Egyptians angry over German court slaying

Egyptians angry over German court slaying

www.cnn.com

(CNN) -- Hundreds of Egyptians took part Monday in the funeral of Marwa Sherbini, an Egyptian woman who was stabbed to death last week in the German city of Dresden in a crime believed to be racially motivated.

Sherbini, 33, was stabbed to death Wednesday in a courtroom as she prepared to give testimony against a German man of Russian descent whom she had sued for insult and abuse.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This may be a new level of outrage as I am not sure I've heard of this happening before.

As the pressure continues to build up on people daily, I won't be suprised to hear of incidents like this more often.

I guess at the very least all German courthouses will now require people to pass through metal detectors like they do here in the states.

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

don't know the ins and outs of the story, but sounds like a horrible murder- on a wider point, bit rich Egyptian muslims to be agitating as victims when the indigenous Egyptian Coptic Christians suffer such continued abuse and discrimination- sort yer own back yard out before lecturing others

reply to post by blueorder

No, I'm pretty sure Egyptians in Germany are allowed to be a little bit upset when an Egyptian in Germany is killed in a racially motivated attack in the middle of a court room. I agree that Egyptians in Egypt should get their own house in order....but that doesn't mean it's open season on Egyptians worldwide. This argument would be like saying that Jews don't have the right to complain about an anti-Semitic killing in the US until they get things squared away with the Palestinians.

Originally posted by LeoLoeb
No, I'm pretty sure Egyptians in Germany are allowed to be a little bit upset when an Egyptian in Germany is killed in a racially motivated attack in the middle of a court room.

upset at who- the murderer? I daresay most people are upset at murder- they have decided to elevate this murder and try and adopt group mentality as victims

I agree that Egyptians in Egypt should get their own house in order....but that doesn't mean it's open season on Egyptians worldwide.

who is suggesting it is open season on Egyptians worldwide?

This argument would be like saying that Jews don't have the right to complain about an anti-Semitic killing in the US until they get things squared away with the Palestinians.

None of that is comparable with what happened in Germany- this was a lone attacker who murdered a woman and who will then be dealt with by the German courts as murders of EVERYONE in Germany (when apprehended) will be- some Egyptians and Muslims have decided (using such excellent sources as Twitter ffs) to indulge in group mentality and make political capital out of some individual murder

reply to post by blueorder


reply to post by blueorder

None of that is comparable with what happened in Germany- this was a lone attacker who murdered a woman and who will then be dealt with by the German courts as murders of EVERYONE in Germany (when apprehended) will be- some Egyptians and Muslims have decided (using such excellent sources as Twitter ffs) to indulge in group mentality and make political capital out of some individual murder

So since by your own definition "some" Egyptians have done a thing, all Egyptians, everywhere, are culpable? That's wicked fallacious.

This murder was part of a pattern of violence against Egyptians (dark skinned foreigners in general) in Germany (indeed throughout Europe) and, in this case, it took case in a bloody courtroom. There is pretty good reason to be upset about this, and Germany, of all countries, has a pretty good reason to take racially motivated hate crimes seriously.

Originally posted by LeoLoebSo since by your own definition "some" Egyptians have done a thing, all Egyptians, everywhere, are culpable? That's wicked fallacious.

No, not at all, for clarity, SOME EGYPTIANS AND MUSLIMS are making capital out of this, however they should direct their anger at their own nation first (the murderer of this woman will be dealt with by German justice)

This murder was part of a pattern of violence against Egyptians (dark skinned foreigners in general) in Germany (indeed throughout Europe) and, in this case, it took case in a bloody courtroom.

really, oh really, do you have access to stats for western european countries in terms of murderer and murdered and the race in each case- if you have access to those figures could you tell me how many "dark skinned" people murdered "white skinned" people and vice versa- I would be absoloutely delighted to have those stats as I can tell you I do not think it is how you wish it to be

There is pretty good reason to be upset about this, and Germany, of all countries, has a pretty good reason to take racially motivated hate crimes seriously.

