Absolute truth

reply to post by novacs4me


Novac, you have nailed it on the head. In my view of things, if I were sitting on the 30th floor with a broken leg, for example, and there were firemen on the 15th floor and they paniced and left, I would not actually hold it against them. I hold noone responsible for my saftey and well being other than me.

On the other hand, if there were a fireman in the same room (say a big call center kind of room) and he saw he could help but then turned and walked out, I would be seriously ticked off. I might even punch the guy once I got the broken leg fixed and got off the crutches, etc. But even with all of that, I would not call what he did evil or bad. Selfish, egotistical, whatever, but not bad.

Let me flip your argument on its head. If the absolute RIGHT thing to do was to help all the people in the building(s) get out, then are all the people running like paniced monkeys down the stair way to get out of the building wrong?

BTW, thank you for this thread. I actually love these kinds of conversations because they get the brain juices going.

EDIT:

You know, after thinking about this, I think I need to clarify my position a little. It is not that I don't think there is a Right and Wrong, it's just that I don't think they are absolute. I act based on my opinion what what is right and wrong, generally driven by my own desires, such as not losing my loved ones or not wanting to let someone die or suffer. But in the end, they are MY desires and wants. Not some written edict sitting in a library somewhere or written upon the universe.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by rogerstigers]

reply to post by rogerstigers

Let me flip your argument on its head. If the absolute RIGHT thing to do was to help all the people in the building(s) get out, then are all the people running like paniced monkeys down the stair way to get out of the building wrong?

No because the basic instinct of man is to survive. Its when the man can stop in his tracks and say no to that instinct, when he becomes something else and he goes to rescue others, because its the right thing to do in my opinion. Many people stayed to help their friends in the WTC and many simply left their friends behind when they saw them trapped and they were looking in their friends eyes for help.

Its when we are able to throw our emotions to the side, when we become something, supernatural. Well that is what I think.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Myth, I can dig that point of view. Especially the idea of us being able to transcend our animal natures to become something more in the face of everything telling us to run away. In other words, the ability to answer the question of "Fight or Flight?" with "Neither"

reply to post by rogerstigers


Exactley, essentially we transcede what we are wired to do. I believe that is supernatural. After all when its you or a women trapped under a car with a flood coming. It takes a lot to over-ride that flight insticnt and save her.

It appears my first 'new topic' has died a natural death. I've read what you all have posted, and I am satisfied with your answers. My conclusion is that we CAN'T agree on any absolute truths. The assertion that 'there are no absolute truths' is in itself your OPINION. It is NOT true, and it is not my OPINION that it is not true. The proof that I am correct will become clear to you when you draw your last breath.

reply to post by novacs4me


Personally, I would try to help someone in dire need myself.. It's not something I understand.

Perhaps on a psychological level we see another person in our society as one of our own, even if we don't know that person. Seeing them as such, we rescue them, to help the rest of the tribe to continue?

But then there are people who don't help others. There's people like Bernie Madoff.. Who don't seem to care about others, that will steal, lie, and cheat and destroy everyone else for their own gain.

It is really hard for me to understand your question exactly with the way you worded it, but from what I did understand of it I will try to answer.

I heard this before in a book once, it goes:
Truth can neither be proven or disproven, Truth simply is.

It is True that there exists a World of The Absolute.

"A thing cannot exist without its opposite, except in the world of the absolute."

So of course, Absolute Truth and Absolute Truths exist... even if we currently do not live in the world of the absolute, many such Truths are evidently True in this world as well.

Yet, it does not matter or change the Truth if one person agrees or knows this, or no one agrees or knows this. It would seem almost useless for "we" to agree on anything because no matter what the agreement, no matter how large the majority, it will not change the Absolute Truth. It would do good however to teach what Absolute Truth(s) we have uncovered or remembered to be more correct and share this Knowing with others.

Maybe a couple famous quotes from Mahatma Gandhi will help.

"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it."

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth."

"Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self-sustained."

-Mahatma Gandhi

~ohh and by the way, your examples of absolute truth that *YOU* imagine that we can agree on are Absolutely Ridiculous!

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Sk8rDude7]

reply to post by Sk8rDude7


My point, which I realize I haven't made well, is that we don't seem to be able to agree on even one absolute truth, and so how are we ever going to 'band together' to overcome whatever danger we agree must be opposed? I don't understand why people post in the swine flu forum and in other forums that we 'like-minded' people should form a group and go off by ourselves to defend ourselves from the government or whoever 'we' think is going to 'get us'. I don't reject the belief that the dangers are real. I question the critical thinking ability in those who believe we can trust others 'like us' to stick by us when the going gets rough.

There is absolute truth, and that truth is the PERSON who was asked by Pontius Pilate 'What is truth?'

reply to post by novacs4me


Whoa. Did you just turn this into a Christian thread? I thought we were having a good non-religious philisophical discussion.

You are absolutely right. We cannot guarantee that we will ever be able to "band" together for any length of time without conflict and disagreement. That is a characteristic of all animals that there will be conflicts and differances of opinion. No real surprise there. You simple pick people you think you can work with and strive for the best. When conflicts arise, you handle them in the most appropriate manner for the situation.

I was just being honest in my last sentence.

Here is the order of protection in a group: "I will protect my children and (next) my spouse before my other 'significant' relatives. I will protect my clan before I will protect you. After all that is covered, I will do what I swore an oath to YOU I would do". If you are hoping that someone in your survival group will put you ahead of their own children, you are deluded. When the person on guard has to choose between your life and the lives of his or her own, well, don't expect too much.