Britain has 85 sharia courts: The astonishing spread of the Islamic justice behind closed doors

reply to post by teapot

When the men returned from WW11, the government of the day encouraged women, who had been conscripted to fill the job vacancies in industry, agriculture and civil services, to vacate their jobs and return to hearth and home so that the returning hero's could take their jobs back.

Actually these sociological changes was the result of a country fighting for its life, not feminism. Those returning men to the home front made immense sacrifices and were also hazardous to the establishment. Their jobs had to be returned to them to keep them off the streets Ironically, it was WWII that changed the prospect of working class men and women by they estblishment, hence the NHS.

This trend continued throughout the fifties. Television ownership was becoming more widespread and the marketing people exploited the fantasy of the perfect family, dad at work, mum at home 2.4 children doing their homework.

Actually in the fifties the UK was a country in serious debt having begun to service the Lend Lease debt and various loans from the US and loss of empire. Further to this there was the devaluation of the currency to depress consumption by the Attlee government in the face of the Marshall aid being deployed in continental Europe. The early to mid 1950s was a period of austerity, probably worse than the war years. (Ref: Contemporary European History (2000), 9:1:137-155 Cambridge University Press). A consumer society did not exist in the UK until well into the sixties.

This marketing lead to an increase in demand for consumer goods, and with only the men working,production could not keep up with demand. the government instituted the 'twilight' or 'housewives' shift, ie 4 or 5pm to 9 or 10, and many women went to work on the production lines to make their 'pin money'.

This was a result of a cash poor economy desperate to produce goods for the export market. Women's contribution to the work force was a transition to the general invitation to Common Wealth workers to come over to the motherland.

In fact this ideal that so many claim and aspire to as 'traditional family values', is just that, a fantasy.

Traditional family values does not go against the precepts of feminism but is founded upon Christian values. While it could be argued that the formal family unit with all the roles defined within certain parameters is a Victorian ideal. The unit serves the interest of women as much as it does their children and as the men folk. In fact this formal family type structure only existed in the middle and upper classes in the Victorian era. Working class family units did exist but women and children worked and were exploited.

Then in the 1960's, easy access to the birth control pill as well as improvements to access to higher education for women, contributed in no small way to increased choice for women.

The pill only gave women the advantage of enjoying their sexuality without the fear of being made pregnant. It also moved the responsibility of having become pregnant wholly onto their shoulders. Disastrously, it has also introduced women's sexuality into the public arena to the extent that not conforming to extroverted sexuality has become strange. This extroverted sexuality has been exploited by fashion, advertisement, media and social expectations. Women's bodies have become public property.

Men were having their cake and eating it; the 'shotgun' wedding largely became a thing of the past, with the result that men could easily abdicate filial responsibility.

Many men abdicate filial responsibility now for two main reasons; the ubiquity of casual relationships with the onus of birth control in the hands of women and because the choice of terminating a fetus has been left to the potential mother alone.

In the past, social controls and reputation would have condemned a promiscuous man. What went on the bedroom was kept secret and awkward.

Only a few available and desirable men can have their cake and eat it. Shot gun weddings are extremely rare and probably even rarer than entrapment by a deliberate pregnancy.

It is not impossible for any couple to adopt the 'traditional' family strata. They just need that bigger house, those extra holidays; they need to 'live the dream' sold to them by the corpy marketeers.

This is a problem faced by aspirational middle class family while working class families maintain two very poor incomes to pay for extortionate utility bills, taxes, insurance and it will get worse as the green fascists dig their heels in. It is never technology used to overcome pollution but always more taxes and restrictions.

In your opinion, who is exploiting feminism?

I see feminism as the acknowledgement of women's biological and social imperatives. Feminism is about allowing women the true choice of being a fighter pilot or a house wife. Neither should require women to sacrifice an aspect of themselves. A woman given the best education in the world should be allowed to stay at home and raise great kids or inversely if the choice is to advance through a top-notch career, there should be high quality child care on offer. This is feminism and it is practised in Denmark and Sweden.

Exploitation of women is by commercial interests that want to access their income and it is also by industry's desire to expand the labour market to depress wages. The irony is that as more women entered the labour market there was a corresponding drop in average take home pay and increase in the gap between worker's wages and income of the top 30%.

