Why aren't Masons secretive like the Illuminati?

Books such as Duncan's Ritual, William Morgan's book and the Freemasonry Watch website reflect outdated wording among other things. They do not reflect any actual Masonic ritual, except maybe by wanna-be copy-cats.

My friend, you are mistaken. Duncan's Ritual is the standard, traditional Masonic ritual as practiced by most Masons in the U.S. The wording - though perhaps a bit dated in terms of style - in terms of actual content, is nearly word for word of my current ritual book for the Blue Lodge.

Nevertheless, my point is that anyone with a computer that wants to read the modern day Masonic ritual can do so with ease. Yes, there are some minor differences between various regions and states, but Duncan's Ritual will give any reader the content of the ritual in full detail.

It's an attempt by Masons to demonstrate that they are not being secret, which is nonsense. Masons cannot expose their own rituals to outsiders, because that would defeat the purpose of operating a Masonic lodge in the first place.

The ritual is public knowledge, as I indicated above. Outside the ritual, a Masonic Blue Lodge might have a business meeting to discuss such occult agendas as budgets, leaky roofs, scholarships, new member applications, and other such esoteric items.

Show me where the Oxford Dictionary defines "society" as a social system with an internal economy, a formal government and a military.

No, I like your broad, unique definition better. (Wink.)

They would be oscure and poorly organized because they opposed Freemasonry? The Boston Tea Party still exists, so I wouldn't be surprised

No, they would be obscure and poorly organized because I have never heard of a modern day Anti-Masonic Party. However, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if such a group exists. (I am sure you will find some bizarre web site somewhere that claims to be the revival of the Anti-Masonic Party to verify your claim.)

The Boston Tea Party still exists? Are you really a time traveler? Don't hold out on us.

It's also ironic how countries that allow Freemasonry are held by the balls by the Bank of England. It's also ironic that all of their economies have crashed during this current economic collapse.

Oh yeah, all those local Lodges have been conspiring to collapse the local economy. That's the big secret, right? You are too funny.

Last time I checked, the Bank of England had no jurisdiction over Russia, India, or China. Are you seriously trying to tell me that their economies have not felt the effects of this recession?

So - if I understand you correctly - if your country has even one Masonic Lodge, then you are under the thumb of the Bank of England? And the Bank of England and Masonic Lodges are related how again? Do tell - I am anxious to hear the correlation on this one.

Ad-hominem attack

Tell you what - When you can provide a reliable, credible source besides a conspiracy theorist like Jim Marrs, then I am more than willing to listen. If that's the best you can do, then you really need to reconsider the basis for your argument.

If religion were not discussed in the lodge, then how do so many Freemasons get to express their dislike for the Catholic Church?

And your evidence and proof that Masons discuss their dislike of the Catholic Church within the walls of a Masonic Lodge is what again? Oh, you don't have any proof of this claim either?

It is an unwritten rule that politics and religion are not to be discussed during Lodge meetings - this rule is to prevent infighting and disharmony among members. It's a matter of decorum and being polite, not the 11th commandment.

Yeah, but prominent Freemasons have espoused ideals such as revolution and anti-emperialism. The entire fraternal order wished not to be associated with such ideals then they would have distanced themselves from such people.

In some cases, revolution was absolutely necessary. The American Revolution - a revolt against the despotic, tyrannical British King at the time - was warranted. Sometimes revolution and anti-imperialism is a good thing, because it prevents despotism.

In general, however, Freemasons - as part of their ritual - are instructed to respect the political authority of the land, and to not be rebellious against political authority.

Nevertheless, your association is inconclusive. You make the same false association of "revolutionary ideals" and associate them with only men (sexism), a particular religious faith (Protestantism, for instance), or other similar affiliations.

Many revolutionaries were not Masons. Hitler wasn't. Malcolm X preached revolution. So did Ghandi. Just because someone just happens to be a Freemason, does not necessarily correlate that they are a revolutionary or espouse revolutionary ideals.

Thomas Edison stole his idea from someone else, as did Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Watson. Henry Ford has done lots of bad for "the country." I'm sure you've heard of the Ford Foundation.

These were just two simple examples of famous men that were Freemasons that benefited society by their work outside of Masonry. There are plenty more.

Saddam Hussein was a Freemason. They were all demonized by the Zionist establishment for not supporting Freemasonry and the Zionist movement. Holocaust denial must be one of the worst de-facto offenses that a person can commit in the "free" world. So much for democracy and freedom of speech.

Saddam wasn't a Freemason. Thank goodness.

Executives don't make logos ...

Um, yes they do. That's why they are called "advertising executives".

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
So they do accurately reflect the rituals in your lodge? Can everybody in ATS hold you to that?

