This is the truth if you really want to know it but it might not set you free

Originally posted by earthman4
This group of people should draw from people with better writting skills. Only then can they RULE THE WORLD.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by earthman4]

Well my WRITTING skills might not be perfect but what does that have to do with anything?



[edit on 26-6-2009 by XXXN3O]

There are business associations in every town in every country. Yes, they are a rotary sort of affair.

These associations are there to ensure the prosperity of the other members. However if one owns a pizza shop where there's already one, the members protect the member shop and sanction the new one. Collectively, they will run the business out of the general area or agree to patronize the member pizza shop more e.g. order member pizza for staff meetings, parties and friday surprises.

It is a cartel, mafia to a degree but within legal bounds. What they decide to do as a collective is usually protectionist.

Another example is a building contractor. The contractor is a member of the association and utilizes, when possible, the goods and services of its members. If there's something the contractor needs that is not already in the association then they recruit or start such said business.

As for the alien, satan thing... I think you have to understand that the wealth does move up the ladder of society, yes, but not in the form of paper currency. The ultimate currency when it hits the top is GOLD. The major association of this world, call it illuminati or other, looks upon paper currency as we do monopoly money. There's lots of other rare substances on this planet but for some reason, gold is favored by the top rung. The Alien / satan thing might not be that far fetched after all.

It's a protectionist business union that you speak of. Associations become satellite members of a larger association and those part of something bigger. Yep you are damn right there. It is a pyramid. It's paper on the bottom and gold on the top. Think about gold more and you have another rabbit hole that will consume you for days.

why the devil? Why not Loki? or Sauron?

Originally posted by davedat2
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

KK, i think you are taking paranoia to new levels.....If the thread stinks then say so but IMHO what you inferred was way too low.

Hi Davedat2.

When someone professes to offer "The Truth" as in this thread title, I would expect it should be able to withstand harsh (your view) scrutiny.

I am here to ascertain the truth. Not engage in fantasy/role playing.

Has anyone noticed the OP has yet to respond as whether he joined this group or not? Perhaps I've missed that revelation.

IMO, this is NOT a true story. It is a fabricated hypothetical supposition.

DENY IGNORANTS. (SIC)

Regards.....KK


[edit on 26-6-2009 by kinda kurious]

Actually, as he's pointed out at least twice now, he said in the Original Post that he didn't join.

My boss at the time wanted out and I was the replacement but I refused after meeting with them.

reply to post by XXXN3O


I wouldn't hold out for any DNA stopping the Good-ol-Boy networking. Really, the conspiracy you are talking about Goes a bit beyond local cronyism.

My guess is, that cronyism is always there -- but there may have been a new push to organize it internationally.

I have no idea if there are different factions, or if various groups like the "Banker Class", NeoCons, Saudis, former KGB and other are in cahoots. I think the level of organization must move towards some central control after a period of instability, and then finally collapse and re-organize.

I look at what has happened on Wall Street as the culmination of a centralization of cronyism. Basically, what happens when the cronies are successful? More and more business is captured. Well, eventually, that means they run out of easy pickings -- as more of the money ends up in the hands of do-nothing cronies, eventually it becomes top-heavy.

On the service, a lot of Think Tanks and Libertarian groups preach a Meritocracy. If you find out who funds Cato and Heritage and where they end up working -- well, you can see that it's a Kleptocracy. Your loyalty to the business cult is more important than any talent you may have. Talent can be bought or stolen. The lawyers have more money than the inventors.

The fundamental battle that has waged throughout history -- if I can be so bold as to synopsize it this way; is a battle between ownership and labor. Labor, forgot that it was in a war and has been losing since Reagan. But labor shed a lot of blood to get Unions, and then after the prosperity,

The people who say; "You can't use diplomacy" are actually the people you cannot trust, and they believe diplomacy doesn't work because they don't trust anyone -- knowing that they are cowards and liars. Brave, honest people, think that other people have valor and can be trusted. Thus, the fall is inevitable when either reigns supreme. Of course, this kind of broad-brush statement, is going to anger a lot of authoritarians. They think having faith in people is naive. They only have faith in institutions or people of power or religions. A wise person, will be willing to have faith in others, but will know that you can't trust everyone. You have to continually look to trust people--cautiously.