I am upset about any murder I do not denegrate one murder under another- this murderer is being processed by the German justice system, but no, these group mentality victim seekers agitate for more division

reply to post by blueorder

No, not at all, for clarity, SOME EGYPTIANS AND MUSLIMS are making capital out of this, however they should direct their anger at their own nation first (the murderer of this woman will be dealt with by German justice)

Dude. WHY? Why should Egyptians who do not live in Egypt direct their anger at the Egyptian government first when an Egyptian is attacked in Germany? Is the Egyptian government oppressing huge numbers of Germans somehow? The statement that "A minority who emigrated from an oppressive country should be angry at his own country first when someone in his immigrant community is murdered" is pure piffle.

really, oh really, do you have access to stats for western european countries in terms of murderer and murdered and the race in each case- if you have access to those figures could you tell me how many "dark skinned" people murdered "white skinned" people and vice versa- I would be absoloutely delighted to have those stats as I can tell you I do not think it is how you wish it to be

I don't wish it to be any particular way. I "wish" there weren't people running around killing each other, period. The German government has repeatedly expressed concern about the rise of rightwing anti-foreigner violence in Germany (where they know a thing or two about rightwing violence). I don't have the stats regarding German on foreigner vs foreigner on German crime handy (nor do you, or you'd have trotted them out already) but I do know that the German government and judicial system has repeatedly expressed concern about the rise of dangerous, young, ultraright racist gangs.

I am upset about any murder I do not denegrate one murder under another- this murderer is being processed by the German justice system, but no, these group mentality victim seekers agitate for more division

The German justice system may well prosecute this as a hate crime. They have in the past. This is not "victim seeking" or whatever socially conservative (I use the small "c" derisively, in the tradition of William F. Buckley Jr) buzzword you want to apply. This is people saying "Hey, maybe you guys could stop killing us for the color of our skin. That'd rule, thanks." And the government and justice system frequently agree with this summation. We will have to see how this case plays out.

Originally posted by LeoLoeb
Dude. WHY? Why should Egyptians who do not live in Egypt direct their anger at the Egyptian government first when an Egyptian is attacked in Germany? Is the Egyptian government oppressing huge numbers of Germans somehow? The statement that "A minority who emigrated from an oppressive country should be angry at his own country first when someone in his immigrant community is murdered" is pure piffle.

Let us deconstruct that argument:

* Why should they direct their anger at GermanY? This was an attack by an individual in a liberal democracy- he has been arrested and is being dealt with (AS ALL MURDERERS IN GERMANY ARE) by the German legal system! What exactly is there to be angry at, the murderer? Why yes, I am angry at murderers, but he is being dealt with as all murderers are, they are merely indulging in the same mentality as the murderer (albeit not violently)- group identity and division

* Egypt is not a liberal democracy and actively oppresses its minority


Lets get the anger focussed here, be angry at the murderer..........ok. he is arrested and being dealt with, now what

I don't wish it to be any particular way. I "wish" there weren't people running around killing each other, period. The German government has repeatedly expressed concern about the rise of rightwing anti-foreigner violence in Germany (where they know a thing or two about rightwing violence). I don't have the stats regarding German on foreigner vs foreigner on German crime handy (nor do you, or you'd have trotted them out already) but I do know that the German government and judicial system has repeatedly expressed concern about the rise of dangerous, young, ultraright racist gangs.

Do not take the establishment comments at face value, the stats would shock both of us, the establishment's job, amongst other things, is to keep a lid on things, by talking about this far right bogeymen, nobody is inflamed and minorities are assuaged

The German justice system may well prosecute this as a hate crime. They have in the past.

I couldn't care less about a "hate crime"- just prosecute it as a "crime"- there should be no elevation of victimhood- why should this woman receive more justice than some pensioner stabbed to death because someone just decided to stab her or wanted her purse.


