Update on the fake Bearer Bonds - w/source

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by jimmyx

 

So what would your opinion be in this instance?

my guess is that parts of this story are not true, and since no further information is available, we'll never know. lets just say for now i'm leaning toward a fake story. after all, there have been cases where diamond traders have been carrying millions of dollars woth of stones in a simple satchal aboard a common airline carrier, so there is a sort of arrogant trust by the wealthy in these matters.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by jimmyx]

reply to post by jimmyx


Yeah, I agree

I see this as something that happened.. someone caught wind of it.. turned it into something a lot bigger than it was.. then just speculation from there..

What I do know is that -

1. These bonds are all forgeries

2. It was not a crime in that country to have these (detainable offense)

3. There has been a strong media campaign globally against the us dollar

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Yeah, I agree

I see this as something that happened.. someone caught wind of it.. turned it into something a lot bigger than it was.. then just speculation from there..

What I do know is that -

1. These bonds are all forgeries

2. It was not a crime in that country to have these (detainable offense)

3. There has been a strong media campaign globally against the us dollar

i am not cognizant of the first two, but on your third point, i think the "world" is still not ready for another reserve currency. mainly due to trust and reliability issues. even with our current problems having stunned the world financial markets, there is still not a more broad based, reliable currency around. however, many countries are looking for one. fluctuations of other countries (china, india, russia,) currencies of 20% to 50% in the past, have had a fear factor that should keep the dollar afloat. but, i do see a slow erosion of the dollar. remember, outstanding currency supply is measured against a countries GDP, and america is still in better shape then alot of the other countries.

reply to post by jimmyx


I more than 100% agree with what you say.

As for #1- I am going with the "official word" and that bearer bonds have never been issued in such denominations

As for #2 - it is listed in the article i posted

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by jimmyx

 

I more than 100% agree with what you say.

As for #1- I am going with the "official word" and that bearer bonds have never been issued in such denominations

As for #2 - it is listed in the article i posted

i agree with your 2 points that this story is the offical story listed.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Bhadhidar

 

Yeah, I get what you mean, but here is my problem.

Do you think these are real or fake? Because I guess that changes how you view these.

I think it makes sense honestly (i think they are fake) to carry them like they did.

I also think this is part of a global media disinformation campaign against the US DOLLAR, I base this on obviously more than this, and have listed my opinions in the up to the minute market thread.

I just think if people were "in the know" they could get these to their destination no problem, and just wouldn't deal with all the drama associated through "retail" routes.

I mean, if the people can't check what is in their bag, they just can't check, and I don't see how you could have leaks when no one knows what is in there (the bag/pouch) in the first place... thats the point I am trying to make I guess.

I think the bonds were/are real.


I think the bonds were to be exchanged, or "fenced" for gold, probably in Switzerland, at a significantly discounted rate (thus making some of the bonds exchanged essentially "worthless"), and that the gold was to be (and probably has been) used to pay off high-ranking individuals in Syria, Jordan, Iran, and Georgia to further US policy objectives in those countries.


I think that it does not matter whether or not anyone was able to "look into" a diplomatic pouch; the mere fact that a "diplomatic pouch" traveled from a particular point to a particular point, under the official aegis enjoyed by such parcels, on a particular date, would be enough to raise intelligence alarms in certain, opposing countries.

It's not what is IN bag that would raise concerns, initially, it's merely the fact that there was a bag, and that certain events followed the arrival of that bag, that could be politically damning.


If "A" delivers a parcel to "B", who happens to be high in the government of country "C", and if something beneficial to "A's" country then takes place in "B's" country, "D" can then pretty much surmise what was likely in the that parcel; without ever having "looked in it".



I also believe that the "siezure" was staged by US officials, likely with the cooperation of the the Italian government, to provide the US, through the Treasury department, with an opportunity to pubiclly discredit the bonds in question.

This public discreditation would accomplish two objectives:

-First, it would establish Plausible Deniability by declaring the bonds to fakes and/or worthless, the US severes any connection to the perpetrators of the operations and, more importantly, the consequential Events of the operation.

-Second, by declaring the bonds (with conveniently published photos) to be fake, the US protects itself from future blackmail attempts, using the bonds as proof (like the photo negatives of an illicit tryst!).


This declaration also goes a long way toward protecting the value of the US dollar, if I'm not mistaken, since, if the world thinks the bonds are fake, the world will not be concerned over the effect the obligation those bonds represent.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Bhadhidar]

Hmmm...Treasury and USSS say they are fake...do you think they would EVER admit they are real???

