Canada Sees Boom in Private Health Care Business

I thought this was a rather interesting article given our current state of affairs in the U.S.

Is this what we have to look forward to? I have always heard from some of my Canadian friends in Hallifax that long waits and a shortage of doctors has been causing problems.

Private for-profit clinics are a booming business in Canada -- a country often touted as a successful example of a universal health system. Facing long waits and substandard care, private clinics are proving that Canadians are willing to pay for treatment.

Private for-profit clinics are permitted in some provinces and not allowed in others. Under the Canada Health Act, privately run facilities cannot charge citizens for services covered by government insurance. But a 2005 Supreme Court ruling in Quebec opened the door for patients facing unreasonable wait times to pay-out-of-pocket for private treatment.

“I think there is a fundamental shift in different parts of the country that's beginning to happen. I think people are beginning to realize that they should have a choice,” says Luc Boulay, a partner at St. Joseph MRI, a private clinic in Quebec that charges around $700 for most scans.

“One can understand that this is evolving and a mix of private and public seems to be favorable in some context. On the other hand, we need to be really careful that we're not treating health care the way we treat a value meal at McDonalds,” Dr. Michael Orsini from the University of Ottawa told FOX News.

www.foxnews.com...

Originally posted by jibeho

Private for-profit clinics are permitted in some provinces and not allowed in others. Under the Canada Health Act, privately run facilities cannot charge citizens for services covered by government insurance. But a 2005 Supreme Court ruling in Quebec opened the door for patients facing unreasonable wait times to pay-out-of-pocket for private treatment.

Just wanted to say that im astounded by the sentence i bolded. In Portugal we have a National Health Service, but no private for-profit clinic, given that they follow the general health rules, is prevented from doing anything. They are free to make business as they want.

Dont let the Canada "type" of government provided health care judge ALL government health care systems.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Picao84]

reply to post by Picao84


I brought up this issue because the Canadian system has been touted as a model for a similar system in this country. The advocates for the Canadian system believe that the private clinics are taking away doctors from the public system. These doctors should be free to choose who they work for in the current Canadian system.

Fox news is has the credibility of a grocery store rag.

First off, to show what little they know, what district are they referring to? Because Canada doesn't have "national" healthcare. it goes by province. So what province are they talking about?

They are not, because it is fox spreading fear mongering as usual.

Guess what, the provinces are all different, some are better then others. I have talked to people all over the world, and no one would take our health care system for anything.


In fact a friend in Norway says things are going downhill since now for profit practise has been allowed, and the elite can get in and sneak the best care since they can afford it. Sound familiar?


We shouldnt' have to run to Canada and Mexico to get prescriptions. Or go to India to get surgery.

I have waited 4 months for surgery, because of my overbooked dr. I have waited weeks to see my pcp. I have waited 7 hours in er.

I don't want to hear about wait times, because it is not better here, and we pay a fortune for it.

since Canada has gone to their system, their lifespans have increased. Their seniors lifespans are steadily increasing. There is a lower infant mortality rate and mother natal mortality rate. Doctors report to be 30% happier then US doctors. And Canada had the same rates as us before changing their systems.


The US now ranks 37th in health care, and we pay more per person then anyone else. 1 out of 4 doctors wich they never became a doctor, one in four pcp wish they chose a specialty because the hours are grueling and the insurance companies want them to see a patient every 15 minutes! the average pcp works 70 hours a week, and only gets paid 125k a year after wracking up 125-150 in student loans. Soon there is going to be a pcp crisis for this reason.
The number one reason people become doctors? Patient relationships. More then comradship and esteem. So when we have the health insurance companies making them run to a new patient every 15 minutes, how happy do you think your doctor is?


Fox news touts this all the time, trying to convince us that there are long wait times. There are long wait times in the US. And becasue of malpractise suits, there are now pregnant women who have to drive 4 counties over to find a gyn. Because drs. can't afford the student loans and insurance.

I have ten bucks that fox is sponsored by insurance companies. and those companies are behind the camera going: tell them they have long wait times.....

reply to post by nixie_nox

Fox news is has the credibility of a grocery store rag.

You know that is flat out BS.

What it comes down too is people want choice. If that means they have to pay more for it then that is what they are going to do.

Wait times are not a myth in any of the countries with a single payer system. The truth of the matter is you an can find people that support any kind of health care system.

The problem is that going to any kind of government run or sponsored health care system isn't going to fix the problems, they will just be more pronounced. No matter what anybody wants to make people believe the government is not immune to market forces. They can spin and manipulate the numbers all they want, but it is nothing but a lie.

People want choice in their health care. People want to make lots of money and the freedom to do just about anything they want within reason. That includes doctors. People don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to school just to help people, that is partly the reason why they become doctors and the other reason is to make money.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

Wel my husband is a pediatrician who runs his own office and through his contract with the NB Medical Association, he's also required to work at the hospital for x number of hours per month as well.

People enjoy saying that we give substandard care and there are long wait times for specialists and other things. However, the care we provide is far better than people would like to think.

With my son's medical condition, his healthcare costs would be astronomical if I didn't live a country which the government had this type of plan. Estimated US cost for his medications and treatments would be around 50 to 60 thousand a year.

Now we aren't poor, we both make a decent living and have provided generously for our children, and we are happy for that. But if it wasn't for our healthcare system, we'd be a very deep hole.

I mean just look at minor surgeries or broken bones for an example. In Canada, having these things treated does not cost you a cent, and there are virtually no wait times when you have a serious injury or condition which requires immediate treatment.

I don't know about you folks, but the day I have to start PAYING for healthcare out of my pocket instead of in my taxes, I will be moving to New Zealand or France.