Many on this site know me very well and know that I'm a collector of fraternal society ritual books. I have several hundred including various versions of the Masonic ritual. I can tell you from personal experience that Duncan's Ritual is the ritual used by the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Missouri. I've attended meetings with my P.H. Brethren. They even sell it at the Temple in St. Louis.

If you want accurate work and aren't willing to look at official books, check out Lester's "Look to the East" Doesn't get much better than that.

Masonic Ritual is no secret. Hasn't been since the early 1700's.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
So they do accurately reflect the rituals in your lodge? Can everybody in ATS hold you to that?

Your past behavior has proved that no matter what answer I give you will either A) Not believe me or B) Already have your mind made up.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
So they do accurately reflect the rituals in your lodge? Can everybody in ATS hold you to that?

Your past behavior has proved that no matter what answer I give you will either A) Not believe me or B) Already have your mind made up.

Cheap excuses

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Books such as Duncan's Ritual, William Morgan's book and the Freemasonry Watch website reflect outdated wording among other things. They do not reflect any actual Masonic ritual, except maybe by wanna-be copy-cats.

My friend, you are mistaken. Duncan's Ritual is the standard, traditional Masonic ritual as practiced by most Masons in the U.S. The wording - though perhaps a bit dated in terms of style - in terms of actual content, is nearly word for word of my current ritual book for the Blue Lodge.

Nevertheless, my point is that anyone with a computer that wants to read the modern day Masonic ritual can do so with ease. Yes, there are some minor differences between various regions and states, but Duncan's Ritual will give any reader the content of the ritual in full detail.

I've heard parts of rituals spoken by several Masons. They were different from one another, and different from what exists in any of those books.
This online copy of Duncan's Ritual contains the rituals of only the first 7 degrees of the York Rite. Compare it to this online copy of William Morgan's book and Freemasonry Watch.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

It's an attempt by Masons to demonstrate that they are not being secret, which is nonsense. Masons cannot expose their own rituals to outsiders, because that would defeat the purpose of operating a Masonic lodge in the first place.

The ritual is public knowledge, as I indicated above. Outside the ritual, a Masonic Blue Lodge might have a business meeting to discuss such occult agendas as budgets, leaky roofs, scholarships, new member applications, and other such esoteric items.

Other such esoteric items as kissing the butt of the "goat" ?

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Show me where the Oxford Dictionary defines "society" as a social system with an internal economy, a formal government and a military.

No, I like your broad, unique definition better. (Wink.)

Poker face

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

They would be obscure and poorly organized because they opposed Freemasonry? The Boston Tea Party still exists, so I wouldn't be surprised

No, they would be obscure and poorly organized because I have never heard of a modern day Anti-Masonic Party. However, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if such a group exists. (I am sure you will find some bizarre web site somewhere that claims to be the revival of the Anti-Masonic Party to verify your claim.)

The Boston Tea Party still exists? Are you really a time traveler? Don't hold out on us.

Deny ignorance

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

It's also ironic how countries that allow Freemasonry are held by the balls by the Bank of England. It's also ironic that all of their economies have crashed during this current economic collapse.

Oh yeah, all those local Lodges have been conspiring to collapse the local economy. That's the big secret, right? You are too funny.

Last time I checked, the Bank of England had no jurisdiction over Russia, India, or China. Are you seriously trying to tell me that their economies have not felt the effects of this recession?

First, their banks are under the jurisdiction of the Bank of England. Second, they experienced windfalls during 2007 which padded their losses.

So - if I understand you correctly - if your country has even one Masonic Lodge, then you are under the thumb of the Bank of England? And the Bank of England and Masonic Lodges are related how again? Do tell - I am anxious to hear the correlation on this one.
Don't flatter yourself. Freemasons don't get to tell the Bank of England what to do.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Ad-hominem attack

Tell you what - When you can provide a reliable, credible source besides a conspiracy theorist like Jim Marrs, then I am more than willing to listen. If that's the best you can do, then you really need to reconsider the basis for your argument.

Still an ad-hominem attack

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

If religion were not discussed in the lodge, then how do so many Freemasons get to express their dislike for the Catholic Church?

And your evidence and proof that Masons discuss their dislike of the Catholic Church within the walls of a Masonic Lodge is what again? Oh, you don't have any proof of this claim either?

It is an unwritten rule that politics and religion are not to be discussed during Lodge meetings - this rule is to prevent infighting and disharmony among members. It's a matter of decorum and being polite, not the 11th commandment.

So then they use the lodge to round up the troops, and then leave the lodge to implement their schemes elsewhere

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Yeah, but prominent Freemasons have espoused ideals such as revolution and anti-emperialism. The entire fraternal order wished not to be associated with such ideals then they would have distanced themselves from such people.

In some cases, revolution was absolutely necessary. The American Revolution - a revolt against the despotic, tyrannical British King at the time - was warranted. Sometimes revolution and anti-imperialism is a good thing, because it prevents despotism.

