'Gayby boom': Children of gay couples speak out

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I disagree with both of you. Not all gender roles can be shared. Just look at how children respond to the deeper voice of the father or how they get a sense of risk taking, masculinity, strength and power, etc.

Also, look at how they get a sense of tenderness, softness, kindness, etc from their mothers.

Yes people can mimic parts of those roles, but it loses something when they are not tied to specific genders.

A boy gets a sense of his manhood from his father and a girl gets a sense of womanhood from her mother.

Also, look at how a boy learns to treat a woman from watching his father or a girl gets a sense of how a man should treat her from her father.

These things are just hard coded into humans, and fake role playing will not overcome this need that children have.

It has been found that children get a sense of their worth primarily from their fathers.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Intimate doesnt mean sex. It means intimate. So, in my opinion, holding hands and kissing between two males in front of a child (which are uintimate acts) sends the wrong message at the wrong time.

As I said, the boy who doesnt know a thing about sexuality is easily influenced, in fact even copies things precisely as he sees them. If you don't know that you don't have kids.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by open_eyeballs]

reply to post by grapesofraft


That's in the eye of the beholder my friend. I keep using my children as an example but it's true. They are just like any other kid, raised in any other family setting.

They have all the things you listed as being provided by a mother or father, and yet they were raised with 2 fathers. Now some might say we are an exeption to the rule, but I think that's just a false argument.

All that matters is that you provide a loving, nurturing, educational and open environment for children to grow up and they are just fine.

~Keeper

Originally posted by mjfromga
reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

 

So you think it's OK for any two people or group of people to marry? It's OK for a brother and sister, father and daughter, a man and four women, etc.? Why even have marriage, then, let's all just have one big orgy and the government can pay for us all (Oh, yea, that's what we are going to with Obama).

Back to the marriage deal. I don't think government should recognize marriage. That aspect of life should be dealt with on a personal level with whatever religious denomination of one's choosing.

If Government were to create a Universal Civil Union, recognized by all jurisdictions, we, as a people, would be able to lay the marriage thing to rest and leave it to the religious congregations to debate who should and should not be recognized as married.

A) Orgies sound great...though, they are not conducive to an STD-free lifestyle and should only be participated in by protected, consenting adults.

B) I don't know too many people who think it's a good idea for a father and daughter to fornicate. But, such things are LEGAL in some places, and not legal in any Industrialized Nation. If they would like to marry, the participating parties should relocate where law allows them to live as they please.

C) I doubt President Obama will allow government funded orgies unless he is personally involved...and he seems a bit busy as of late. If he gets around to it, though, what a great idea!!! Hell, sell advertising space and get corporate sponsors and put it on Cable Television!!! That way, the government won't have to front a dime!...................how ridiculous...

reply to post by open_eyeballs


I have to disagree. Me and my husband have never hidden our affection in front of our children. Mind you when I say affection I don't mean in the sexual sort of way.

I think it thought my children to break down social barriers and take people for who they were as people, not by what they enjoyed or what they preffered in regards to sexual orientation.

It takes explanation as well however. We've always sat down with our kids when they became a certain age and we thought they were able to understand, and talked to them about what it meant to have 2 fathers and the type of environment they are in.

If my children had ever been confused about that, they would have said so, or we would have noticed. but again, we took the time and effort to make sure they grew up like normal kids. And they did.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I disagree. I was raised by my mother since I was 5. It took me until I was about 35 to get a real sense of what it meant to be a man. I had few examples to go by on the details of life. It took until I had a son and could realize the things he needed me to be to really get a sense of that.

I am sure your children feel that they are fine. I did as well, but I always felt out of touch with what my role should be as I did not have a clear male role model for the everyday details of family life. I would hazard a guess to say that they will experience some of the same issues. I am not saying it was your fault, but that it just is what it is and that people need male and female role models in their life on a daily basis.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by grapesofraft]

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Sorry, but that's just hogwash! Non-sexual displays of affection do not harm a child, regardless of who the parents may be. I'm sure that if either one of us were to search for a study on this, we would find that it supports my position. I'd do it myself, but the Closer is on, so I'm posting during commercial breaks.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Im ok with disagreement.

But even though you put out the effort to give them a normal upbringing, it doesnt mean they did.

I hope it has not affected them in their sexuality. I hope they have become who they are without the stigma of two fathers, but to say unequivically they have had a "normal" (normal being a traditional mother and father) childhood I don't think is up to you. I would say that will be up to their reflections as adults. Hopefully they have lived without insult or isolation because of your relationship.

And again, i have already stated this, once the child has become "of age" and has a much more clear understanding of sexuality and the implications of sexual decision making, then it does not matter (as much or in the same influential ways) what sexuality the father and mother posses.

My main argument is from the adolescence age starting at 2 to early stages of puberty (12ish...every boy is different) boys in particular are easily influenced, and your alternative lifestyle did have an affect (just as any parental figures have) on who they will or have become.

reply to post by grapesofraft


That's you're personal journey with the matter. I was raised by a single mother as well , and I never had any issues with what role I should play.

I am not a flamboyant homosexual, most people are shocked when they find out that I am.

My oldest is 18, she just left for university, she's had a boyfriend since she was 16 and is no way confused about what role she should play in that relationship.

My two youngest, well that's to be seen, but again I foresee no clear issues. I think another thing you are overlooking here is the openess of our household.

There are no secrets in my house, we have family dinner every night, no exeptions and we talk about everything we do. My children know and on multiple occasions have taken advantage of the fact that they can talk to us about anything without being chastised or spoken to like children.

