Was Michael Jackson Framed? by Mary A. Fischer GQ magazine

slander is slander
attacking ones character, even if they are in the wrong, just makes people point fingers back and forth

i see the point of the article but they are digging the boys father, the lawyers, and the dentist a new asshole which is quite similar to what the media did to michael.

in other words... best to keep your mouth shut about other people

if i'm the only one that feels this way then go ahead and attack but i'm confident that there willl be at least one other ATS member that realizes that since no one knows the actual "truth" ... its not right to spread hate towards anybody

no one is spreading any hate, we are discussing points of the article that interest us to maybe discuss those points more. That is what a debate is all about.

If you feel so strongly about your slander point you made then half the posts/threads on ats would fall into that same category aswell, we are just people going over what we are presented with, simple as that. Not everyone will agree with each others views, i dont mind that, what i do mind is people basing those views on something that have never looked into and researched and deciding just to go along with the media masses.

as previously stated by someone, if someone reads the article and still of the view that mj was guilty then please, feel free to discuss your point of view and not just say eh is a molester get over it then leave.

i dunno where i said he was a molester... and i was discussing the article i thought

not really sure why my comment isnt open up to debate either

GQ could come out with an article stating the "facts" that the little boy stated that he got molested

GQ could have (and did) come out with an article stating the "facts" that the father coerced the child to make up the molestation charges

so just to say that GQ is a reputable source and creditable doesn't really say anything

media is media. that was my point.

and yes you are spreading hate towards the father of the child, there is definately some bashing of the lawyer

nobody sees a parallel between this and bashing MJ?

sorry i wasn't saying that you were calling mj a molester, i was making the comment that some have,

i understand your viewpoint that GQ is still media related etc and therefore mayb not entirely true as you say, but well for myself anyway, i dont just base my opinion on this article but also on the fact that i followed the case at the time and also read other articles on the subject. Of course we will never know for sure about any of it as sometimes its hard to wade through all the bs to get to the truth of it.

tbh and imo the lawyer deserves to be bashed for his conduct and so does the father ( if it pertains that it is true), i wouldnt bash the child as , he was just a child, the adults should have known better.

i also understand your view point that bashing them is the same as people bashing mj, yes thats true and i agree.. 2 wrongs dont make a right. But whilst trying to get to the facts unfortunatly some people get bashed.

thats all i wanted to hear... that i'm not crazy

i mean the audio recordings of the father are enough for him to "deserve" the bashing

but the real blame should be put on the media for taking the story and running with it.

without the media this dad would've just been some lunatic on a rant

reply to post by LiveForever8

Have you got any other articles about the second trial that give an honest and well researched account about what happened?

Which trial in particular?

I'm working on some other information in connection with trials and have some feelers out.

I hope I can find more - obviously will post if I do.

thanks

reply to post by dannyfal

but the real blame should be put on the media for taking the story and running with it.

without the media this dad would've just been some lunatic on a rant

OH! I've been waiting for someone to see this and say it.

The tabloids that *went with* unconfirmed information and hearsay are the despicable lot IMO are just as - if not more - despicable the original bunch who began the revenge / vendetta / extortion!

Thank you! Applause to you!

yes the media should be held largely to blame for it , as per usual they took something and added this and fabricated that till we have what we see today, so as well as the father and lawyer the media should be held largly to blame

I was wondering when this stuff was going to pop up.
The man just died so let him RIP.

Alien Mind

Personal opinion is that something occurred and the parents knew about it and essentially pimped their children in which case they are just as guilty. If you read the case files there were other children that came forward but, they did not want to testify or try to get compensation because of the attention/shame they would receive. In the 2005 case I truly believe that the parents put their children in his care hoping that they would be molested.

La Toya (sister) said in an interview that he had young boys in and out of his room all his life and his own mother called him a derogatory name for gay. Magically she now blames that on her ex-husband. Did everyone get a plot book you know, relatives, children, parents, staff, media? All the talk about the bad abusive childhood and pretending to be a kid even makes him fit more into the role of the psychological profile of a pedophile.

