Iraqi torture: What's wrong with our military?

Ok, by now, everyone has seen the Iraqi torture pics. My question is why is it so sexual? Naked bodies stacked in a pyramid. Iraqi prisoners forced to maturbate while people watch and film. Rape with a broom stick. What the hell? WHat is wrong with our servicemen? They had a plethora of torture methods that could have been used by they resort to sexual torture? And this is being distributed throughout the world. What's the problem with our people?

And don't tell me it was an isolated incident. This was systemic.


[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Colonel]

The thing is that the people we send over there are representatives for the rest of us in a sense. If they didn't hate us before, they sure as hell have a reason to unite all their differences and hate us as a group now.

This isnt the Military My Dad knew and Loved, All I can hope for is this was a group of Rouge troops. But yea the Sex thing is weird. Maybe they felt it worse on them because of how Muslims deal with Sex. (Not that I know exactly what that is, Just heard they are very strict about)

Yes, I can definitely say that the world hates us in general and the Arab world in particular. I TOLD YOU PEOPLE THIS WAR WAS A BAD MISTAKE! But, noooooooo. No one wants to listen to the Colonel. "Ohhh, Saddam is evil. We are liberating Iraqis. They will celebrate. Iraq has WMDs." Well, where are they!

YOu know what? These pics are the WMDs...becasue they will destroy massively any amount of goodwill we thought we ever had with the world.

Originally posted by Colonel
Yes, I can definitely say that the world hates us in general and the Arab world in particular. I TOLD YOU PEOPLE THIS WAR WAS A BAD MISTAKE! But, noooooooo. No one wants to listen to the Colonel.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, Colonel. I had the same crap in England when I spoke against the war. Then suddenly its 'I wish I'd listened to Pisky'.

Too fecking late now.

Wow, I was going to put in my $.02 here about how distasteful these actions by some Reservist Army pukes but I'm a little jilted now.

The conduct of our servicemen and women has absolutely nothing to do with the reasoning behind going there. Because they were idiots doesn't mean the reasoning behind going there was faulted. Differentiate between the two please.


I am shocked and appalled however at the actions of those MP's. I watched some Cuban, Haitian and Chinese prisoners in Cuba alongside Army MP's and nothing ever occurred like this. The individuals involved should face military court and spend 30-40 doing hard labor at Leavenworth.

But are we only seeing the bad side of this all!

What about the kids going back to school, The iraq people able to voice there anger in the streets,

This was not available before? I belleve Saddam was the biggest WMD,

But Going back to what you said, Yes Whats happened is awfull and a disgrace to are army, but there is a hell of alot of good militery doing a very good job over there,

With good comes bad, just as in every day life,..

They just have to make a major example of the ones that have done this,


(awaits beheading lol ..never entered the mudpit before lol)


[Edited on 5-5-2004 by asala]

I could understand the torture, and even killing of the enemy (although I do not condone it).

Being in a war must put you in a mental state that we can't imagine. If you had seen your friend blown to bits in front of you by one Iraqi, can you swear that you'd uphold the Geneva convention? I don't think I could.

However, the sexual abuse is just beyond my comprehension. I can't see how a healthy mind could do this to another human, even with the mental anguish that war must cause one.

It's sick. Another concern is that now when a British or American soldier is captured anywhere in the world, they are going to be just that little bit more afraid of how they will be treated.



[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Zzub]

I'm gonna have to disagree Asala. Imagine that YOU had to spend months upon end in 120 degree weather, getting shot at, wearing all that heavy gear, in constant paranoia over if "you're next." Then, you guard prisoners who are a part of your problems?

I think this problem is more widespread than is being said.

There is the fault with your argument. Combat arms troops are NOT allowed to guard detainees or prisoners of war anymore. That is reserved for the CD portion of the Army, exclusively. These reservist Army MP's never saw combat. They didn't witness the loss of friends in their unit. They were transported there, they failed to respect basic human rights, they were stupid about it, they will pay. It's really that simple. There is no justification for what they did. Although, they will tell you the excuse they weren't properly trained on the Geneva Accords. Sorry, but they violated basic human rights.

Well, I wasn't aware of that. There are much military men on ATS so I get corrected sometimes understandably. However, there is no excuse for this. You don't need the Geneva Records to tell you this was ugly. But, again, the sexual nature of the torture leads me to believe that there is something real wrong here adn this is not isolated.

Originally posted by Zzub
Being in a war must put you in a mental state that we can't imagine. If you had seen your friend blown to bits in front of you by one Iraqi, can you swear that you'd uphold the Geneva convention? I don't think I could.

In the heat of battle, with the rage in your head after seeing your friend killed many people would become virtual killing-machines, and I understand that perfectly.

But to sexually abuse a prisoner in cold blood is not acceptable. Killing him in battle, with the burning rage in your blood is understandable. Coldly torturing him afterwards for 'entertainment' is vile.

Fortunately the majority of the military are not like them. Hopefully their own people will make examples of them.

I'll completely agree with you on those points. The nature of the photos indicate that the torture being inflicted is not for the purpose of extracting intelligence. Therefore, one can surmise these Army pukes (I'm using the term to denote these particular individuals, not all Soldiers) did so out of wanton disrespect for human rights regardless of the knowledge of the accords or not. I hope they serve time in Leavenworth and get raped by some other convicted criminal serviceman.

My only question is this... a month or so ago, I remember seeing two american bodies hanging from a bridge, dismembered and burt to a crisp. I remeber seeing people including children cheering and hitting the dead and dismembered bodies with pipes and sticks. Every single day there are suicide bombings and attacks against our troops.

I'm sorry but boo #ing hoo that ackbar and ackmed got photographed butslamming eachother. At least they weren't dismembered and hung from a bridge.

Derek

Those bodies were civilian members of Blackwater Security Consulting (currently debating job offer from them). They were not military. They were serving a protection function for supplies and logistical functions.

How does that make it any different? They still took americans, killed them and hung them out for display. Similar to mogideshu (spelling)...

The prisoners were humiliated. But they are still alive.

Derek

Originally posted by DerekJR321
My only question is this... a month or so ago, I remember seeing two american bodies hanging from a bridge, dismembered and burt to a crisp. I remeber seeing people including children cheering and hitting the dead and dismembered bodies with pipes and sticks. Every single day there are suicide bombings and attacks against our troops.

I'm sorry but boo #ing hoo that ackbar and ackmed got photographed butslamming eachother. At least they weren't dismembered and hung from a bridge.

Derek

You can never lower yourself to the level of your enemies---or go even lower, particularly when you claim the high moral ground as propoganda for your military ventures.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Colonel]

Originally posted by .E3.
Those bodies were civilian members of Blackwater Security Consulting (currently debating job offer from them). They were not military. They were serving a protection function for supplies and logistical functions.

I think the point that he was making was that they were all Americans (regardless of who they worked for).

I agree with him. what they did to our people was infinitely worse than what our people did to them.

I am not saying that I support it, but I understand that they had a job to do (keep the prisoners under control). Do I think they crossed the line, yes. Do I think they deserve punishment, yes. Do I think that way too much has been made of this, yes.

Let me clarify my position...

I don't condone what our troops did, I just don't understand the outright RAGE against it.


Derek

If the justification is no longer the search for WMD that was in violation of UN resolution or that we went there to stop terrorists, but to free an oppressed people from a ruthless, maniacal leader, how can we resort to the same type of activity and proclaim ourselves to be righteous?