"Hitler's Stealth Fighter" Reborn - The Horten 2-29

Many don't realize how dangerously close Hitler came to winning the Second World War. German technology was years ahead of ours. After the fall of Berlin we detained many of their scientist's and brought them here to America to work for us. I believe that one or more of them helped develope the Atomic Bomb. There are those that believe that if Hitler had won the Second World War, and defeated Europe, his sights would be fixed on America next. There are also those that believe that if he had deployed his Me262's in 100% intercept roles with "experienced" pilots, it would have been a bad day for the allies. I believe that I saw a show on the History Channel about some long range bombers that Germany was developing that could reach America, from Western Europe, and back without refueling.

Anyone else out there recall similar theories?

all i can say is the sooner the better. enough holding all of this stuff off, the faster technology is introduced the more war there is. bring it all on out at once so we can get it over with! 2012

Just now got around to rebuilding it huh... please..

Tell me that doesn't look like our stealth bombers?

reply to post by skyeyes


The German scientists that were part of the allied team that developed the A Bomb had fled Germany years before. It took more than 6 months to develop the bomb.

German scientists did however contribute to the Moon shots, Concorde and much else

However it made no difference at all to the war how the Me 262 was deployed. Over 1200 were built but there were never more than 100 available on any given day because the engines had too short a life to be available in sufficient numbers. That was what I meant by my earlier comment.

To beleive that Germany could have won the war if they had concentrated on these types of aircrarft and weapons is just compounding Germany's own error. They lost the war, in part, because they concentrated on these weapons too much, at the expense of those they could actually use.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by waynos]

Originally posted by skyeyes
Many don't realize how dangerously close Hitler came to winning the Second World War. German technology was years ahead of ours. After the fall of Berlin we detained many of their scientist's and brought them here to America to work for us. I believe that one or more of them helped develope the Atomic Bomb. There are those that believe that if Hitler had won the Second World War, and defeated Europe, his sights would be fixed on America next. There are also those that believe that if he had deployed his Me262's in 100% intercept roles with "experienced" pilots, it would have been a bad day for the allies. I believe that I saw a show on the History Channel about some long range bombers that Germany was developing that could reach America, from Western Europe, and back without refueling.

I don't agree. Hitler was close to winning the war in 1940 had he successfully invaded the UK, which he did not. In reality, Germany lost the war when they declared war on the US. Maybe they lost the war when Adolf came to power.

German (Nazi) technology was only ahead in some niche areas and these proved too insignificant in the great scheme of things.

The key technological and doctrinal areas for the allies were the atomic bomb, computers and crytology, radar, strategic bombing, manufacturing and access to resources, and the like. All German advances in e.g. submarine warfare were successfully countered through the application of technology and tactical change.

If the allies did not have air superiority over Europe then I am sure they would have developed equal / better jet aircraft (after all they did have their own examples), but why expend such resources when the goal of aerial dominance had been achieved. The Nazi's just wasted time and resources by developing a multiplicity of interesting aircraft which were of little use or value. The ME262 was good, but suffered from poor engines. It had no appreciable effect on the war, nor did the V2, nor (ultimately) did the gas chamber.

Nazi rockets were probably the only area of advance. However V1 rockets were countered by (e.g. the proximity fuse and radar assisted AA batteries) and V2 were just a waste of resources. The British Grandslam and Tallboy bombs probably had more value than the V2's.

Regards

Well it is very well known that the Germans had the most advanced... well everything... during WWII. StG-44's and V-2s are enough to convince me of that!
But what I was taught (which may be biased) is that this stopped the Germans from actually winning
Operation Gunnerside
though it is greatly downplayed by the Allies as an insignificant event.

After his UFO sighting in 1947, Kenneth Arnold described a group of boomerang-shaped craft. Does anyone else see the resemblance between what Arnold described and the Horten Ho's design?

reply to post by JH80


Yeah I do

check out this link here!
Secret

It's an interesting concept.

reply to post by Haunebu


Adolph Hitler, was yet another puppet dictator, albeit, one that got out of the control of his masters.