See How many darts stick
(Profile Of A Pedophile)

# Popular with both children and adults.
# Appears to be trustworthy and respectable. Has good standing in the community.
# Prefers the company of children. Feels more comfortable with children than adults. Is mainly attracted to prepubescent boys and girls. Can be heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.
# "Grooms" children with quality time, video games, parties, candy, toys, gifts, money.
# Singles out children who seem troubled and in need of attention or affection.
# Often dates or marries women with children that are the age of his preferred victims.
# Rarely forces or coerces a child into sexual contact. Usually through trust and friendship. Physical contact is gradual, from touching, to picking up, to holding on lap, to kissing, etc.
# Derives gratification in a number of ways. For some, looking is enough. For others, taking pictures or watching children undress is enough. Still others require more contact.
# Finds different ways and places to be alone with children.
# Are primarily (but not always) male, masculine, better-educated, more religious than average, in their thirties, and choose jobs allowing them greater access to children.
# Are usually family men, have no criminal record, and deny that they abuse children, even after caught, convicted, incarcerated, and court-ordered into a sex offender program. The marriage is often troubled by sexual dysfunction, and serves as a smokescreen for the pedophile's true preferences and practices.
# Are often, but not always, themselves victims of some form of childhood sexual abuse.
# Even if the pedophile has no children, his home is usually child-friendly, with toys, books, video games, computers, bikes, swing sets, skateboards, rec room, pool, snacks - things to attract children to his home and keep them coming back. Usually the items reflect the preferred age of his victims.
# A female pedophile usually abuses a child when partnered with an adult male pedophile, and is often herself a victim of chronic sexual abuse.

Food for thought-
As you know different people have different views on what sex is. For instance Clinton didn't think it was sex to use a cigar on Monica since it didn't involve intercourse. Some bisexual men do not think they cheated on their wives because it was a man or it was just a hand job from a female coworker. My elderly neighbor arrested as a pedophile thought he did nothing wrong because he didn't view fondling his grandchildren as sex because he didn't have intercourse. I met the old guy when I first moved here and he creeped me out because he acted like an 8 year old.

I mean no red flags over a guy that sat on television with a face that was so disfigured he looked like a cross between the Joker and an elderly Bette Davis and smiling, talking about sleeping with many children? Show me anyone else that is afflicted with this "Peter Pan syndrome" that is not retarded or in a mental institution just one. Many people have bad childhoods and have never seen anyone regress to being as bizarre as this. I mean come on this is the real world. Do you really believe he was a 50yo impotent child?

We may never hear the complete truth either way because the guy was a recluse with obvious mental, chemical problems that should have been dealt with decades ago.

reply to post by seataka


Sorry but I am not jumping on this bandwagon.

Never having a childhood is an not an excuse. And a poor one at that. Personally I'm sick of hearing about it, as it some how justifies his perverted behavior. Neither did any of his brothers with the Jackson 5, yet you don't hear them being accused of child molestation do you?

He grew up plenty enough as an adult to have children with a surrogate mother.

Plenty of people in life feel they did not have a childhood. Whither it be from persistent parents and education, or a sense of duty to other siblings when their parental figures died abruptly at an early age. I knew plenty of people in high school in which childhood suddenly was ended and they had to become adults. My cousin being one of them.

Make no excuse for the man. He had a talented career in the 1980's worthy of attention and praise, but that will be forever tarnished by allegations and payoffs that he himself created by his actions. His death changes NOTHING about that and his past. You are who you make yourself to be.

The facts are clear. In public he was a highly talented artist. Praised, rewarded, granted with great riches. In private the man slept with little boys that were not his own, naked in his own bed, coupled with child molestation accusations on more than one occasion.

Here is my counter theory. He was highly manipulative, learned in the art of deception from singing at strip clubs as a child and his father. He extorted you on your view of him being a harmless little boy inside, never having a childhood when in reality he was a monster. It's just as possible as this article.

Had Joe down the street done what Jackson admitted he had done with boys over the years, coupled with allegations of sexual abuse, Joe down the street would be in prison right now and labeled a sex offender.

The difference between Joe and Jackson is that Jackson has millions to make it go away, and Joe doesn't.

The amount of payoff so that the allegations were settled out of court instead of reaching the public was proof enough for me and many others. $20 million was the price for his freedom, and not go to jail for a very long time. Those who do not follow him or other artists blindly see this plain as day.

