual trappings' of the religion, rather than its message..

reply to post by rapunzel222


Hi rapunzel/

What is it that you noticed yourself?
Please tell us?

Last time I remember a baptism was done in WATER.... "But to all who received him,
who believed in his name,
he gave power to become children of God; who were born,
not of blood,
nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

As St. Paul says: "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death.
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death,
so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father we, too, ...
might walk in newness of life" (Rom 6:3-4).....
If you no nothing of what a baptism is, then why say something of which makes no sense?
A Baptism,the Priest says,
"Do you renounce Satan,
and all his angels,
and all his works,
and all his services,and all his pride?"
Then an actuyal exorcism is performed....Prayers are read!
The exorcisms announce the forthcoming Baptism as an act of victory. The renouncing of Satan is done facing west because the west is where the
sun disappears,
and was regarded by the ancient Greeks as the place of the gates of Hades. Then the priest faces east whence the light of the sun rises and asks the godparent to accept for the child Him who is the Light of the World:
"Do you unite yourself to Christ!"
The renunciation of Satan and the union with Christ express our faith that the newly-baptised child has been transferred from one master to another, from Satan to Christ,
from death to life...DEATH no longer has no hold!

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by octotom
We don't literally eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood. It's a symbol..

In the Catholic Church it is fully believed that Christ is the holy communion. Body, blood, soul, and divinity. Not in protestant churches. But yes, in Catholic Churches.

This is based upon John 6 - 'unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will not have eternal life in you'. And at the last supper when Christ said 'this is my body .. this is my blood'. He didn't say 'this symbolizes my body ... ' He said IT IS my body.

The Doctrine of the Real Presence

Christ in the Eucharist

"‘I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’" (John 6:51–52).

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).

When Christ says 'amen, amen ..' he means it.
No where does he say 'it's a symbol'.
No where at the last supper does he say 'this bread is LIKE my body'.
He says ... it IS my body.

Even a modestly informed Catholic can set an inquirer right and direct him to biblical accounts of Jesus’ final night with his disciples. Turning to the text, we read, "And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me’" (Luke 22:19).

The Greek here and in the parallel Gospel passages (Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22) reads: Touto estin to soma mou. Paul’s version differs slightly: Touto mou estin to soma (1 Cor. 11:24). They all translate as "This is my body." The verb estin is the equivalent of the English "is" and can mean "is really" or "is figuratively." The usual meaning of estin is the former (check any Greek grammar book), just as, in English, the verb "is" usually is taken literally.

Fundamentalists insist that when Christ says, "This is my body," he is speaking figuratively. But this interpretation is precluded by Paul’s discussion of the Eucharist in 1 Corinthians 11:23–29 and by the whole tenor of John 6, the chapter where the Eucharist is promised. The Greek word for "body" in John 6:54 is sarx, which means physical flesh, and the word for "eats" (trogon) translates as "gnawing" or "chewing." This is certainly not the language of metaphor.

That's where the 'real presence' doctrine comes from.

As for the Catholic Mass (and I think the Episcopal and Orthodox as well??? Not sure) ... it is considered a 'bloodless sacrifice'. More information here

Eucharistic Miracles take place all over the world.
This is when the host of bread turns to flesh or it starts bleeding.
The Catholic Church investigates and 'approves' or 'disproves' them.

Here is one website that discusses them.

Lanciano Italy is one of the more famous ones.

Betania Venezuela is a modern day one. I don't know if it has been investigated yet. I have actually seen this eucharistic miracle behind glass where it is enshrined in the wall of a convent/church in Venezuela.

Originally posted by silent thunder
common reaction among many to sushi was to turn up one's nose at the context of "raw fish."

Sushi is not 'raw', that implies it is covered in bacteria. Sushi is always FROZEN, which kills the bacteria, so it is not technically raw. Uncooked is a better word.

Originally posted by dizziedame
There are some societies that do drink cows blood. My father showed me once when I was a young girl how they used a reed to penetrate the vein of the animal and get the blood. He drank it and had no ill effects.

In the Norse berserker rites one had to kill either a bear or a wolf with his bare hands, and drink the blood, and which you chose would be your 'spirit animal', meaning you would either take on the quality of speed and cunning, or endurance and strength.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by Ridhya]

I am a younger mason...We got to eat a large delicious meal before the initiations but not exactly a goat...

reply to post by helen670


i was talking to the originating poster. i had noticed myself that the symbolism of xtn mass with blood and body of christ and eating it resembles on a symbolic level, the actual cannibalistic sacrificial religions and pagan religions where they really did eat the blood and body of someone.

i never said that xtn baptism was not done with water. i know its done with water. i think everyone knows that. childress noted that the phonecian ritual of child sacrifice used a bowl to catch the blood, that i think he said resembled a baptismal bowl or something. you can read exactly what he said in his book if you can find the page. it just struck me as interesting in light of this discussion. i am not saying the two are necessarly connected, i just found it interesting.

reply to post by rapunzel222


Hi rapun/

The practise of Ritual MURDERS in practse of certain beleifs still go on!
It makes me sick to even think about it!
Jesus Christ was AGAINST such rituals...
here are a few to ponder on....