And in the past we use to run around in caves- this is a nothing sentence- Germany is a modern liberal democracy, Egypt isnt- so this is just bizzarre reasoning and trying to apply group guilt complexes to people of German nationality

This is not "victim seeking" or whatever socially conservative (I use the small "c" derisively, in the tradition of William F. Buckley Jr) buzzword you want to apply.

I deride those who try and hide the meaning of words with recourse to terms such as "socially conservative"

This is people saying "Hey, maybe you guys could stop killing us for the color of our skin. That'd rule, thanks." And the government and justice system frequently agree with this summation. We will have to see how this case plays out.

That does not make sense

* they are asking "you guys" to stop killing "us"- sorry what, which guys, and who is the us? One man stabs a woman, disgusting murder- what is equally disgusting is the group monkies who latch onto it with their group victim bs.

At least in Germany there will be justice- precious little justice for non muslims in Egypt

The most ignorant part of this whole thing is that a person is being sued for an insult. Dueling in Germany is outlawed and going to court is a form of Dueling! Those that can't let a stupid insult roll off their backs and ignoring them are foolish and divisive and the reason for so much trouble between the masses. It is true though that Arab Muslim's seem to think they can murder over an insult so I guess it's not a stretch to think someone would retaliate in kind to stop a foolish lawsuit!

Zindo

reply to post by blueorder

Let us deconstruct that argument:

"Deconstruct" means something. That is not what it means. Read some Derrida, homeboy. He'll drop mad science on ya.

Why should they direct their anger at GermanY? This was an attack by an individual in a liberal democracy- he has been arrested and is being dealt with (AS ALL MURDERERS IN GERMANY ARE) by the German legal system! What exactly is there to be angry at, the murderer? Why yes, I am angry at murderers, but he is being dealt with as all murderers are, they are merely indulging in the same mentality as the murderer (albeit not violently)- group identity and division

They shouldn't, nor are they. They are directing their anger at specific groups within Germany who murder people because of the color of their skin. The German legal system is also pretty put out with these groups and prosecutes them zestfully. This is what the Egyptian community is asking for. It is what will probably happen. I can't imagine why this should bother you, but if it does then, you know, deal with it.

Again, what Egypt does or does not do doesn't come into play here. These are Egyptians who emigrated to Germany. They're German citizens now. Stop holding them guilty for the sins of a country they bloody left.

Do not take the establishment comments at face value, the stats would shock both of us, the establishment's job, amongst other things, is to keep a lid on things, by talking about this far right bogeymen, nobody is inflamed and minorities are assuaged

Translation: If stats were available showing that German national on immigrant crime was disproportionately high and growing at an alarming rate, you would discount those, as they do not fit your thesis. Gotcha.

I couldn't care less about a "hate crime"- just prosecute it as a "crime"- there should be no elevation of victimhood- why should this woman receive more justice than some pensioner stabbed to death because someone just decided to stab her or wanted her purse.

It doesn't matter what you care or do not care about. The German government, a sovereign government, does care about hate crimes and needs to decide whether to prosecute this as such. They probably should.

Germany is a modern liberal democracy, Egypt isnt- so this is just bizzarre reasoning and trying to apply group guilt complexes to people of German nationality

Wow. So because Germany is a modern liberal democracy (who prosecute hate crimes, incidentally, an inconvenient truth from your point of view) Germans should be allowed to kill Egyptian immigrants who are no longer citizens of Egypt and so have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT ANYWAY at will? Just, wow.

I think I have spelled this out repeatedly about as clearly as it can humanly be spelled out. Your only interest is in prosecuting a bizarre grudge you seem to have against the Egyptian government who, I can't emphasize this enough, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CASE WHICH INVOLVES GERMAN CITIZENS IN GERMANY. This discussion isn't worth continuing. Rock n roll dude, keep it real.

I find THIS hard to believe< ...

Egyptians Angry Over German Court Slaying

Sherbini, 33, was stabbed to death Wednesday in a courtroom as she prepared to give testimony against a German man of Russian descent whom she had sued for insult and abuse.
******SKIP******
The two were in court Wednesday for that appeal when Alex A. attacked, pulling out a knife and stabbing Sherbini 18 times. He also stabbed her husband three times and attacked another person.