(Ref:
Who cares for the children? Denmark's unique public child-care model.
by Valerie Polakow)

www.questia.com...;jsessionid=KpJN56C7hHbnQr47mpYdpR84tJkL6p0y MF36HC06cNNgnGRGhvpG!1596248468!1057080025?docId=5000443594

(Ref: The Politics of Ideals of Care: Danish and Flemish Child Care Policy Compared by Monique Kremer)

sp.oxfordjournals.org...

More women working than ever before, says ILO (International Labour Organisation)

Geneva: More women are working than ever before, but they are also more likely than men to get low-productivity, low-paid and vulnerable jobs, with no social protection, basic rights nor voice at work according to a new report by the International Labour Office (ILO) issued for International Women’s Day.

Global employment trends for women – March 2008 released on the occasion of International Women’s Day, says that the number of employed women grew by almost 200 million over the last decade, to reach 1.2 billion in 2007 compared to 1.8 billion men.

southasia.oneworld.net...

[edit on 013131p://pm3124 by masonwatcher]

[edit on 013131p://pm3130 by masonwatcher]

In pre-industrial societies, the family business was normally conducted in the home, whether the family business was farming or some type of cottage trade. Both the mother and the father raised and educated the children, as well as both parents working to support the family. This was the normal structure of families in Europe and the U.S.. Communities often set up schools which the children attended to learn reading, writing, and arithmetic, but a child's main education came from their parents. Women were dependent upon their men for survival, prostitution being one of the few ways a woman could survive on her own.

Pre-Christian European societies were much less hierarchical than after the invasion by Christianity. Sex wasn't considered to be a sin against God, and there is evidence that the exchange of partners was acceptable.

Now days both a woman and a man should be able to have careers and have the time to raise their children. With current levels of productivity, the twenty hours work week should be the norm. Considering that a man working approximately 40 hours a week could support his family forty years ago, being half as productive as today's workers, with both the man and the woman working today, they would only need to work ten hours each to be as productive as one person in a family working forty years ago.

Then, both parents could raise and educate their children as nature intended. With current technology trends and the internet, we may see a revision of the cottage industry, which I think would be a very good thing for humanity.

This type of future depends upon the recognition of women as equals.

reply to post by masonwatcher


And don't forget the birth of rock an roll and the advent or invention of the 'teenager'.

New markets to exploit!

It's all just wage slavery and utter subjugation of the masses.

However, the rights of the female in western society have, for whatever reason and by whomever, been fought for and won.

We have not been 'allowed' to have equality! What kind of patronising paternalistic tripe is that?

If the west becomes more and more 'islamisised', through the back door of silent invasion and use of sharia to deal with 'domestic' issues, all such rights will be eroded until they no longer exist and the west, male and female, will be the poorer for it.

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

And don't forget the birth of rock an roll and the advent or invention of the 'teenager'.

New markets to exploit!

It's all just wage slavery and utter subjugation of the masses.

However, the rights of the female in western society have, for whatever reason and by whomever, been fought for and won.

We have not been 'allowed' to have equality! What kind of patronising paternalistic tripe is that?

If the west becomes more and more 'islamisised', through the back door of silent invasion and use of sharia to deal with 'domestic' issues, all such rights will be eroded until they no longer exist and the west, male and female, will be the poorer for it.

you are not a feminist and you don't know what you are talking about. I, however, am a Muslim, a blackman, a feminist and proud. I bet you didn't know a man could a feminist though, did you?

Feminism is a human rights issue, not a gender specific movement.

Your comment about Islam is just stereotypical Islam baiting.

[edit on 123131p://pm3114 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by teapot


I agree, but women in some cases are still treated as lessor even in the west..just check your pay packet

and there is no back door ... no one is going to take over england / UK via sharia law because its NOT law in the uk no matter how you wish to spin it.

If a man imposes on a woman a so called "faith" law and that woman does not wish to be subjugated to such. She as a woman can get protection from her aggressor, as one does when beaten by her husband.....

you need to understand this is FAITH not LAW.

A woman can only get protection from an abuser if she knows where to go fo that protection. When she lives in a community which constantly and systematically oppresses women, there are chances that she is not only afraid to go to the authorities, she doesn't know where to go, especially if she is an immigrant. Tell her a lot of scary stories about British authorities, and make her afraid that if she goes to the authorities she will be deported, and fear and intimidation keep her locked up.

