The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

I don't believe everything I read. Where I come from in Britain it's so peaceful. Sometimes I actually wish for a bit of chaos to make my life a little more interesting. I know, it's wrong, but I can't help how I feel.

I know there are really bad areas of the country, but it's the same wherever you go. Don't start thinking Britain is full of violent criminals that would mug or kill you every chance they get. Because it's not.

Lets not start up a guns debate. They may work in the US, but not here. If everyone was armed I could only see violence, murders, robberies and fear escalate.

It was funny to watch initial reactions to the OP, what with the whining and the finger pointing. When calmed down enough to actually assess the situation, we find it sounds like the UK has escalation in violence for much the same reasons as we do (overpopulation, decay of morals, gangs etc.)

As a US citizen upon hearing this news, I don't find myself thinking "nyah nyah". That would just be weird. That's what it seems like a lot of people resort to when it comes to us, though. "Oh yeah? Well... well... you guys are fat and shoot each other!". We've got problems. We're dying. How hilarious.

What I feel is concern for the situation and wishing there was a way I could help, and looking forward to reading mature discussion in that direction. I think we should all be concerned when our fellow humans suffer. Radical idea, eh?

Americans will never understand the british culture or any that is not american, there is a world out there you know, americans like to shoot things up with great big weapons, the english like a beer and a fight, not everyone, but some of us, mostly the young, a punch up is just a punch up, till some idiot american starts pulling a gun out

on a lighter note the best way to describe the rowdy english attitude to fighting is this vid





www.youtube.com...

The vast, vast bulk of American shootings is within small areas of larger American cities. We have neighborhoods in our larger cities where certain elements will kill for $40, or if someone looks sideways at another punk.

This group has little education, little money, little ambition, little desire to change their circumstances, and elect to sell drugs and kill each other over the least of slights.

Europeans and Asians have a wrong view of the US because of this ethnic, cultural few who prey primarily on each other. This is what gets sensationalized, this is what skewers our statistics, and this is an almost self-contained, running sore.

I don't go into these areas, I don't hang around drug areas, I don't belong to one of these silly gangs, and I don't go looking for trouble.

So far, I've never been required to shoot anyone here in the States.

Let every country tend to their own mittens, and criticize their own. Not others for their own determinations.

reply to post by the secret web


I couldnt agree more old bean.

England is if you play fair a pretty good place to live. Thats why we have trouble with immigration because everyone wants in.

Must be because we dont have to many gun wielding idiots in our country.

reply to post by dooper


And i dont beleive that. America has been well documented this side of the pond and its plain to see you guys have a real problem. I think your delusional.

Originally posted by kode
Must be because we dont have to many gun wielding idiots in our country.

OK!

Hold the phone!

Hold the phone...


Gun "wielding Idiots" have not caused the issues now have THEY?


[edit on 4-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by pavil
Wow, I would have thought for sure the US had the UK beat by a mile in regards to violent crimes. I would have to see what the poll considers a violent crime. Must be all those drunk football fans. Just kidding, the UK's fans aren't any worse than other countries.

Nah I live in britian, I would say it mostly comes from knife crime, and RANDOM groups beating up random people walking by for no reason at all, also gang wars, where they beat up and stab each other.

And probably most of all thugs who rob you at knife point or group upper hand.

It's not just drunken crime, there is a lot of this other crime, I've seen some it myself.



[edit on 4-7-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Might help y'all then if they go ahead and ban all the knives, and gathering in groups as well as the firearms.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well thay have on this thread.

I just cant get over how a bunch of power crazed individuals go on about there right to own life taking weapons, when there is no need to own them at all, in the main.

The Uk definatly aint all pink pajamas lol there are some right proper dirt holes, it has never really been about guns in this country, like someone else said a good punch or a bat will do the trick, although guns are getting more frequently used over here. I live right next to Birmingham and over the last 10 years it has got worse and worse, some areas if you are on your own u will be seen as an easy target, and i have been the "near" victim of a few street robberies myself, thankfully never with any wepons so i have sorted it out.
I dont think these figures are all about homicides, they include all crime data eg, drugs (which in the UK atm are out of control)
, antisocial behaviour, fighting etc
The UK is definatly goin down the pan and very quick.

reply to post by nenothtu


We are not a bunch of knife weilding nutters.

This newspaper, if you can call it that, is just playing on peoples fear because we are having a mini heatwave and peoples tempers are more easily frayed.

Well actually the poll was incredibly wrong

The rank amateurishness which characterises the modern Conservative Party has been exposed with the embarrassing claim by Tory Home Affairs frontbencher Chris Grayling that Britain has a higher violent crime rate than South Africa and America.

In reality, both South Africa and America have dramatically higher rates of violent crime than Britain. The Tories are simply lying, and have shown the intellectual shallowness of the people who want to make up this country’s next government.

To make matters worse, evidence from the British police shows that immigrants to Britain are responsible for a majority of the reported murders and related violent crime in Britain - making a mockery of the Tory allegations that British people are violent.