You don't pay $20 million just to make someone go away, you pay them to keep their mouth shut as part of a deal not to go to trial. Had he been innocent, he should have went to trial and had his innocence vindicated.

Is it better to be convicted of child molestation, or always leave that question unanswered so there's two sides? He was a very smart man, as he manipulated the situation to just that. Today people still debate if he was a pedophile, or just a really kind man. Had he been convicted and the facts of that case laid out, all those questions would be answered -- for or against.

My money is on pedophile, a $20 million one at that.

As for the topic, might want to check for some form of plagiarism. I've read something eerily similar during his last trial for child molestation on how he's just a poor guy hammered by the world and extorted.

reply to post by toochaos4u
I don’t know how long you’ve been a member of ATS, but just in case you didn’t know - or you forgot - it’s not only ATS etiquette but normally something required - that you provide facts (urls, content from an external source, etc) to back up your claims.

I’m interested to see where you got the following information but I’m not going to go searching around the internet for it.
I’ve provided facts to back up my opinions and I would appreciate if you would do the same.

If you read the case files there were other children that came forward but, they did not want to testify or try to get compensation because of the attention/shame they would receive. In the 2005 case I truly believe that the parents put their children in his care hoping that they would be molested.

??? Would you please provide the evidence, the url, the case number - something?

I’ll reiterate by once again quoting from the article this thread is based on:

After millions of dollars were spent by prosecutors and police departments in two jurisdictions, and after two grand juries questioned close to 200 witnesses, including 30 children who knew Jackson, not a single corroborating witness could be found.

As to the *Profile of a Pedophile* would you please include the url to the external source for the information you posted - ATS rules thanks.

Your *Food for thought* is interesting and I appreciate your opinion even if I don't agree with it.

For example:

I mean come on this is the real world.

The *real world* for you is just that - your real world.

By no means is it the *real world* for someone else, nor can you judge another's *real world* using yours as a measuring stick.

Example: Which is *real world*?

The woman in China who kills and skins and cooks puppies for her families Sunday dinner?
OR
The woman who saunters down 5th avenue along side her French poodle that’s sporting a diamond studded collar, nail polish, a bow in it’s hair and a handler trailing somewhere behind ready to pick up little Muffins poop.

Both are real world and one is just as unbelievable as the other - depending on who’s doing the judging.

Michael never had the real world - he wanted - and this made him unable to exist peacefully in the world he had.

Thanks for your post

reply to post by Not Authorized
Thank you for your opinion.

I will not take up a debate with your,'theories'.

What I will take affront with is your last line.

As for the topic, might want to check for some form of plagiarism. I've read something eerily similar during his last trial for child molestation on how he's just a poor guy hammered by the world and extorted.

Your accusation of plagiarism is ABSURD at best.

The author of this article (one I sincerely doubt you read) is an award winning author who’s written for Time, Life, Rollingstone, and Gentleman's Quarterly, where this article originally appeared. (Once again something you would have seen if you bothered to read even the first post in the thread).

So, because you’ve read something *eerily similar* - but without providing a shred of evidence to support said supposed article - you’re going to suggest plagiarism?

I’ll refrain from giving my informed opinion of your, well, suggestion.

You would be wise to retract your insinuation of plagiarism.

peace



[edit on 29-6-2009 by silo13]

I don't know where or not to raise one eyebrow, or both.

reply to post by silo13


I stand by my assertion that it's "eerily familiar". Sorry if you are offended at my opinion, as you stated it was. But I will not retract it, as it is opinion.

I find it more insulting as a nation that we mourn the death of a man who fit a pedophile almost to the letter, yet the real story with Farrah Faucett battling cancer and dying practically in her long time companion and soon to be husband's arms is virtually ignored.

You presented this theory as something new. This is not new, it's old and the same propaganda garbage that has surrounded his entire career since the initial accusations.

Heck, it could have been the same author or the Jackson PR department. Who knows? Personally I don't care either way. It doesn't matter who writes this kind of propaganda. The end result is the same. Jackson and his actions fit the profile of a pedophile hook line and sinker and no award winning author will change that fact.

I don't know whats more insulting to Jackson. Claiming he was mentally challenged and incompetent for his age, or a pedophile. In today's society, obviously being mentally incompetent is the preferred path and that's exactly what his PR team strove for and seems to have achieved.