According to Arab media, police officers tried to intervene to end the fight, and a number of shots were fired.

This guy was able to stab a person 18 TIMES and then attack two more people in a courtroom?

I don't know what kind of security they have in courthouses in Germany, but it sure sounds like they need A LOT of beefing up!

[edit on 7/7/2009 by Keyhole]

Originally posted by LeoLoeb
Let us deconstruct that argument:
"Deconstruct" means something. That is not what it means. Read some Derrida, homeboy. He'll drop mad science on ya.

Starters- thankfully I'm not yer "homeboy"


Main Course- of course "deconstruct means something"- and I can "deconstruct" your argument, as Derrida himself states, highlighting the contradictory nature of it

They shouldn't, nor are they.

really

They are directing their anger at specific groups within Germany who murder people because of the color of their skin.

A) This was not a group, this was a man
B) All murder is equally wrong, those who elevate certain victims on the basis of supposed "hate" aspects (which murders involve "love" by the way) demean the woman with her throat cut, simply because some bloke wished to do it

The German legal system is also pretty put out with these groups and prosecutes them zestfully.

this man will be prosecuted, hence (here we go round the mulberry bush), this "group" outrage and anger is pathetic

This is what the Egyptian community is asking for.

Every individual, whether of Egyptian origin or otherwise, receive the same treatement under the German judicial system- so they are asking for something they..........erm............already get

It is what will probably happen. I can't imagine why this should bother you, but if it does then, you know, deal with it.

Dear boy I support all murderers being processed under the law

Again, what Egypt does or does not do doesn't come into play here. These are Egyptians who emigrated to Germany. They're German citizens now. Stop holding them guilty for the sins of a country they bloody left.
[/quote

Seems to me they are the ones HOLDING onto Egyptian group identity eh, heh

Translation: If stats were available showing that German national on immigrant crime was disproportionately high and growing at an alarming rate, you would discount those, as they do not fit your thesis. Gotcha.

No I wouldn't- I am rational and accept rational figures, group mentality people and their pets, do not

It doesn't matter what you care or do not care about. The German government, a sovereign government, does care about hate crimes and needs to decide whether to prosecute this as such. They probably should.

well it matters in the sense that you and eye are discussing what WE think about such matters on an internet forum- they probably shouldn't

Wow. So because Germany is a modern liberal democracy (who prosecute hate crimes, incidentally, an inconvenient truth from your point of view)

what an odd sentence- liberal democracies are not codependent on having hate crime legislation. Germany is a modern liberal democracy which has hate crime legislation- this is neither inconvenient or co depedent- in liberal democracies we are allowed opinions and my opinion is it demeans our societies (none of that is even remotely "inconvenient"- "inconvenient" means something homeboy, and how you have used it bears no resemblance to its meaning)

Germans should be allowed to kill Egyptian immigrants who are no longer citizens of Egypt and so have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT ANYWAY at will? Just, wow.

what sort of idiot pills have you been popping- all murderers should receive german justice, whether they are murderers of people of egyptian descent or not, I mean, what in the world are you filtering through that brain of yours?

I think I have spelled this out repeatedly about as clearly as it can humanly be spelled out. Your only interest is in prosecuting a bizarre grudge you seem to have against the Egyptian government who, I can't emphasize this enough, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CASE WHICH INVOLVES GERMAN CITIZENS IN GERMANY. This discussion isn't worth continuing. Rock n roll dude, keep it real.

Yeah, pointing out the irony of Egyptians criticising Germany over oppression and minority treatment is bizzarre, yeah, rock on "tommy"

Evidently this story ( for obvious reasons, I'd say ) in general has not been getting much European coverage and in particular is being supressed in Germany -

Daily Outrage: Pregnant Egyptian woman stabbed 18 times

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/81f5c88447b3.jpg[/atsimg]
Source : San Francisco Examiner