The IRS is a privately owned company based out of Puerto Rico

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That is so f***ing funny!!!!!! 10 Years!


This is one of the most intelligent and hilarious stories I have ever read!!!!

I will take off the Foe on you now! kidding!


I remember reading something several years ago that they can't prove it and I couldn't figure out why then isn't anyone calling their bluff?

You sir, are the Man!

I am going to "Match The Monkey!" I worked with a contractor in CT and he used to perform a task or skill and would tell me this phrase! Never heard it before and now laugh every time I hear it!

Originally posted by PRS395
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

That is so f***ing funny!!!!!! 10 Years!


This is one of the most intelligent and hilarious stories I have ever read!!!!

I will take off the Foe on you now! kidding!


I remember reading something several years ago that they can't prove it and I couldn't figure out why then isn't anyone calling their bluff?

You sir, are the Man!

I am going to "Match The Monkey!" I worked with a contractor in CT and he used to perform a task or skill and would tell me this phrase! Never heard it before and now laugh every time I hear it!

The fact is no they can't prove it. It really is just another collection agency that legally has no standing as a third party interloper...if...and this is a very big if...

You don't sign the forms with your real Legal Name...

When the code tells you they operate under the Color of such and such department of the government, what color means is they have been flagged as a Naval Vessel and have standing in International Maritime Law/
Laws of the Sea.

They do in fact have a right to collect from you if you sign the contract, which is the 1040 or 1040A Form.

They trick most people into the W-4 contract, when you start working at most employers as an employee at will or a contracted employee, and you sign the W-4 form, you authorize your employer to withhold Federal Taxes out of your paycheck.

Most people know they will be getting money back if they file for a Refund so that is how most people get tricked into signing the contract.

It's against the law not to file, you are required to, it's not against the law to not sign the Forms though and execute the contract.

In essence what I do is file a non-executable contract that I have not signed so there is no enforcable contract.

On my W-4 I simply claim enough exemptions to make me exempt from any withholdings, for instance each exepmtion is worth 3,500 and your standard deduction (this year) is 5,450 as a Single or Married Filing Seperate Person.

So if you make say 40,000 a year, when you fill out your W-4 you just claim 10 exemptions, and you wouldn't have any money withheld from your paycheck in this fashion.

Because you aren't executing the contract, they can't question the exemptions, because you are filing it they can't claim you failed to file, or willfully evaded, you waited until they specifically asked you to do something unconstitutional, you simply reply by giving them what they asked for in non-executable form.

Their computer is never going to read or understand you did not sign the form, it autmoatically generates a bill that starts automically being sent to you, after a predetermined period of time they they then involve humans for follow up, eventually if you do nothing they go for a Levy...

Now they are committing in essence an illegal act, so now you have something to put on your 9-1-1 form.

They try to wear you down and trick you into executing a valid contract at this point.

Well, instead of 55,000 in back taxes we will make it 8,000.00 will you sign an agreement to pay 500.00 a month?

Basically what they want to do is find out how much cash and assetts you have through intimidation and trying to get you to agree by executing a contract to fork those over in lieu of what the full amount is they are trying to extort from you.

It's all about collecting what ever they can legally, by getting you to execute a legal binding contract pledging the money to them.

The way I do it, I am basically complying with everything on my end, but making the contract executable and telling them, I won't make any contract executable until you can prove you absolutely have the right to tax me and collect taxes from me on behalf of the Federal Government in a clear and concise law that clearly amends the laws in the Constitution legally...

They can't do that, and I simply can't in good faith execute the contract then, as they have delivered no good or service, or provided me personally with anything that would warrant me contracting with them to pay them any sum of money.

Where the Wesley Snipes of the world get in trouble is sooner or later, their Lawyers or through their own stupidity or fear end up causing them to sign an executable contract.

Once you give them an executable contract, you are screwed...

You only have to give the Devil is due, when you sign the Devil's contract...and since the IRS and Government does nothing for me that my over the counter purchase taxes at cash registers for gas, groceries, cigarrettes and liqour don't already pay for, and since I am given no ownership in what those taxes buy, I really have no obligation constitutionally except in time of war to help fund the Federal Government.

It's not my fault that the Federal Government grew itself so large and took on so much debt for acts of charity to other nations and citizens, and departments and programs that I do not use, and do nothing for me.

I have no obligation to pay for that, and I won't create an obligation by signing any form of executable contract.

reply to post by nh_ee

Well, excuse me for not being perfect like you. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not claiming to be an expert, just giving my opinion.

I am not a terrorist. I'm trying to tell people to be sensible, and not try to fight the IRS. Usually people probably don't win. Tax revolts, if that's what some are suggesting, will not work without a lot of people doing it together.