Even in Western nations, women who know their rights can be intimidated into remaining in oppressive, abusive relationships. Muslim women who don't know what their rights are, trapped in a environment that sees women as being inferior are even more easily trapped in these types of abusive, controlling relationships.

While relationships between the sexes are not perfect in the western world, they are light years ahead of Muslim relationships between the sexes, where women are still treated like slaves.

Originally posted by poet1b
A woman can only get protection from an abuser if she knows where to go fo that protection. When she lives in a community which constantly and systematically oppresses women, there are chances that she is not only afraid to go to the authorities, she doesn't know where to go, especially if she is an immigrant. Tell her a lot of scary stories about British authorities, and make her afraid that if she goes to the authorities she will be deported, and fear and intimidation keep her locked up.

Are suggesting that immigrant communities abuse their own woman folk? If you are then how can we be sure that your comment is based upon your concern of women's right issues within these communities of whom you make unsubstantiated and sweeping statements.

If ethnic minorities do systemically abuse their women folk as you allege because of cultural differences, how do account for the large numbers of women who are physically abused and sexually exploited despite the West's, as you imply, inherent superiority?

[edit on 053131p://pm3158 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by masonwatcher


I am not suggesting anything, it is well recorded how Muslims abuse their women with forced marriage of girls under 10 to old men, honor killings, burqa, violence against western women, the list goes on and on and the evidence is overwhelming.

Who do you think you are kidding?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

I am not suggesting anything, it is well recorded how Muslims abuse their women with forced marriage of girls under 10 to old men, honor killings, burqa, violence against western women, the list goes on and on and the evidence is overwhelming.

Who do you think you are kidding?

Apparently you are the kidder with your fallacious arguments. You think that you can pull the wool over the eyes of others by demonising a religion. It is well known that Jewish women have their head forcibly shaved and are declared as unclean but this does not suggest that all are treated in this way. It is also well documented that rape of women is very high in the West but that does not mean that all women are raped.

You however trawl through world wide news covering 1.5 billion people, find rare events then dish the dirt. You are an Islam baiter.

Looks like I will have to go back to highlighting Israeli crimes and misdemeanours just to give an adequate juxtaposition.

[edit on 073131p://pm3104 by masonwatcher]

Jewish women are not forced to shave their heads, a few do before they get married and some though again not many wear wigs over their own hair. The vast majority use no covering.

I for one do not condem moderate Islam, but I cannot name one Muslim country where woman have the same rights as men.

Forced marriages, honour killings, female genital mutilation and putting the burqa on girls as young as four, school children as young as nine having to fast during Ramadam has no place in the 21st century.

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
Jewish women are not forced to shave their heads, a few do before they get married and some though again not many wear wigs over their own hair. The vast majority use no covering.

I for one do not condem moderate Islam, but I cannot name one Muslim country where woman have the same rights as men.

Forced marriages, honour killings, female genital mutilation and putting the burqa on girls as young as four, school children as young as nine having to fast during Ramadam has no place in the 21st century.

Well most Islamic countries are third world countries, burqa is an Afghani costume and the priority for Afghanis is to recover from 30 years of war and not wear Western clothing, no child is compelled to fast; they may join in while having snacks, forced marraiges are forbidden and is a south Asian cusrtom, honour killing is a crime in Muslim countries.

My response using that mentality;

Western women are forced to wear bikinis, children are forced to eat toxic processed food and have autism promoting vaccines, young children as young as nine are abused by paedophiles and women are just raped and murdered. All this has no place in the 21st century.

See, it is easy and dumb.

reply to post by masonwatcher




BALONEY

Burqa's are common throughout Muslim culture, as are honor killings. Any laws against honor killings are typically ignored in Muslim nations, and only exist to pretend that the practice isn't condoned. Yes, most Muslims do see it as wrong, but a sizable number do approve. Forced marriage goes on all the time in many Muslim nations.

In a Muslim nation, the women who are raped are punished for enticing the men. It doesn't get more barbaric than that.

Western women are forced to wear bikini's, whoa that is a good one.

Kids love junk food, that is the problem.

Most of those vaccines are far more beneficial than they are bad.