The two groups struggling for mindshare of society as a whole; Romantics and Modernists. Loosely, you can say Conservatives and Liberals -- but a Romantic or Modernist tendency can show in either. A Romantic wants order and to assert rules and doesn't trust people, they also have a need for powerful leaders. People who live with insecurity, often take Romantic tack, and long for a king and worship heros.

Modernists, are more likely to have had some sense of security -- at least emotional nurturing. They have more empathy and trust people more, governments less. They look for new ways to solve problems, rather than always using tried and true ways.

>> Insecurity must have led to civilization, so you need the Romantics. But when they gain control, so does authoritarianism. Sometimes you need people to fall in line and all oars rowing at once.

Romantics, likely, don't see a need for Modernists.


So I don't think humanity can EVOLVE to be more accepting and trust people -- which makes cronyism harder. We have to create a society with more transparency and support (more security) and Modernists will take root. The great society of the 40's and the prosperity of the 70's became the selfish and hard working of the 80's. So when the Modernists start taking over, we get the peace movement of the 60's -- and the Conservative Romantics see that as anarchy. The Modernists seem to always grow complacent, and just let the authoritarians gain more and more control, because they just don't respond to threats.

>> The ultimate game changer for the future, is what is called "The Singularity." Technology impacts society so much, that we cannot fundamentally go back to our previous way of being. It isn't necessarily sentient computers. It's having an internet that gives us access to information on everything -- so that it's harder to be lied to if you aren't inundated by TV news too much to care. It's having video cameras record what politicians said ten years ago, so that you can replay a clip and show that they changed their tune when the other side had the power. But the dark side, we can see in North Korea -- or maybe even England. Cameras everywhere spying on citizens. The double-standard is, citizens don't get to access the tapes and hold the leaders accountable.

So the singularity could bring about an oppressive society where everyone is watched. If you imagine that we've all said something inflammatory at times and you criminalized certain things people say -- then you can arbitrarily enforce them. 200 years ago, we would never know about a politician like Blogoyovich from Chicago selling his senate seat -- because we couldn't record it, nor was there a system of communication that was more common than face-to-face meetings (or any alternative to face-to-face). You might consider that a win for Transparency -- a better society and a way to get cronies. On the other hand, why did the FBI bug him? If all the politicians are committing crimes, and you control who you decide to reveal, then only political opponents meet with justice.

This is the reason that a Democracy cannot spy on its people and survive. It's not about getting rid of dishonesty and crooks -- they are always there. It's that a crook can use internal spying, to arbitrarily extort, control, or mete out justice to someone who gets in their way. The Bush administration's massive internal spying was used to consolidate power and extort politicos into following their commands -- not to protect us from anything. I have no doubt on that score.

There were a thousand and one crony crooks making money in the Derivatives market on Wall Street. We got only one as a token; Bernie Maddoff. Is this justice, or a penalty for a crook who stole from the wrong people?

>> But if the Cronies are too successful, only Cronies have money -- and then the conspiracy breaks up as it can only feed on itself, there is no more that they can steal from Labor.

>> Anyway, that's my GENERAL view of what is going on. Yours is more specific and it would be good to know how their racket works and track it.

I've been following the thread but today I had a thought about it.

This goes completely against capitalism. Either capitalism is not going to give you the best service and products, or this whole system would fail due to being uncompetitive.

They have to have some way for all the seperate businesses to remain competitive, outside of this networking and rules.

The simple fact that this goes against competition is worth consideration. for me, my hopes are on the fact that capitalism is NOT the best system, but I think that in reality we are going to find that this is simply unworkable. You can't just "make" somebody the best because you say they are... That's like government bureacracy, totally useless paid by tax dollars, propped up, ineffecient. Seems the whole system would easily collapse in on itself, ESPECIALLY in todays time, when so many are looking for the easy road. Loyalty and fealty alone do not produce value.

reply to post by mattifikation


Thanks Matt, I missed that after multiple readings. My bad.

I humbly stand corrected on that point.

Apologies for that accusation. The rest stand.

Regards...KK

hi/

Truth to the Original post!

It's RIGHT under our NOSES!!!

look closer?
Much closer then you think!

people are UN-Aware that THESE people are infected with worshipping SATAN who calls himself MAMMON because he offers them RICHES beyond belief!
It is not a LIE but is a FACT!
People NEED to look close to what is happening, and WHY it is happening!
It is not just a COINCIDENCE, I mean, how can it be?
It's not 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 etc.......