I am not one of the sheeple. I try to be informed on various issues. I read a lot of info every day on the internet, and I watch the news. I don't have easy access to legal books, or the US constitution. I don't have the desire to read the law if it is 1,000 pages long anyway.

If people are sheeple, it's because legal crap is too long-winded and confusing. The average idiot does not understand things like tax laws. Not that I'm an idiot by any means. Please do not assume that I'm stupid because I did not research it. I just wanted to put in my two cents, okay?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
...if...and this is a very big if...

You don't sign the forms with your real Legal Name...

so what happens if you did sign the forms? how do you get out of it?

Originally posted by JulieMills

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
...if...and this is a very big if...

You don't sign the forms with your real Legal Name...

so what happens if you did sign the forms? how do you get out of it?

You really can't get out of it once you sign the forms. The forms are a contract and as far as I know there is no Mickey Rorque "Angel Heart" way to beat Lucifer in a contract.

A contract is a contract and if you were duped into signing the contract you have no right of recision at all.

If you look at the IRS Publications that corespond with the form you will notice that they always address such random things to: Tax Payer

They don't address them: Citizen

They don't address them: Person

They address them: Tax Payer

Once you sign the form that is what you have legally obligated yourself to be "a Tax Payer".

The two legal definitions of a Person are: An Actor Wearing a Mask and a Straw Man

When you sign that form as a 'Tax Payer' you have just contracted to 'play' that role, and to pay a 'Tax' based on your earnings as an Actor and a 'Straw Man' a fictitious entity for the purpose of executing and carrying out contractual obligations.

Contractual Law supercedes all other Laws that is how they get away with violating the Constitution in taxing people, people in fact agree to be taxed through individual contractual relationships the IRS tricks them into signing as "Tax Payers" not citizens.

The Contract is more or less Iron Clad. You can "Re-negotiate" Contract Terms and get them to wave things like penalties and late fees while signing another Iron Clad Contract to pay lesser amount, they are always happy to do that to have a Contract they can reasonably expect to collect on versus a contract that they know they can't reasonably collect on because the money they were originally asking to 'collect' far excedes your income earning potential and on hand assetts.

The real pressure is to get you to sign a Contract (the forms) and once you do if you then fail to pay them and you have income or assetts or fame, they are going to go after you for what they call "Income Tax Evassion" but it really is "Breach of Contract" they are going after you for.

Originally posted by The_Tick
This is exactly how the Mormon church (Church of Jesus Christ & Latter day Saints) has avaited taxes all these years. I have seen all of their paper work concerning this and it is bullet proof.

I thought all churches were tax exempt...not just the mormon church?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

but this "contract" is for each individual year correct? if i signed last years forms it doesn't hold me this year?

Originally posted by JulieMills
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

but this "contract" is for each individual year correct? if i signed last years forms it doesn't hold me this year?

The Contract (Form) you sign is collectable for 7 years. If you signed your 2007 form for instance they can collect actively until 2014. However, if say in 2009 they decide you aren't going to pay what you owe in 2007 the can put that in a lein and work on collecting it until the day you die and beyond the grave.

If you didn't file 2008 (form) they have 10 years to pursue you trying to get you to submit the form. If you submit it but don't sign it they will still try to collect from you, but ulitmately can't when you explain you haven't signed the form and won't.

You can beat them on years you have submitted unsigned forms.

You can negotiate with them on yours you have submitted signed forms.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

The notion that the IRS and Federal Reserve are private corporations in the sense that non-government entities are in sole control of them is completely false. There is government regulation involved in the Fed via the Board of Governors. If anyone wants to debate me on this issue I will be happy to do so through a new thread or private message.

As for the IRS, it is part of the US Department of Treasury; hence, it is a federal government agency. The primary issue concerning the IRS is not its structure or legality; the discrepancy between the motive of its creation and its existence is the chief matter. Sure, go ahead and don't pay taxes. If you sign the W-4, you are entering into a contract, and are thus required by law to abide by the terms. ProtoplasmicTraveler previously elucidated this point by pointing out that a citizen is not legally bound by this contract if he/she does not enter it. The tax system is obviously "for-profit" because that is the manner in which the government funds itself! But could you imagine if everyone single current tax-payer realizes this and refuses to pay? The ramifications of such a mind-set would be astronomical. The government (IRS) accumulates approximately 2.4 trillion dollars per year in revenue (taxes). If our fiscal policy does not change, i.e. we continue to spend massively, then the citizens themselves would send the economy down the toilet. Let me provide some definitions and a few facts: A deficit exists when the government spends more than what it takes in through taxes per annum. A surplus exists when the it generates more revenue (taxes) than it spends. The debt is the accumulation of deficits. Our current debt is at 11.5 trillion, increasing by approximately $50,000 per second. The Bush administration in its final fiscal year had a deficit of 455 billion dollars (a record). Obama's deficit for the next fiscal year (starts in September) is projected to be approximately 1.7 trillion dollars. The more debt we accumulate, the more interest is owed. So this number is constantly increasing at a faster rate. The point is this: the government must curb its spending. Before we revolt against taxation, this issue must first be addressed. And for those of you who are fall into the illusion that you are somehow being excluded from this 11.5 trillion dollar financial obligation of ours ($37,000) because you don't currently pay taxes, I suggest you take an economics class. You will owe it eventually. If not you directly, then it will be your children, or your grandchildren.