Without hijacking the thread, know that he was put into power, just like every other politician, by men with money.

The Horten "flying wing" was at the tail end of WWII, but imagine if it had been put into operation.

And, no, I do not agree with you, that Hitler was a liberator.

He was a deeply troubled man, half-Jewish himself, his father, Alois Schicklgruber beat him almost every day, while his mother molested him.

Adolph Hitler, used the "war-machine" just like any politician, to fund more research.

This is how he got from cannons and tanks, to V-1 and V-2 rockets, and eventually to the Horten "flying wing", through the use of military funding.

For anyone interested in seeing it, the movie "The Philadelphia Experiment 2" shows the current stealth bomber.

It is a "what if" of sci-fi where WWII was won by the Axis instead of Allies.

I thought it was a rather cheesy movie, but interesting nonetheless.

I am happy the Nazi's did not win, just the same as I am happy that Smedley Butler turned down the fascist robber-barrons, or else we would have had Fascist Concentration Camps across America while the Nazi Concentration Camps were in full swing in Europe.


[edit on 27-6-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by warrenb





Hey warren,

Isnt it amazing that they were working on this is the late 30's and early 40's? Just think if they had 2 more weeks to complete the first stealth the could have won the war.

Scary thought. Did you by chance get to see the show on National Geographic? I missed it.

S&F

Sorry about the other comment, different subject all together oops.

reply to post by JH80


I have always believed that Arnold saw Horten aircraft being tested by the US, ever since I first saw his drawing which is actually even more like an earlier Horten design, the curved Parabola, than this one. It is certanly a far more plausible explanation than the alternative.

reply to post by wonderworld


I doubt that Stealth would have made a difference. By the time the bomber got off the ground and into production it would still have been too late. Plus the detection systems of the time were pretty primative.

Also by that time the UK would have had thier jet in the air and the US close behind

Remember the Hortons were looking for efficency to increase range not stealth.

[edit on 6/27/09 by FredT]

Awesome aircraft and I can't wait to see the program.

Germans have held high standards in education and had institutes of higher learning pre dating the existence of the US. Even today, some of the best automobiles and their innovations resulted from German aeronautical engineers transcending into that nations Auto industry after WWII.

My Dad is German and my Mom is American. I always get into this discussion with my Dad whenever he gets on his pro German Rants...in how superior everything German is vs American. It all boils down to design philosophy.

My Grandfather who fought in Russia (where they froze their assess off) basically summed it up in that the extreme Russian weather had much to do with their loss against the Russians especially as their equipment froze and supplies dwindled.

Looking at this Horten plane in all of it's sleek design and beauty it is impressive.
But what hurt the Germans is that even though all of their products were superior in design. This came at a price in reliability. People don't realize how much German machinery in all of it's complexity and sophistication would fail in the field. And due to this sophistication, it made it even more difficult to repair in the field rendering it pretty much worthless.

As a poster has pointed out with the ME262, the first jet fighter plane (which had BMW engines by the way). Were very unreliable and when they did work, they were difficult to fly due to fuel delivery/throttle problems. This made them very susceptible to flaming out. And jets don't glide very well or for very long for that matter.

In fact, several were shot down by our P-51's because though fast, they were piloted by less experienced pilots towards the end of the war and still couldn't outrun bullets in conjunction with a skilled pilot.

Speaking of the P-51, this plane won the war for the US.
Why you might ask ? Vs the P-47 Thunderbolt or P-38 Lightning ?
The airfoil/wing design made the P-51 much more efficient allowing it to escort Bombers into Germany whereas the P-47 could not.
This lead to the inevitable destruction of the German Industrial base.
In fact , when Hermann Goering head of the Luftwaffe first saw the first American Bombers escorted by P-51 over Berlin. He said ..." We have lost the war".