ICXN
helen

Read my posts.....prophecies that were written in the Old Testament and in the New Testament and after that many more have been written....they are their to be read.
''"I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not; yet, if
THE ANTICHRIST
should come in his own name, him ye shall receive (John 5, 43) ...
for ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do..." (John 8, 44)..."So, be warned, my friend.
I have given you the signs of the antichrist.
Do not merely store them in your memory.
Pass them on to everyone without stint.
If you have a child after the flesh,
teach them to him forthwith.
And if you have become a godparent,
forewarn your godchild,
lest he should take the false christ for the True.
For 'the mystery of lawlessness doth
already work.'" (St. Cyril of Jerusalem...315-386)...
~~~THE ANTICHRIST~~~
Start with Jesus Christ words.... John 8:38-47

38/ I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father....
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Matthew 23:15, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!
You travel over land and sea to win a single convert,
and when he becomes one,
you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.”
And then....Matthew 23:33-34, “You snakes!
You brood of vipers!
How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers.
Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.”

Everything HAPPENS for a REASON!

ICXN
helen

alrighty then, picture this if you will.

The word perspective, meaning a point of view, is why you cannot figure it out. your on the right track on researching conspiracies, aka looking at different perspectives, but remember not to be biased. That is what tricks us humans into believing otherwise for no apparent reason. I like to refer to biased as propaganda, because it is a closed perspective.


let me go back to man.

Bloodlines are inevitable, look at your own family. But what happens when a bloodline is created to carry out a specific task. For example, a Neo-Nazi family raises a child to hate blacks or jews. that child very well may hate blacks and jews his or her whole life. im not saying radical change dosent happen to make people believe otherwise, but if it dosent, then that person is as i call, brain washed.

now, lets say when i was born, my parents were Christian, and brang me to church, and told me to believe in their god, i will end up being Christian, unless a radical change happens to make me believe otherwise. if you are religious and reading this, ask yourself, why am i this religion? is it because its the most popular religion in my area? or because thats what my parents were?

sorry, i was a little off track. so, if i was born under a cult bloodline and was told to do this specific thing because its really important to your family and its "the way", "ima #in do dat # up" *as they say*

now, what if we have a family, which allows everyone with significance and trust, to do their conspiracy and benifit from it, then we have a very, very very very long long pyramid scheme.

just a thought.

Originally posted by XXXN3O

Originally posted by Irishpaddy
I've been a Financial Adviser for over ten years in the UK and i cant start to tell you how sceptical i am about this thread.. I think you have maybe watched the Devils Advocate a few too many times!!!

Or maybe you have watched it that much that you would never believe this?

I am not saying ive met the devil

Its up to you.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by XXXN3O]

Well...perhaps I have

Lets take this "story" one step further. I will add a story of my own, that happened in 1976....when I met most evil man I ever met in my life.

I was selling artwork (Brass mobiles) in the East Village in NY City, sometimes under the awning of the San Marco cafe caddy corner from the Village Vanguard, and sometimes by the bank at the 4th street / Broadway subway station on Christopher St.

One night a limo pulled up with darkened windows. I watched the window go down silently. A finger motioned me towards the car. The man inside looked at my mobiles ( I would hold them up in my hand for passers by to see and buy ) and said:

Voice in Limo: (No accent, sounded cultured) "You're artwork is too good to sell on the street."

I said: How many would you like? (I did not let people waste my time)

Voice: How about I buy you some dinner and we can talk about it...

I thought: Free Food, sounds good, maybe I'll sell this big shot a big commission piece!

I said: Okay, sounds fine...

Voice in Limo: Meet me around the corner at (sorry forgot the name of the place)...

I said: fine

-------------------------

Dinner...

I'm sitting at dinner with an apparently VERY wealthy, distinguished gentleman about 55 years old...I was 25 at this time... I opened the menu and had to surpress a gasp when In saw the prices.. this was 1975... and the menu entries started at $22

I asked the fellow, (name will be omitted, you will understand why later) what he had in mind...

He said: I will make you an offer ..

I said, OK, Im listening..

Voice: Your work is extraordinary, I could sell thousands of them... I will advance you $10,000, provide a loft space for you to work in, and provide all the materials you need to get started. I will also guarantee a sold out one man show in Soho!! And favorable reviews in all the art rags...


I said: WOW

And we ate some dinner...

He said: How does that offer sound to you?

I said: Like a dream come true, but, who exactly ARE YOU to make such promises and why should I believe you at all? What do you do for a living?