I know thy works,
and tribulation,
and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
and are not,
but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:9.....What exactly is meant by these words...
I'm not asking, but making a statement so that one can read and understand the words.

Christ shall be slain,
and the people who shall deny Him shall not be His....again...what is meant by 'Not His'....again, not asking for an answer, but read and learn!
Daniel 9:26

The Gentiles ... have attained to justice,
even to the justice which is of the faith.
But Israel ... has not come unto the law of justice.
Why so? Because they sought it not by faith ... For they stumbled at the Stumbling Stone.
Romans 9:30-32

Many shall come from the East and West and sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of Heaven,
but the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 8:11-12...another great example of those that follow WORDLY IDEAS...

God,
Who ... in times past spoke by the prophets,
last of all in these days hath spoken to us by His Son ... Last of all,
He sent them His Son,
saying: "They will reverence My Son" ... But,
taking Him,
they cast Him forth and killed Him.
When therefore the Lord shall come,
what will He do to those men? ... He will bring those evil men to an evil end,
and he will let out His vineyard to other husbandmen who shall render Him fruit in due season ...
Therefore I say to you,
that the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you and given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof.
Hebrews 1.1-2, Matthew 21:37-43....These WORDS are very prophetic if one needs to understand what they truly mean!

Christ annuls the first Covenant to establish the Second.
Hebrews 10:9

My people did not hear My voice,
and Israel harkened not to Me ... They gave Me gall for My food,
and in My thirst they gave Me vinegar to drink ... Let their eyes be darkened,
and their back bend down always.
Pour out Thy indignation upon them: let Thy wrathful anger take hold of them.
Let their habitation be made desolate,
and let there be no One to dwell in their tabernacles,
because they have persecuted Him Whom Thou hast smitten,
and they have added to the grief of My wounds.
Add Thou iniquity upon their iniquity; and let them not come into Thy justice.
Let them be blotted out of the Book of the Living,
and with the Just let them not be written.
Psalm 80:12,68:22-29....VERY Prophetic WORDS,one only needs to understand what they mean!

You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears,
you always resist the Holy Ghost; as your fathers did,
so do you also.
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?
And they have slain them who foretold the coming of the Just One,
of Whom you have now been the betrayers and murderers.
Acts 7:51-52.......Is there yet an understanding of these Words?

They have rejected Me,
that I should not reign over them ...
They have forsaken Me and served strange gods.
1 Kings 8:7-8........SERVED Strange gods INDEED!!!
Could THIS still be happening?

Let their eyes be dim so that they cannot see,
and let them walk bent-backed forever with a heavy load.
Psalm 68:24........Again....eyes dim, so that they cannot see?
If one has no faith and hope in GOD,ONE ALSO WALKS blindly, and sees not the TRUTH!

Thou shalt eat bread ... and cover it with the dung that cometh out of a man ... Thus shall the children of Israel eat their bread all filthy among the nations wither I will cast them out, saith the Lord.
Ezekiel4:12-13...ANOTHER warning of what Strange gods does to one that worships not God!

They shall not please the Lord ... and their sacrifices shall be like the bread of mourners: all who eat it shall be defiled.
Osee 9:4.again....Sacrifices are made to STRANGE gods.

There are MANY passages in the Bible refering to the worship of STRANGE gods, is this still a practise amongst us.

Jesus Christ STOPPED this practise to those that had ears to listen, and eyes to see.....
Why this is still going on remains hidden till all will be exposed!

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by rapunzel222
reply to post by helen670

 

i was talking to the originating poster. i had noticed myself that the symbolism of xtn mass with blood and body of christ and eating it resembles on a symbolic level, the actual cannibalistic sacrificial religions and pagan religions where they really did eat the blood and body of someone.

i never said that xtn baptism was not done with water. i know its done with water. i think everyone knows that. childress noted that the phonecian ritual of child sacrifice used a bowl to catch the blood, that i think he said resembled a baptismal bowl or something. you can read exactly what he said in his book if you can find the page. it just struck me as interesting in light of this discussion. i am not saying the two are necessarly connected, i just found it interesting.

Hi rapunz/
Sorry I got sidetracked,but it is interesting that you mentioned

ritual of child sacrifice used a bowl to catch the blood, that i think he said resembled a baptismal bowl or something

There was an actual 'post card' of the exact thing you mention....a human being being placed over a bowl after being stabbed,I can't seem to find it.