Not to imply that I have any clue on what the absolute truth is in this case, it just smells funny...my "spidey senses" are tingling with this story....Just out of stubbornness (and this is a conspiracy site, after all)..I'm just not buying the "official" line...yet. That may change as the facts are brought to light, if they ever are. My gut is telling me to follow this and connect the dots down the road...I think the rabbit hole goes much deeper...

My guess is this bond hack was created for artistic value. The actual paper was a high quality production that involved someone that knew what they were doing.

The story line about bonds from the 1930's being transported by train rings well with tales about the Orient Express line that carried diplomats and Curriers across Europe before WW2.

The Orient Express service ended in 1962 and was replaced by a standard train.. Perhaps as tribute to the history of the service two movies were produced in 1962. There was the more familiar James Bond "From Russia with Love" and a lesser known short named "Phoney Express". What agent X.13 has to do with Kennedy bonds is beyond me...

Originally posted by RolandBrichter
Hmmm...Treasury and USSS say they are fake...do you think they would EVER admit they are real???

Not to imply that I have any clue on what the absolute truth is in this case, it just smells funny...my "spidey senses" are tingling with this story....Just out of stubbornness (and this is a conspiracy site, after all)..I'm just not buying the "official" line...yet. That may change as the facts are brought to light, if they ever are. My gut is telling me to follow this and connect the dots down the road...I think the rabbit hole goes much deeper...

there is a designed reason why this was made public...info or disinfo. i am not interested in the bonds themselves. i am extremely interested in who blew the whistle. that would expose more of what is going on, by traveling down that "rabbit hole" you talk about

reply to post by Bhadhidar


I know, but lets think of it this way?

We know kennedy bonds were never produced, so wouldnt you have to say that most likely the others are fake as well? Disregard everything else, but just focus on that part.

reply to post by GreenBicMan



Focusing on the supposed "Kennedy Bonds" may very well be exactly what you're intended to do.


By including documents that are irrefutably fake with the genuine articles, it becomes much easier for the entire lot to be dismissed as phoney by the MSM (the Italian government was already in on the plot); exactly the kind of "Nothing to see here, move along" response required by the perpetrators.


One of the oldest tricks in the smuggler's handbook. Want to smuggle a precious diamond across the border? Put it in a necklace of fake diamonds on the neck of a pretty woman.

If customs stops her, so much the better: the fake stones will usually convince the hurried and harried customs officials that ALL the stones are fake, helped along by a bit of flirtatious acting on the part of the beautiful "mule".

And since this operation was supposed to appear to be a "smuggling" operation, what better way to make it look "real" than to use one of the oldest of the smugglers' ploys?



But then, I'm sure you've already figured this rouse out for yourself, right?

reply to post by Bhadhidar


I guess I just dont "see it" that way.

IMO its either a poor attempt at later scamming someone, and they got caught or a disinformation campaign

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by Bhadhidar

 

I guess I just dont "see it" that way.

IMO its either a poor attempt at later scamming someone, and they got caught or a disinformation campaign

who knows.....how many darn options are there

reply to post by cpdaman


I dont know..


I guess the only point I am trying to make is I think all the bonds were fake.

Answering in this thread is a creative exercise. If you are sure the Kennedy bonds were phoney than you have to explain how all the minuteman missiles were paid for back in the 1960's? You don't get huge monolithic cold war satellite and missile programs built with current year taxes. Same kind of a situation we are running into today with the TARP funds, the debt is going to remain for a very long time.

These are facts so you can't just dismiss the whole story based on the Italian governments rendering of the event being extremely abstract.

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate


Well, I guess then my answer would have to be they did not use funding relating to bearer bonds (because, if you believe anything the govt. says) bearer bonds were not made in high denomination notes.

The bond "bearers" in this story were described as Japanese or at least Asian. Japan gets much of its military protection from the US so they have been historically big purchasers of US bonds. The story was primarily shown in the Japanese media. Many middle aged Japanese readers might have identified with the Japanese "couriers".

The Japanese public is probably very aware of the large US bond purchases made by Japan. During the Kennedy administration when many of these older Japanese readers were still children, Japan would have bought up a large portion of the bonds issued for the US military complex.

Anything like a 50 year bond would have a huge yield over the period and any remaining debts would likely have been rollover of shorter term paper.

I agree all the details of this bond story are bogus and it was probably written just to get people thinking about the problem of the current expanding US debt devaluing the prior Japanese bond purchases.

These days we are talking about US GDP to debt ratio estimates for 2045. The world is getting tired of taking on US debt and earning only a 3% APR while the wealthy US bankers being bailed out by the TARP funds drive up the stock market indexes by 120% APR!