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Adolph Hitler, was yet another puppet dictator, albeit, one that got out of the control of his masters.

You don't know what you are talking about. Adolf was noone's puppet. You need to read a history book. Go to a library with books.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
The Horten "flying wing" was at the tail end of WWII, but imagine if it had been put into operation.

Ah, on topic.

The Horton would not have had any effect to the war. Not one jot. The payload was too little to be an effective bomber, for a start. Furthermore, in 1945 the Nazi industrial base was in a terrible state with critical shortages of resources such as fuel and metals and increasingly reliant on slave labour. Nazi Germany was in terminal decline and in disarray.

This flying wing was not especially unique. A nice looking aircraft, but just one of many interesting designs and prototypes which the fragmented and incoherent Nazi's produced as they lurched into the final stages of collapse.

Please, stop trying to re-write history. Adolf started a terrible world war. It was not started by bankers, aliens or Noddy. Over the war there was enormous technological advances as each side played the game of "catch up" and invention. You just need to look at the documented history of the Battle of the Atlantic to appreciate how things evolved.

Regards

[edit on 27/6/2009 by paraphi]

[edit on 27/6/2009 by paraphi]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hi,

Check these out. Very weird! I've done lots of research.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Adolph Hitler, was yet another puppet dictator, albeit, one that got out of the control of his masters.

You don't know what you are talking about. Adolf was noone's puppet. You need to read a history book. Go to a library with books.

I have read many more books on Adolph Hitler, than you, I guarantee that.

And, for your information, I was sitting in a public library when I posted that, and I am currently doing so again, posting this reply.

Doing what exactly? Researching even more in depth, on every topic I read about, and then post about on ATS, with knowledge I have backed up with thorough research.

I have ready many books on the topic of how puppet dictators are created.

Seeing as I have been approached by over one thousand people to be the President of the United States, and I turned them down flat, because I do not want to be a puppet, I know what I speak of here, the question remains, do you.

Back on topic, history being one of my favorite topics, the Horten "flying wing" was the original concept behind what is now the stealth bomber, as well as the the awesome and awe-inspiring F-117 Nighthawk.

The Allies gathered up their war trophies, and distributed them amongst the companies they could get to turn around and build them, after WWII.


[edit on 27-6-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


So, first you tell us how learned and methodical you are, then you make a claim which looks like it came straight from the loony bin, and then top it off with a complete untruth on a development path which is historically documented in great detail. Have you seen Dr Reimar Hortens journals where he complains bitterly that nobody in Britian or America is taking his idea seriously?

Hortens work had zero to do with the F-117 and was only linked to the B-2 as Northrop did some retropective cross referencing out of curiosity after the design was completed. If you were as hot on this subject as you want people to think you would know that

[edit on 27-6-2009 by waynos]

Looking at the picture they have made a fatal mistake.

Compare the size of the model with the size of the doors.
It's the whole boat in the basement thing all over again.

Also how have we managed to get to page 4 without anyone screaming any of the following words fake, photoshop, cgi?

reply to post by waynos


Wow, I do believe you took everything out of context, in reverse of what I had to say.

Are you trying to reverse engineer my words into lies?

You are not very successful, if that was your intent.

As I previously stated, it was :

Back on topic, history being one of my favorite topics, the Horten "flying wing" was the original concept behind what is now the stealth bomber, as well as the the awesome and awe-inspiring F-117 Nighthawk.

Original concept, meaning Horten designed it, then, the Allies took it, and changed the concept, in order for it to work.

You must not know how to read English very well, or at least ask an enlightened question, to clarify your thoughts, and here I thought you were rather intelligent.

I guess I am wrong about some things.

And it sure is not about the Horten "flying wing", that's for sure.

Just because I did not specify that Northrop Grumman is who took the "flying wing" and developed it, does not know I do not know I speak about.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]