BLOOD RITUAL, gives us an exegesis of the Purim-fest Book of Esther...

The Murdered victim must die a most cruel and tortured way...
The blood is supposedly dried and powdered and used in mixing into flour to eat ....its sickening and unbelievable....

ICXC NIKA
helen

Seriously? You don't even have a link or reference to anything. How is that this thread is allowed?

Here I'll make a story up....

Monkeys are in fact from the planet Zubaru and are quite observers to see if humans are able to transcend to outer space to join the galactic federation of civilizations!

I'll even go one step further and provide a picture as proof!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9f34b2c12f14.jpg[/atsimg]


Come on now, how can one take this thread serious?

[edit on 25-7-2009 by oconnection]

reply to post by oconnection


Hi ocon/
Seriously,Great picture!
I saw that monkey on 'I dream of Jeanie' and I believe that it is the same one that they sent to the moon,in the series,of-course!


And, were you by any chance adressing your question to me?
Oh, I do have links?
Why so Defensive?


ICXC NIKA
helen

Since when do masons sacrifice goats???!!!

Perhaps you are thinking of Santeria?

Hi/


Here is the post card

Picture Postcard widely circulated in Poland showing ritual
murder of Agnes Hruza, age 19.
Jew named Hilsner was found guilty of this crime.
(Date 1899, Story in Chapter 10).

"Soul had they none, nor lineage;
"Nor wit, nor headmen,
"Nor crafts, nor letters,
"Nor e'en a glimpse of God."
- British Edda.

Again, why are you so defensive?
Murderers should be exposed,so people will know the truth.

~Gleanings of the Fathers of Early Ancient Christianity~
He who does not know the truth cannot truly have faith; for by nature knowledge precedes faith.
-St. Mark the Ascetic, "On the Spiritual Law: 200 Texts", #110, The Philokalia Vol. 1

He who does not understand God's judgements walks on a ridge like a knife-edge and is easily unbalanced by every puff of wind.
When praised,
he exults; when criticized,
he feels bitter.
When he feasts,
he makes a pig of himself; and when he suffers hardship,
he moans and groans.
When he understands,
he shows off; and when he does not understand,
he pretends that he does.
When rich,
he is boastful; and when in poverty,
he plays the hypocrite.
Gorged,
he grows brazen; and when he fasts, he bocomes arrogant.
He quarrels with those who reprove him;
and those who forgive him he regards as fools.
- St. Mark the Ascetic,
"On Those who Think that They are Made Righteous by Works: Two Hundred and Twenty-Six Texts", #193, The Philokalia Vol. 1

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by helen670


Negative, I wasn't addressing you directly but the OP. I was stating that he didn't provide any material to back up his claim. If you like you can post some links or sight some books and I'll check it out.

I will admit studying the 33 degree is difficult for the outsider. I've read many books which claim all sorts of amazing things related to this degree. But I honestly feel that they at least a bit far fetched.

Anti-Masons will always point to the 33rd degree because it is the highest degree and there is little known about the this honorary degree.

Secrecy does not prove anything sinister is at play. So those who suspect so, the requirement of proof is on them in my opinion. Which is close to impossible because they do not have first hand knowledge.

There are some who claim to be former 33rd degree Masons then later is it shown that either they never were a Mason or never obtained the degree. So it's like speculating what goes on in black budget projects. One's imagination is it's only limitation.

I'm not defensive in the sense I'm a Mason but rather I feel I've spent a great amount of effort looking into such matters. I also have a number of family members and friends who are/were Masons and find these accusations insulting to there character.

Why is it that an organization that has brought us ideals such as freedom of religion, thought, speech, ect is so threatening to you, personally? Many people overlook that in fact these are Masonic ideals.

When free thinking, science, freedom of religion would cause persecution and at worst, death, a system was needed so these ideas could carry on.

It seems you are intolerant of anyone who does not believe as you. It's ok to believe whatever you want to believe but to persecute and/or speak negatively who holds different beliefs is wrong.

This is why Freemasonry accepts anyone who believes in a higher power. To bring men/woman together with a conman bond.

You really need to expand your narrow focus and study on your own.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by oconnection]

reply to post by oconnection


Hi ocon/

I was actually replying to a member that posted to me about a bowl and blood ritual.

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by helen670
The practise of Ritual MURDERS in practse of certain beleifs still go on!
It makes me sick to even think about it!

which certain beliefs would those be? What groups continue to practice ritual murder today? Please tell us more.

reply to post by JoshNorton



Hi Josh/

Do I have to?
I really dont want to feel sick all over again!




ICXC NIKA
helen