The ridiculous claim was contained in a special ‘report’ issued by the Conservative Party yesterday which was parroted by the controlled media as accurate - when, in fact, it was the most weak, pathetic and obviously false piece of ‘research’ seen since the Labour Party’s lies on Iraq’s ‘WMDs.’

According to the amateurish Tory report, Britain has a worse rate for “all types of violence than the US and even South Africa.”

The basis of this claim was in the definition of ‘violent crime’ as reported by the European Union’s central statistical office, Eurostat in Belgium.

Without bothering to check what makes up the definition of a ‘violent crime’ in South Africa, Britain or America, the Tory liars rushed into print the raw statistics.

In South Africa, a violent crime is defined - and records kept - as a contact crime, involving “physical contact between the victims and perpetrators and such contact is usually of a violent nature.”

What are the actual statistics which the shockingly poor Tory ‘research’ missed? A comparison of murder statistics alone shows the miscalculations of Mr Grayling and his rank amateurs.

According to the official South African Police Services (SAPS) statistics, as reported on their website, there were 18,487 murders in South Africa in 2007. According to the recorded crime statistics issued by the Home Office, there were 784 murders in Britain in 2007.

The total number of murders in South Africa from 2001 to 2007 was just under 120,000, according to the SAPS statistics. This is the equivalent to a larger number of people being murdered than the entire population of Salisbury in Wiltshire - yet the laughable Tories actually expect people to believe that Britain has a higher violent crime rate than South Africa.

Put another way: Some 60,000 British civilians were killed during the five year-long Blitz of World War II. This is half the number of people who have been murdered in South Africa in six years.

According to a report issued by the Global Burden of Armed Violence, the homicide rate per 100,000 population for South Africa is 38.6 compared to Britain’s 2.03.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation’s annual crime statistics reported that there were 16,929 murders in the United States of America in 2007. The total number of murders from 2001 to 2007 in America numbered 98,703. This figure is less than South Africa even though America has a population at least six times larger.

The homicide rate per 100,000 of the population for America is 5.8, still more than twice the rate for Britain - once again completely contradicting the fake Tory ‘report.’

Even in non-murder statistics, South African and American violent crime statistics are far larger than in Britain, as evidenced by the official reports

A survey for the period 1998-2000 compiled by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime ranked South Africa second for assault and murder (by all means) per capita and first for rapes per capita.

Originally posted by Majestic23

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Next_Heap_With
Unless every-single crime was/is being committed with guns i won't bite your pro-gun bait...

you have to consider a lot of other factors like drugs, xenophobia, etc...

blaming it all on gun control is kind of ludicrous..

p.s - just because a bad gun control system doesn't work that does NOT mean GUN CONTROL will never work... we just need a better system..

Are you saying that British householders with guns would NOT defend themselves From miscreants from whatever source, be it drugs or whatever?
Or are you saying that a gun is ineffective against a drug-crazed or religion crazed Knife wielder?

If the former, then you're right, Brits don't need guns. It would just get them hurt with their own weapon.

If the latter, I'd beg to differ, as a firearm has significantly more range than a knife, to hold them at bay with.

I've met very few criminals that actually WANTED to be shot. Most just slink away.

Next clearly didnt even imply anything like what you are suggesting.

Take a chill out day Neno, a nice massage or herbal tea bath or something. We all know guns can kill criminals and most anything you point them at. We are talking about not having a load of guns everywhere, not how many criminals scum or hard up dudes that made the mistake of approaching your patch.

Yessir, my point being that blaming violent crime on a LACK of gun control is just as ludicrous as blaming violent crime on gun control.

Clearly, the blame for violent crime should be laid at the feet of violent criminals, no?

I'm afraid I fail to understand why the means to their objectives is of such import that things need to be banned, and if things DO need to be banned, should we not ban ALL things that may be used in a violent manner?

Other than my big mouth, I mean.

Personally, I'd rather ban violent people, and leave their things alone, but that WOULD be a bit difficult to enforce, now wouldn't it?

Especially in the climate of today's world.

South Africa also has a bad record for car hijackings when compared to industrialised countries especially when the lower rate of car ownership is taken into consideration. One South African insurance company, Hollard Insurance, no longer insures Volkswagen Citi Golfs as they are one of the most frequently hijacked vehicles in South Africa.

The BMW car manufacturer now offers its own insurance to purchasers of its product in South Africa because insurance rates are simply too high as a result of the large number of carjackings.

* Most murders in London in 2007 were committed by foreigners, according to Scotland Yard figures released in November of that year.

Of 47 killings between April and September 2007, where the nationality of the accused was known, 26 of the suspects - 55 percent - were not Britons. At least 23 of the victims were foreign, including Somali, Brazilian, Irish and Vietnamese citizens. The accused in the London sample hail from all corners of the world: Peru, China, Albania, Romania, Lithuania, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

* An interesting fact from published analyses of American crime statistics emerges when the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s “Uniform Crime Report” is cross-referenced with the published crime figures for European nations - and divided according to the racial statistics provided by the FBI.