So now that he's dead, lets repackage it and try to sell the story off sympathy points for those on the fence at the suddenness of it? No, I don't think so. I already gave my kudos to his ability as an artist, but that will not make me forget his personal life and actions. He will be forever tarnished by those accusations and payoffs.

Oh and to help out the above poster with needing sources, here's a general one covering the same profile he gave.

www.childluresprevention.com...

It's common knowledge what to look out for, especially if you have children. I would hope if you have children that you know the profile of a pedophile. Numerous sources and knowledge of them is readily available everywhere.

I can go through his entire list he gave, and provide actual facts provided in court, on TV, or his very words while being interviewed of his actions that fit that description almost exactly and that sir, is not my "opinion".

I stand by my assertion that it's "eerily familiar". Sorry if you are offended at my opinion, as you stated it was. But I will not retract it, as it is opinion.

I’ve no problem that it’s familiar - I’ve a problem you’re insinuating plagiarism in connection to an award winning author of international acclaim that just happens to be a *guest* so to speak here on ATS.

Your opinion is one thing, insinuating plagiarism is another.

As for the rest of your post I’m not going to pick it apart and debate it point by point when you refuse to see facts or keep mixing apples and oranges or substituting theory for fact.

You ‘say’ I’m presenting a theory as something new.

That just makes me laugh, honestly - I mean one, it isn’t a ‘theory’ it’s a piece of non-fiction and two, if I was presenting something as *new* why, oh why, (laughing again) would I put the DATE in the bloomin’ heading! ---> 1994

So truly, I’m just not going to waste my time.

Oh, beyond the other obvious (to me) holes in your ‘opinions’ - I’m not a Sir.

lol

Drug addict that prefers the company of children and sleeps with them.

That's enough for me. Don't need anything else. He was told by his family and mgmt to stop sleeping with children. He could not.

I believe he was abused in many ways his entire life but that does not excuse his behavior.

Do you have young children? Well I am a middle aged man do you mind if they come over and sleep in my bedroom with me. I promise I am a good guy and nothing "bad" will happen. OK with you?

reply to post by silo13


Sorry, thought it was easy enough to look up. Google has it.

Sure thing, sources
Profile Of A Predator

LaToya Trouble For Micheal?

In 1994, during the height of the original Jackson molestation probe, LaToya Jackson told reporters in Israel she'd seen a $1 million check that was written, she said, to buy the silence of the family of a boy--a boy whom the prosecution wanted to claim was abused by her brother. (LaToya Jackson, a former pinup and pitchwoman for the Psychic Friends Network, has since returned to the Jackson family way, telling ABC News this year that her brother is "misunderstood.")

Jacksons refute LaToya charge that Micheal kept boys in the home

LaToya Jackson recently did an about face and has charged that brother Michael has molested young boys over the years at the family's home and that her mother, Katherine, knew about it. She made her charges first at a news conference in Tel Aviv, Israel, suggesting that "I can't remain silent. I will not be a silent collaborator in his crimes against small, innocent children." She said that she is a victim of child abuse herself and knows how the alleged victims will be scarred for life. She also said her mother had shown her checks that Michael had made out to the families of the boys. "I don't know if these children were apparently bought from the parents by Michael or not."

I was molested says son of Jackson's Maid (payout of 1-2 million)
"Way Before Jordan Chandler"

Corey Feldman Says Michael Jackson Showed Him Nude Photos

My request again is that anyone find another 30+ man that has "Peter Pan Syndrome" and "innocently" sleeps with pre-pubescent children. He can be neither retarded nor in a mental institution.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss


Do you have young children? Well I am a middle aged man do you mind if they come over and sleep in my bedroom with me. I promise I am a good guy and nothing "bad" will happen. OK with you?

Now your in big trouble, I hope all your neighbors are aware of these allegations.

Now if your local media gets a hold of these allegations sorry we can't help you. The public will believe it all and there is no way out of this for you. You are no longer innocent, nothing you can say or do will help you. Go ahead recant your story.

reply to post by Leo Strauss


Haha! Oh no I have found another man with "Peter Pan Syndrome"!
Do you wear bear and snowflake jammies?
Make sure you distort your face and paint it up like the joker as that is a sure sign you are innocent!