Originally posted by masonwatcher

Well most Islamic countries are third world countries,

And will remain so as long as they remain in the grasp of Islam!

burqa is an Afghani costume and the priority for Afghanis is to recover from 30 years of war and not wear Western clothing,

Different types and styles of veils etc are worn throughout the Muslim world, the burqa is but one.

The priority for the majority of Afghani's is to gain a stable, democratic government and to recover from 30 years of war.
However, the vast majority of Afghani's support the UK / US / Canada's presence and their fight against The Taliban.
The Taliban committed heinous crimes upon the Afghani people and wish to do so again.
The Taliban destroyed so much of Afghanistan's culture and heritage.
The Taliban are brutal and repressive and wish to impose Sharia upon everyone.

no child is compelled to fast; they may join in while having snacks,

Good.
I will bow to your better knowledge as I must admit I do not know much about the protocols / custom etc of Ramadan.

forced marraiges are forbidden and is a south Asian cusrtom,

Forced and arranged marriages are THE custom throughout the whole Muslim world including Muslim communities in Europe and the US etc.

honour killing is a crime in Muslim countries.

Honour killings are practiced, to various extents, throughout the Muslim world and this practice has also been exported to the UK and US etc.
There are numerous well documented cases, several of which were sanctioned by Sharia clerics.

I do fully understand that the vast majority of Muslims find this practice as equally abhorent as non-Muslims, yet they do little or nothing to eliminate the practice.

Talk is cheap, Acts and Deeds my friends!

Western women are forced to wear bikinis,

As an admirer of the female form, in all it's fantastic variations, I only wish this were true!!

children are forced to eat toxic processed food and have autism promoting vaccines,

Alas so are we all, the vast majority have no option due to cash and other restrictions.

young children as young as nine are abused by paedophiles and women are just raped and murdered.

Unfortunately paedophilia occurs in most societies and cultures and needs to be stamped out.
Mohammed himself married a 6 year old girl.
He was considerate enough not to consumate the marriage until she was 9, up till then he just satisfied himself by 'thighing' her.

All this has no place in the 21st century.

At last some common ground and I do understand the point you were trying to make in your last post.
Unfortunatley Islam, and to a lesser degree ALL other organised religions help propagate these horrific practices.
The difference is that even The Catholic Church are trying to address some of the issues that face them whereas Sharia Law will help these and other barbaric practices to continue and indeed become more common.

Sharia seeks to dominate every single aspect of an individuals life, denies individual freedom of thought, will and choice, treats women little better than cattle and is particularly brutal in it's punishment for non-adherence.
It has no place in the 21st Century.


[edit on 17/7/09 by Freeborn]

Originally posted by masonwatcher

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

And don't forget the birth of rock an roll and the advent or invention of the 'teenager'.

New markets to exploit!

It's all just wage slavery and utter subjugation of the masses.

However, the rights of the female in western society have, for whatever reason and by whomever, been fought for and won.

We have not been 'allowed' to have equality! What kind of patronising paternalistic tripe is that?

If the west becomes more and more 'islamisised', through the back door of silent invasion and use of sharia to deal with 'domestic' issues, all such rights will be eroded until they no longer exist and the west, male and female, will be the poorer for it.

you are not a feminist and you don't know what you are talking about. I, however, am a Muslim, a blackman, a feminist and proud. I bet you didn't know a man could a feminist though, did you?

Feminism is a human rights issue, not a gender specific movement.

Your comment about Islam is just stereotypical Islam baiting.

[edit on 123131p://pm3114 by masonwatcher]

Have I hit a nerve? Is that what prompted your personal attack upon me?

The fact remains, the west is seeing mass influx via immigration and increased birth rates of Moslems from all over the world.

Our hard won freedoms (humanist, gender has no real role in the eternal struggle for liberty from control by the self selected elites) are being used to further the demands of Islam, namely that Islam become the world dominant religion.

Are you a member of Nation of Islam? I was once advised by these that moslem men revere their women! And that this is why they (women) must 'cover up'! Is that why they not only have to have complete control of the female, but somehow, the female is responsible for male sexual desire and activity? Has islam not heard of testostorone?

reply to post by masonwatcher


No none muslim need demonise Islam!