People must become financially literate in this country. An economics class should be a mandatory class senior year of high school. People just do not understand personal finance, or how our economy works. Having just graduated high school a month ago, I can testify to that. This generation is so clueless, and it saddens me that this is the future.

Originally posted by TornMind
Hooray, A real fourth fraud day post. C'mon US American's we might as well have British Passports....After all the US is a corp. of the East Indies Co.

Onto the IRS one of the biggest growing 'markets' in the States is the cash market........ Just cash for services; with no receipts.

Well said Australia is going the same way.

We have state governments changing laws with no public state referendums which is against the law and our own constitution . I know people who are ready to changeling them in court .

interesting times...

[edit on 11/7/2009 by ocker]

reply to post by 1 4M 7H3 1

I have to agree with you! Like I said earlier in the thread, the government does not concern itself with "technicalities", meaning they do not care if it was legal to form the IRS and also exist, like you said. It is a long-standing, firmly entrenched entity of the US government to collect taxes from the labor of its people, to pay for its budget.

I actually took an economics class in high school, plus I have common sense when it comes to money. The US dollar becomes more and more worthless all the time because of all these bailouts and stimulus "package(s)". All the ways the government is blowing our money like drunken sailors. It's not just Obama doing it either-Bush also spent money this way.

If this country will ever have a chance of getting out of debt, the government needs to stop spending so much, and people have to pay their income taxes! That need for fiscal responsibility and frugality also should include state, and even local governments. This reckless spending appears to be a trend to me. The federal government and many states are going broke. It's because they are all spending way too much money.

If you spend more than you take in, you are in debt. Is it realistic to expect the government to restrain itself from spending us into oblivion? I don't think so. We will all be owned by China soon. Maybe you'll get to keep living in your house though, if you own it outright. It's called eminent domain, which allegedly, Hillary Clinton gave away to the Chinese on one of her last visits there.

Yes, China will own America, and everything in it. Our homes, businesses, national parks, everything. And we'll probably be killed or made into their slaves, too.

reply to post by muffingirl


Glad to hear it! haha-learn mandarin and start buying some Yuan! I remember my history teacher (graduated number 2 from Georgetown) in Sophomore year (late '06, early '07) warn us that the Chinese are our biggest threat and may take us over in 25 years. We all thought he was crazy...now-not so much.

reply to post by 1 4M 7H3 1

Will we actually have our government controlled by China, or just our money, property, etc.? I've heard that China and other countries are talking about dumping the US dollar as the reserve currency, and having the yuan be it instead. Do you think that will really happen, though?

The more bailouts and such that there are, the more money the US needs to borrow from China, and they're probably getting tired of lending it to us. The yuan is the currency in China, right? If the yuan is worth more compared to the US dollar, it would make sense to dump it.

Also, I don't remember where I heard this online (rense? drudgereport?), but China is also threatening to immediately stop buying US debt is we and Israel go to war with Iran. With Israel probably starting it, of course, and we being their allies, will also be punished by Israel's other enemies, too.

Russia also threatened something nasty too, but I don't remember what. I guess this is off the subject of the IRS, though, isn't it?

reply to post by Frankidealist35

Outsource the Federal Reserve?
The federal reserve is not for us to outsource..
we don't own it
we don't control it

it owns US
it controls US

it's too bad this thread died. Let us revive it?

#ItHasRisen

This is a great topic! Let's get things rolling again

a reply to: FamCore

we can't let this thread die - too important of a subject...

it doesn't hurt to comply some....

I complied for twenty years......i'm twenty years free of them now....kinda went incognito and bulldozer work has a pay method of many possibilities

master the possibilities

If you want a good read on this go look for whats called the Grace report. It is an 800+ page report done at the request of Regan who wanted to know wtf and where all the tax money was going. Its definitely an eye opener even the first 16 pages. I dont know how every American hasnt stopped paying or read it. Let me say Reagan definitely knew something was askew

Here is 400+ pages its the Grace Commission Report

www.gao.gov... › assetsPDF
Web results
Analysis of the Grace Commission's Major Proposals for Cost Control - GAO