The FBI classifies Hispanics, Arabs and others as ‘Caucasians’ and therefore the ‘white’ crime rates in America are artificially inflated. Even with that distortion (which must be significant), a comparison of murder and robbery figures expressed per 100,000 population for each country - and then America broken down into the FBI’s classification of ‘white’ and ‘black’ reads as follows:

Murder per 100,000 population: Britain 7.4, France 4.6, Germany 4.2, Italy 6.0, USA 9.3, American whites 5.1, American blacks 43.4.

Robbery per 100,000 population: Britain 62.6, France 90.4, Germany 47.4, Italy 68.6, USA 263.0, American whites 126, American blacks 1,343. (Sources: FBI Uniform Crime Reports for U.S. data; The Economist for European data.)

As is clear from the separate calculations for American blacks and whites (done by the FBI), whites in the USA commit fewer murders per capita than do white Britons. The higher robbery rates for ‘whites’ in the America data is attributable to the fact that the FBI includes a large number of non-Europeans, including millions of Mexicans, into its ‘white’ category.

The exceedingly high criminality rate amongst American blacks has led to huge numbers of this racial group being disenfranchised in many states due to laws which prevent convicted felons from voting. According to an Associated Press report of 23 October 1998, 1.4 million black males were debarred from voting in American elections on these grounds. The report went on to point out that in total, 13 percent of black American men could not vote in the 1998 elections.

The survey showed that in the states of Florida and Alabama, the degree of disenfranchisement was at its highest: 33 percent of all black males in those states were legally barred from voting. When all non-white groups in America (blacks, Hispanics and others) are calculated in, then the figure of disenfranchised non-whites for the entire USA in the year 2005 was set at an astonishing 3.1 million individuals - around 10 percent of the entire non-white voting population.

www.saps.gov.za...

www.fbi.gov...

www.homeoffice.gov.uk...

bnp.org.uk...

Originally posted by kode
reply to post by nenothtu

 

We are not a bunch of knife weilding nutters.

YET we As "Americans" are viewed as a bunch of "Fanatics" when we pull out old "Trusty" that was handed down to us from our grandfathers when somebody comes into our homes uninvited!

Originally posted by THELONIO
Americans will never understand the british culture or any that is not american, there is a world out there you know, americans like to shoot things up with great big weapons, the english like a beer and a fight, not everyone, but some of us, mostly the young, a punch up is just a punch up, till some idiot american starts pulling a gun out

Based on the tenor of your post, I submit to you that you may not understand Americans any better than you think they understand the British.

There might even be a couple of us that Aren't "idiots".

I realize that I don't qualify for that distinction in your worldview, though.

Originally posted by System
I don't believe everything I read. Where I come from in Britain it's so peaceful. Sometimes I actually wish for a bit of chaos to make my life a little more interesting. I know, it's wrong, but I can't help how I feel.

I know there are really bad areas of the country, but it's the same wherever you go. Don't start thinking Britain is full of violent criminals that would mug or kill you every chance they get. Because it's not.

Lets not start up a guns debate. They may work in the US, but not here. If everyone was armed I could only see violence, murders, robberies and fear escalate.

Come down south london for a bit of violence and chaos

There are people who would mug you and attack you any chance they get either for entertainment or for your mobile phone, but your right it's not all over britain, it highly depends on the area. Walk a mile in london and the crime rate could be totally different from a mile back. Basically you have to be street wise and know "where" to go and "when" to go to be safe in life.

[edit on 4-7-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by kode
reply to post by the secret web

 

I couldnt agree more old bean.

England is if you play fair a pretty good place to live. Thats why we have trouble with immigration because everyone wants in.

Must be because we dont have to many gun wielding idiots in our country.

I could say the same of the US. Well, except the part about not having too many "gun wielding idiots", as you so quaintly categorize Americans.

Since we have an immigration problem as well, with people clamoring to get in by any means possible, I doubt that gun ownership, or lack thereof, enters into the equation.

reply to post by THELONIO


LOL that's a good example of how some chavs like to fight, sometimes picking on random people.

I remember that video, so funny.

Originally posted by dooper
The vast, vast bulk of American shootings is within small areas of larger American cities. We have neighborhoods in our larger cities where certain elements will kill for $40, or if someone looks sideways at another punk.

UK and USA are more alike than people like to admit, there's a lot of ignorance aorund, and each side like to pick on each other. I see comment especially on youtube, with uk and americans cussing each other, and it just appears silly.

But the fact is the general rules is the same, a lot of areas are peaceful, and most violent crimes takes place in the same old places, and yes a lot starts just by looking at someone the wrong way haha.

Anyway I think the main crime I see around her is a lot of people stealing peds and bikes haha, I mean I've seen 11 year old kids steal them!


[edit on 4-7-2009 by _Phoenix_]