Originally posted by fromunclexcommunicate

I agree all the details of this bond story are bogus and it was probably written just to get people thinking about the problem of the current expanding US debt devaluing the prior Japanese bond purchases.

These days we are talking about US GDP to debt ratio estimates for 2045. The world is getting tired of taking on US debt and earning only a 3% APR while the wealthy US bankers being bailed out by the TARP funds drive up the stock market indexes by 120% APR!

Well put

I think it is disinformation at its finest

You suggest several times that I didn't read the article .. I thought I made it clear that I didn't believe anything in it?

The points you try and 'correct' me on, conflicted with the earlier reports. That it was quoted from the NY Times rather than CNBC makes no real difference - both sources of nothing but lies and bias.

The detention for 4 days, that the guys were from the Japanese Ministry of Finance - those items disappeared from the article you quoted.

The two countries who would have the best intelligence inside Japan would be the US and China. China would have every reason to stop the Japanese from selling off their bonds secretly - and really wouldn't care if they were publicly exposed. China appears to have brokered a deal for the mortgages held by the Fed over 'toxic MBS's' - at least there is suspicion that was the case (Hilary Clintons - Eminent Domain trip to China - look it up).

The US of course would be falling over themselves to make the story go away - even if the globalists are planning to crush the dollar - it doesn't look like they are completely ready yet - and I doubt they would use this method - it seems they want the dollar to die an instant, not a drawn out death.

The idea that anyone could be fooled by $500 mil or $1 bil bonds is far fetched, so this makes the whole - they were faked thing far fetched. Nobody would accept them unless they were triple checked by the US.

You say, 'bonds aren't made in those denominations - how do you know? Because the article your quoting says that? Bonds could be printed in any denomination desired - who would know? Only those people who would deal with such bonds.

Once again you refer to your article as being the 'truth' to substantiate itself - they released the guys with no detention? Highly unlikely - holding fake bonds would suggest conspiracy to commit fraud - a very large fraud - they would have been held.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan

Originally posted by Amagnon

CNBC - I am so convinced!! What a laugh - we are supposed to believe they were fake because the media tells us so?

It is quoted from the New York Times.

Two old guys from Japans Ministry of Finance decide to make up 134 billion in fake money to .. what .. play monopoly?

No, it is pretty obvious they were trying to pawn them off on unsuspecting people, perhaps someone such as yourself if you had the money since you believe these to be real.

Of course 99.999999% of people have never seen a $500 mil bond, and would have no idea if they can be issued in those kinds of values - so tell a simple lie - and it all goes away.

Yes, no one ever has seen bearer bonds in those denominations, because they were never produced in such denominations. You apparently didn't read the article. Thats ok though, Hal Turner is actually blogging about this from prison.

The US has a huge vested interest to discredit this story and try and make it go away.

So what would you like them to do since they are obvious forgeries?

He said the two men had valid Japanese passports, but he would not elaborate further on their identities. “We don’t know where they are now,” he said. “We have had no contact with the two men. They have not asked us for our help.”

Apparently they just went 'poof'! How convenient - we don't know, you don't know - nobody knows - these are not the droids you are looking for - move along!

They were released, and did not spend anytime in jail bc it is not something you can do time there for. Again, you did not read the article.

If the bonds were fake, then these guys were conspiring to commit a multi-billion dollar fraud - but oh well - we just let them go.

Ill refer to my last comment

Anyone who believes this nonsense is dumber than a brick.

Interesting...

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Amagnon]

[edit on 30-6-2009 by Amagnon]

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by RolandBrichter
Hmmm...Treasury and USSS say they are fake...do you think they would EVER admit they are real???

Not to imply that I have any clue on what the absolute truth is in this case, it just smells funny...my "spidey senses" are tingling with this story....Just out of stubbornness (and this is a conspiracy site, after all)..I'm just not buying the "official" line...yet. That may change as the facts are brought to light, if they ever are. My gut is telling me to follow this and connect the dots down the road...I think the rabbit hole goes much deeper...

there is a designed reason why this was made public...info or disinfo. i am not interested in the bonds themselves. i am extremely interested in who blew the whistle. that would expose more of what is going on, by traveling down that "rabbit hole" you talk about

Someone would have to have tipped off the Italians if these were real and from Japan - the US and China would have the best intel in Japan - I would say the Chinese tipped off the Italians.

The US is unlikely to have done it so publicly - if they knew about it - they would have just stopped it covertly.

So China - I don't think they have anything to lose by doing so - the dollar is going to die whatever happens - and they may be pretty much stuck with their dollar debts - why let anyone else get a reprieve? Besides - I think China might have been offered some security to cover the debt it holds in the form of real estate.