He said: I own a holding company, that employs over 500 people. My specialty is retail sales and department stores. I own large voting blocks in most retail outlets. That is my niche in the game. He indicated that he controlled what was sold in retail stores nationwide.

I said: What is in this for you?

He indicated that I would be required to be his lover.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This man had so much money, that if he desired a 12 year old girl (or boy) it would all be "arranged" for him...

I excused myself and said "NO THANK YOU" and walked out.


I told this story to a lawyer while I was hanging a large piece in his foyer, and he stopped and looked at me, with wide eyes and asked me if I had any idea who this guy was that I had dinner with...

I said no I did not..

The lawyer told me: You just had dinner with the same man that originally backed: Andy Warhol!!!

---------------------------------

I swear the prior story is TRUE and accurate under penalty of perjury of the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia

Seataka



[edit on 27-6-2009 by seataka]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
reply to post by mattifikation

 

Thanks Matt, I missed that after multiple readings. My bad.

I humbly stand corrected on that point.

Apologies for that accusation. The rest stand.

Regards...KK

KK I am interested to know exactly what you think goes on in the world.

Ive already tried to answer your questions which obviously dont seem enough for you.

It seems to me that you believe the world is clear cut when it comes to conspiracies such as this, as far as beliefs its quite obvious that you disagree with my conclusions and I still do not see why other posts that I have made on ATS have anything to do with this?

I dont know if this is just something that you will agree to disagree with again, if you do thats fine but I would like to hear what your thoughts are on some of the subjects that have come up on this thread. It might help me understand where your coming from.

Cheers

reply to post by XXXN3O


Ok, since you asked. As far a what I think goes on in this world is a broad question, so I will focus on your topic regarding success in the business realm.

I liken business success to going to school. The more you invest your time and energy and devotion to learn, the more you get out of it. ( Not talking about simply making good grades and passing or graduating, that is the easy part.) While in school, there can be many distractions to deter you from studies. Relationships, partying, the need to generate spending money or pay tuition and clubs and fraternities. Keeping one’s nose to the grindstone can be beneficial to avoid these distractions.

(Although a formal education is of extreme benefit, I am more proud of my PhD from the school of hard knocks.)

As a “self-employed” business owner, I have developed an acute business acumen and achieved a modest modicum of success. For me, the freedom of “calling the shots” and not answering to a “boss” far outweighs any real personal financial gain. I am personally responsible for my own success or failure. (I started with nothing and still have most of it left. ) I achieved a sustainable business the old fashioned way, hard work, attention to detail, under promise and over deliver. This spawned my business a reputation that attracted loyal clients. It is able to withstand fierce competition from ferocious clients with larger staffs and deeper pockets.

(BTW, I work in an industry (TV/advertising/marketing) that receives much scrutiny and accusations from CT’ers on this form. The vast majority of claims I can vouch are untrue.)

Although I have belonged to numerous trade, social networking and professional organizations, I can say with certainty that I was never approached or am aware of the type of machiavellian group of which you speak.

My take is that there exists no “secret society” in order to make one’s self or business
prosper. (There might be groups that encourage members to support causes based on ethnicity, sexual persuasion or religious beliefs, but not Satan or Aliens.)

Bottom line.... you get out of life what you put in, there is no easy path or instant rite of passage from membership into some group.

Hope that gives you a peek into my myopic reasoning. I have been 100% sincere.
Sorry if I bored you to death but you asked and I obliged.

Regards...KK

[edit on 27-6-2009 by kinda kurious]

What happened was they asked you to sell your soul. Plain and simple.

Your soul is what gives you free will and choice. So, they were asking you to give that up and become a puppet for them, in exchange for material wealth.

We always called them the "good ole boy's club".

It's the reason the bible says "You will be hated because you are not of this world".

Things that are of this world are based on action and reaction, they have no free will. Because of this, it makes things controllable, which in turn means power. For example, a rocket. Introduce the right action, get the reaction you want and tada you have a controllable thing which gives you power. If it had a choice in the matter, then who knows where it ends up. Same thing with robots, all based on action and reaction, and it only does what it is told. Control = power.

The entire game of this world as far as humans go is to turn people into robots and to "kill/take their soul". Again, to take away the choice factor. By limiting peoples choices, it means the can more easily control things. This is usually done with duality. Left vs Right, Us vs them and so forth. At which point, they can introduce certain actions(9/11) in order to get the reactions from the people that is wanted(2 wars, and backing of new "security" measures). At which point, choice becomes merely an illusion. The people think they are making the choices, but they actually aren't.