~Keeper

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Really? I hope that was sarcastic? If anybody here really thinks that Fox News is in any way credible, or more so than any other MSM outlet, than I suggest watching about 4 hours of it, with CNN on to the other channel.

You'll find them quite the same, the only difference is CNN doesn't have as many achors who foam from the mouth, or have to write on white boards to get their point accross.

Or say stupid things like "Michael Jackson Will Only Die Once".

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I mean just look at minor surgeries or broken bones for an example. In Canada, having these things treated does not cost you a cent, and there are virtually no wait times when you have a serious injury or condition which requires immediate treatment.

This is true. I had chest pains at work last month and was admitted immediately. No heart attack. It took less than 2 weeks for a stress test. The ticker is fine.

As to the little things, I haven't spent more than an hour in a walk in clinic. Those doctors are on the provincial payroll. No cost to me.

reply to post by nixie_nox


You didn't read the article. I didn't paste the whole article. The article explains the how the system works etc etc. Please read before you criticize.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
What it comes down too is people want choice. If that means they have to pay more for it then that is what they are going to do.
[edit on 1-7-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

Excuse me, but you have a source for that? Specifically for health.
And a national healthcare system doesnt mean people dont have chance.. A National Healthcare System is compatible with a market driven-one.. Hell, you do have more chance with both dont you?

And im sick of the Public Choice Theory (Im taking Mst on Political Science so i have to know it).. It has some good points.. But it is too fundamentalist for my taste..

reply to post by nixie_nox


I'll save you the trouble. Beware that because this came from Fox News that it must not be true BTW this same info was in my original post.

Health care delivery in Canada falls largely under provincial jurisdiction, complicating matters. Private for-profit clinics are permitted in some provinces and not allowed in others. Under the Canada Health Act, privately run facilities cannot charge citizens for services covered by government insurance. But a 2005 Supreme Court ruling in Quebec opened the door for patients facing unreasonable wait times to pay-out-of-pocket for private treatment.

www.foxnews.com...

[edit on 1-7-2009 by jibeho]

reply to post by jibeho


I don't know how having this under provincial jurisdiction "complicates matters". That's just spin. It works fine. As to Quebec, they attempt to be less like the rest of the country. Thus it really doesn't apply.

reply to post by intrepid


Yup, Quebec is a country all it's own really. The federal government let's them do as they please so long as the numbers are positive and they actually make out better than some of the other more "fortunate" provinces.

In healthcare, it's provincially run, which doesn't complicate things at all really. I live in NB, my son has a condition which required treatment at the IWK in Halifax. I didn't have to jump through a bunch of hoops or anything, I just showed up.

Easy as pie.

~Keeper

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by jibeho

 

I don't know how having this under provincial jurisdiction "complicates matters". That's just spin. It works fine. As to Quebec, they attempt to be less like the rest of the country. Thus it really doesn't apply.

Just out of curiosity, if it works so well, why did the Supreme Court open the door to private care back in 2005 for patients subject to unreasonable wait times?

I'm not trying to criticize, I just want to understand your viewpoint. I have friends in Hallifax and they are not always pleased with the program. My friend had to wait for 2 1/2 hours in clinic with a 3 inch gash in his head due to a head injury. Lucky for him, there was no concussion.

reply to post by jibeho


That ruling would have applied only in Quebec, and again it's because Quebec, more than the other provinces, receives "special" treatment and is left to it's own vices mostly.

Quebec did have a problem with provincial payroll doctors because they weren't making as much as their BC counterparts, so they came up with an alternative system in order to have more choice.

I can certainly see that being a good thing, it's fine if people want to pay to get immediate care, but in my opinion, the waits have never been that bad.

~Keeper

Originally posted by jibeho
Just out of curiosity, if it works so well, why did the Supreme Court open the door to private care back in 2005 for patients subject to unreasonable wait times?

My guess would be for large cities where immigrants flood emergency rooms for basic problems they could fix themselves.

I'm not trying to criticize, I just want to understand your viewpoint. I have friends in Hallifax and they are not always pleased with the program. My friend had to wait for 2 1/2 hours in clinic with a 3 inch gash in his head due to a head injury. Lucky for him, there was no concussion.

Halifax is my home town. I haven't lived there for 12 years though. I had no problem then. Things may have changed. I don't know.

reply to post by Picao84


If I need to quote a source for people wanting choice, then something is wrong. It doesn't matter if it is for health care or what you want to eat for dinner people want the right to choose.

The problem with the health care debate is that it has become politicized, and as Intrepid and I had a brief conversation about yesterday people lose all rationality when it comes to politics.

The problem with the health care proposal in America is that the Dem's are lying they want to set up a public choice system that is going to put the private sectors out of business.

Don't need a source for that one either, it should be fundamental knowledge, seeing how people on that side want a single payer system. For them to say, "that isn't what we want" is a flat out lie.

People want choice, maybe a small minority doesn't want choice, but the right to choose should not even be a subject up for debate.

edit - grammar

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

reply to post by jibeho


When we thought my mother was having a stroke we had to wait 7 hours. If it has been a stroke, she would of been dead.

when I had a severe case of lymes disease and was dehydrated, the er was packed and I was lying on a bed, vommitting in the hall, for 3 hours before a doctor could see me. And this was a Johns Hopkins hospital.

Telehealth Ontario is an excellent tool that more people should use. 24/7 access to a nurse.

# What information can a Telehealth Registered Nurse provide?

Telehealth’s Registered Nurses will provide you with confidential health advice, or general health information, as well as advise you on whether your condition would best be dealt with at home, at a clinic or family doctor, through a community service, or at a hospital emergency room.

That would free up areas for those that need it. The tools are in place, it's a matter of using them.