I have adult conversations with my children. I treat them like adults and in turn they respect us more for not running them around. As well you grew up with a single parent, if you'd had another female in your life which was generally more "male" inclined in thoughts and manurisms, you may not have had any issues.

~Keeper

These are personal experiences...not the sum product of the whole.

I was raised by my mother. I've never had a father. I'm 24 years old.

I met my father for the first time 6 months ago. I'm glad I did, but I don't intend on proactively speaking to him ever again.

I know what it means to "be a Man". It means to stick up for yourself, your family, and your monetary possessions. It means to teach, lecture and discipline. It means to care, love and be passionate towards those close to you. It means to provide safety to your loved ones. But, these aren't "Man" traits, these are PARENT traits.

It does not mean playing (American) football in the back yard. I, personally, am a very accomplished soccer player (or football across the pond). Is that any less masculine than throwing a baseball or a "pigskin" around in the back yard?

To be a "Man" in the parenting point of view means to be a parent...not someone with male anatomy and a child.

double post....

[edit on 6/29/2009 by tothetenthpower]

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Nopes, none of my children are gay or show any signs of going towards that path at all.

And yes they have in the past gotten grief, not my two youngest, but my eldest daughter did. She shrugged it off, never let it bother her because she was more mature than that, and understood that there was nothing wrong with her home life.

They are all accomplished musicians, they are at the top of their classes and have a very wide social circle. They are well rounded, well adjusted kids, and it's not because they were raised by two men, it's cause they were raised by two parents who loved them and gave them everything they needed.

~Keeper

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Your welcome to your opinion.

Its not just the act of kissing or the act of hugging or the act of holding hands. It is the interaction along with those actions; the confusion for someone who has not reached a mature age to understand who their parents are and the decisions they have made. Because they are ignorant and clueless to how sexuality works in general.

Its my opinion a child should not have such an influence like that. Sorry if you don't like that

reply to post by Adagio11


Yeah I thought that as well when I was 24, but as you get older you start to become aware of the things that you missed and/or are missing.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


It's not that I don't like that, it's that I just don't agree with it. I had very heterosexual parents who would display such affections. It didn't form my sexual identity, but it did show me what a loving relationship is. To not do so is more damaging than to do so, regardless if your parents are straight or gay. It's just my opinion.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I like you. You are pretty reasonable guy. You handle this stuff with such an adult manner. Got to give you props.

reply to post by grapesofraft


Well, thank you. Unreasonable responses and positions only ask for the same in return. In that environment, growth is impossible. The biggest reason I come here is to learn and grow, to try to understand the ideas of my fellow man (or woman), otherwise it would be an utter waste of time. I'd be better off playing games.

reply to post by Adagio11


Marriage doesn't necessarily mean fornication. Many couples haven't done it in decades, and many strangers do it because...well, they can. So what should constitute a marriage and all the benefits that go with it? It is love? Is that enough? Just because a father/daughter marry doesn't mean they would sleep tegether -- he might be a wealty old 90 year-old and doesn't want his estate to be heavily taxed on his death. So, marry the daughter and then she can have it all.

I'm just saying if we don't have rules, then anything goes. And if we decide to have rules then somebody will be left out, and that's OK, too, if the majority votes. If we start down the slippery slope of allowing some exceptions, then why not all? And if that is the case, why bother to have any marriages?

reply to post by grapesofraft


After experiencing what I did with my father, I'm pretty sure the things that were/are missing from my life because I was raised solely by my mother were definitely in my best interest.

I didn't have anyone in that "father role"...but my mom did a very good job supplementing.

It is very difficult for anyone to say what they will and will not miss, regardless of age, because everyone matures at a much different rate. We haven't had anywhere near the same experience growing up, nor will we as we lead our lives. But, our upbringing will lead us to know whether or not we will indeed miss the one of the parental figures as we go through experiences day by day.

I've been through a lot...none of it as bad as some people have been through. And I can't say this with absolute certainty, but I have been well prepared for life by my mother, and I'm fairly certain that she set me well for the years following, too.

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth


I'm a girl, and I wouldn't give Vin Diesel a second glance based on his appearance. Far too many muscles. Atheletic is fine, but muscles that are too big are flat out disgusting. Besides, I'd rather have the slightly plump teddy-bear type anyway. Not all girls like the same type of guy. Not everyone likes the muscle men, so I highly doubt children raised by homosexual couples will have a problem finding a date.
I don't think a boy raised by girls would turn out effeminate. That child will still have father figures in his life, what with uncles, grandfathers, or older cousins. It's not like the two mothers will be the only adults he'll ever be around. Same for a daughter raised by two males. There will almost always be cousins, aunts, and grandmothers around.
Also, I think pre-defined sexual roles are doing more harm than good. Children that don't fit that mold end up being teased or outcast because they aren't macho, or because they are a tomboy, when there's nothing wrong with either.

Originally posted by felonius
The question is not should gays marry.

The question is where does it stop.

If you open interpretation that wide,
bothers and sisters
parent child
adult child
polygomy

Incest will never be legal because first and foremost, it messes with the gene pool and the offspring of incest can end up with all sorts of problems.
Adult/Child. That will never be legal because we have an age of consent, and while I can see the age of consent changing to 16 or 17 eventually, it will never go below that. So that will always be illegal.
I personally don't see the problem with polygamy if all involved are fine with it, and all involved are adults. It's the polygamists that marry off children that I have a problem with.
However, there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Both are consenting adults. The children they raise will turn out just fine.
Bestiality was mentioned as well. This will never, ever be legal, because animals can not give consent, and you need consent to marry.