But what you say doesn't set people free because it's not the whole truth. The truth is there is a reason they have to deceive people, and when you find out the reason for that, then that truth will set you free. It's because people are the authority, and it all comes down to a choice, and not just the illusion of choice.

I could go on and on. Most things are agreed upon on a subconscious level and most people haven't got the foggiest idea about it. I'll give an example.

In politics, there are 2 questions to every issue. The first question is kept silent, and if you happen to bring it up, you will be called names like "kook", and you will be labeled as crazy. And that question is - "Is this a job of the government". This is kept silent and automatically answered "yes" by people when they vote for either the left or the right. The 2nd question is - which direction should it be controlled in. They do not care what you answer to the 2nd question, it's that you answer the first question as "yes" that matters. Because once you have said yes to that question, it's much easier to just change the direction after. What is done is control is given based on the first question, and when people like Ron Paul ask that question and bring it up, they are ridiculed by both the left and the right, who also both agree the answer to the first question should always be "yes". But it is agreed to on a subconscious level and people do not realize it.

Much more to it as well, such as fractional banking which allows the transfer of wealth from poor to rich, which is then distributed back down to the certain people, who are then able to decide what people get what etc.

As well as an educational system that tells people what to accept as truth/fact to keep people from understand things deep enough to understand what is going on. Keeps people focusing on symbols and such, like the flag, rather than the principles and actions which really matter.

I do not believe in "Satan," in any supernatural sense, though I do believe in evil as a force individuals may align themselves with.

You disregarded aliens, believing that any such group would come here and make decisions as a unit.

But what if this planet was run by one group, a renegade group came in and subverted the support (administrators, workers, etc.) and, lacking in much "galactic" power, they took control of the functions of this planet, ousting the original group(s)?

They might have little in the tech department, and had to live amongst us. They might lie about history, and control the population through this network you describe.

Personally, I believe that this DID happen - given all the oddities we unearth from 10,000 - 20,000 years ago.

I avoid supernatural "causes" whenever possible, believing that if we want to understand the physical, it is to the physical we must look.

Thank you for your story. It confirms my deduction as to how this planet is run, even if your conclusions are very different from my own.

Its just how society works...always has and always will.

Thanks for writing the post but its common sense, atleast to me anyway.

Pretty much anyone who has a minimum knowledge of business knows this.

It is man, not aliens, not satan, man.

It is our nature.

~Cx

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Concept X]

Great thread. As it's 3:30am, I'll probably have to read through it again but I did feel compelled to comment on this:

When it comes to Aliens, I cannot see why an advanced race would not just wipe us all out and take the planet if resources were the reasons for it. Likewise if it was harvesting people etc.

There are two problems with this assumption. The first is, if an advanced race is after our natural resources, it could be 'cheaper' and easier for them to allow us to continue to retrieve them by controlling us rather than wiping us all out and having to harvest the resources themselves.

Secondly, if it's a human harvest, it assumes that whatever our bodies have that they want, they have them whether they're alive or dead. It's like a farmer - he doesn't just go to his farm and kill all the animals for their meat, he keeps some chickens for their eggs, he milks the cows etc.

I think the same is possible for the alien situation. I'm not saying this is what's happening, I just don't think you can rule it out. I know lots of people are of the 'if they're bad they would've just wiped us out' view, I just think it's worth keeping the above in mind.

interesting read but to honest we all know this goes on, with secret mens groups, one of the most prominant being the Mafia..

think RICO..

these business people are no different, and its even worse at higher levels of corporations.. frat clubs with board members on diff companies etc..

it's taking place from a couple of friends to organised consumer groups.. just the context for their oprations is the only thing I am concerned with.

reply to post by XXXN3O


Wouldn't it be nice if this group could have been eroded from the inside out? Had you joined and played along for a bit only to gain enough information for a little restructuring. Extremely risky I know but if I had the chance and my situation was different, I would consider the idea.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by jackflap]

Originally posted by Concept X
It is our nature.

No... No it's not. Take a look at indigenous people. They behave nothing like this "System" we're under.

This was forced on us by some. I am in the "aliens" camp, as stated above.