You are perfectly adept at doing that for yourselves.

reply to post by masonwatcher


Saudi women have to cover up, are not allowed to drive or go out without a man, this year a 23 year old woman there received 100 lashes and a year in prison for adultery, women have to walk behind men, a ten year old girl recently divorced her husband after a forced marriage.
Saudi is not a third world country

Women in Afghanistan executed and beaten for showing an ankle or hand by the Taliban.I suggest you Google womens rights campaigners in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries, there are hundreds of groups wanting freedom of dress and education, female and occassionaly male human rights activists are being killed by people who want women to be a possession with no voice.

According to Amnesty forced marriages are rampant in Afghanistan as is domestic violence and rape.

Schools are advised to excuse schoolchildren from PE sports and swimming during Ramadan because they will be weak.
Young girls of 4 or even 13 being made to wear a burkha they have no choice. There are Muslim schools in the UK who insist girls wear the burkha when outside at all times.

At least 3,000 forced marriages in the UK according to the Guardian.

www.guardian.co.uk...

At least 12 honour killings in the UK according to the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk...

Female genital mutilation is such a huge problem in the UK that a law was passed in 2003 to close the loophole in the previous law making it illegal for parents to have this done abroad.

I am a member of Amnesty and a human rights acivist when I see people making excuses for the subjugation of women it hits a raw nerve.

Female genital mutilation is such a huge problem in the UK that a law was passed in 2003 to close the loophole in the previous law making it illegal for parents to have this done abroad.

and here we have it FINALY ....

The topic was about the LAW not FAITH...

it was FOUND OUT by the UK and was BANNED ....

blaming Islam is the problem... just like blaming any other faith.

as long as the LAW protects people.. from stupid nutters then GOOD

But Do not say we are going be taken OVER by the BACK DOOR

WHEN IT IS NOT TURE... end of story .. i am done with this thread now

hope you all enjoy arguing over something that is not the case.

stupid article

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Dont you think it is a little stupid demonising members, just over an opinion, from day one since this thread was opened there, has been demonizing of members from everyone. This thread should be closed. The dicussion has steered away from the original topic. To slaggin each other off, leading to threats. Is this not against ATS rule.

If you cannot have a reasonable discussion, then leave the thread to those who can.

Just because you have an opinion. DOES NOT MAKE YOU RACIST.

Some members need to open thier eyes to that and grow the hell up.

reply to post by Laurauk


Im sorry but i have not demonized anyone. I have constantly said that using the "faith" as bait is not the law.

how can speaking the truth be demonizing?...

Look at the topic and read the article ? It says that we have sharia courts in the UK...

some on here have gone totally off topic... why? because of the lack of the law

and The reason I say that is due to the issues people have said.. that are not true.

I will only say this one more time

Not one law has ever been passed in the house of commons that makes sharia law legal in the united kingdom.. regardless of your views on Islam and the role it plays in some places... it is not LAW in the UK.. or coming through the back door....

If you feel so much about it i would suggest you speak to a Muslim who drinks and smokes...

do you think every Muslim is "Taliban" ? or something ?

This is a narrow minded view .. because not EVERY Muslim is a practicing Muslim.

Just because they have a label does not warrant you too blanket cover the religion.

When the IRA was bombing the United Kingdom did you go around shouting about Christians?

No you did not.. do you shout about the rights of women in Ireland who had to come to England to get an abortion ? because the "faith" they had would not allow them because of the pope?

You see confusion faith with LAW is a bad idea and this is based on Ideology and fear and not on LAW...

If you wish me to keep going I will be more than happy.

and I am not slagging you off as you did make valid points about a woman's rights and even gave you a star.. but the only reason I did was to point out injustice... but i did state that if a woman's rights are being abused then, she does have the LAW on her side.. and that OVER RULES her faith

if it was not the case... we would be living in some other country, I do not need to list them do I? as I am sure you could think of some on your own

But this is not there... this is here

so do not fear faith, fear the LAW because that is what comes first always...

reply to post by Laurauk


and putting everyone in the same box is a joke.

More so when you do not understand the laws of the land....

We have Muslims in the army.... I am sorry but I know the LAW because i study it

do you?

and let me ask you a question... have you ever watch one parliamentary proceeding ?

Simple Question... I would like a response be for you slag me off