The "despotic, tyrannical British King at the time" was George III who was being hit up for money by the Bank of England. England relinquished political and military control over a large portion its empire so that it could take financial control.

Australia was founded by Freemasons as well.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
In general, however, Freemasons - as part of their ritual - are instructed to respect the political authority of the land, and to not be rebellious against political authority.

Then Freemasons are apt to disregard their instructions

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Nevertheless, your association is inconclusive. You make the same false association of "revolutionary ideals" and associate them with only men (sexism), a particular religious faith (Protestantism, for instance), or other similar affiliations.

When did I ever say that?

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Many revolutionaries were not Masons. Hitler wasn't. Malcolm X preached revolution. So did Ghandi. Just because someone just happens to be a Freemason, does not necessarily correlate that they are a revolutionary or espouse revolutionary ideals.

What did Hitler revolutionize?

Malcolm X was taught by the Nation of Islam, which is a Freemason organization.

Gandhi described being raised to the third degree in his London Diary. He was also a racist, a philander and cheated on his wife with his niece.

Actually yes, all Masons presumably are in philosophical agreement with one another.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Thomas Edison stole his idea from someone else, as did Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Watson. Henry Ford has done lots of bad for "the country." I'm sure you've heard of the Ford Foundation.

These were just two simple examples of famous men that were Freemasons that benefited society by their work outside of Masonry. There are plenty more.

They hurt society. That's the part you conveniently skipped over.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Saddam Hussein was a Freemason. They were all demonized by the Zionist establishment for not supporting Freemasonry and the Zionist movement. Holocaust denial must be one of the worst de-facto offenses that a person can commit in the "free" world. So much for democracy and freedom of speech.

Saddam wasn't a Freemason. Thank goodness.

Saddam Hussein, the evil dictator who wanted to trade oil in euros. That prick ...

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Executives don't make logos ...

Um, yes they do. That's why they are called "advertising executives".

Advertising executives don't make logos, unless it's a one-man team.

[edit on 22-7-2009 by vcwxvwligen]

I've heard parts of rituals spoken by several Masons. They were different from one another, and different from what exists in any of those books. This online copy of Duncan's Ritual contains the rituals of only the first 7 degrees of the York Rite. Compare it to this online copy of William Morgan's book and Freemasonry Watch.

Okay, first and foremost, I never mentioned Morgan's book, nor "Freemasonry Watch".

Let's stick with Duncan's Masonic Ritual. The first 3 degrees of the "York Rite" as you state in your post above, are commonly referred to as the 3 main Blue Lodge Degrees - Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, and Master Mason. These are the 3 main degrees that every single Mason goes through. Once you reach Master Mason, this is the highest degree in Masonry. All further degrees are considered "further light in Masonry", meaning simply that these degrees shed further knowledge and insight into Masonry.

The first 3 degrees in Duncan's Ritual are the same 3 degrees that you would need to go through if you wanted to become a York Rite, Scottish Rite, or a Shriner. All Masons go through these 3 main degrees.

The Duncan ritual is nearly identical to the ritual used in my Lodge, and will not differ much from state to state - although there may be very slight differences depending on the region. The South, for instance, does have some differences than the North, for instance. But, all in all, the Duncan Ritual contains the basic, fundamental initial 3 ritual content - now open to the public for all to read and see.

Other such esoteric items as kissing the butt of the "goat" ?

There are no goats being "kissed" in Freemasonry. Read the ritual yourself. You come up with some of the funniest conspiracies, let me tell you.

Deny ignorance

Okay, tough guy. Go ahead and prove that there is a modern day Boston Tea Party and a modern day Anti-Masonic Party. You have me so convinced now. I am all ears.

First, their banks are under the jurisdiction of the Bank of England. Second, they experienced windfalls during 2007 which padded their losses.

Since when are the banks in China and Russia under the jurisdiction of the Bank of England? I would really like to see some proof or evidence of this claim, as outrageous as it sounds.

Don't flatter yourself. Freemasons don't get to tell the Bank of England what to do.

You're right. Only the Rothschild's get to dictate to the Bank of England. And we all know how anti-Masonic they are, right? What other conspiracies do you have up your sleeve? Do tell.

Still an ad-hominem attack

Again, I will repeat: If you want to provide me with credible evidence from a reputable source, I am all ears. Jim Marrs does not qualify, sir.

So then they use the lodge to round up the troops, and then leave the lodge to implement their schemes elsewhere

Creative, but no. Most Lodge meetings are held in the evening, and some degrees can take north of 3 hours or more - Well past my bedtime. Unless a Mason wants to pull an all-nighter (most of us work in the morning, by the way), then there will be no "implementing of schemes elsewhere" going on. It's just not possible. Most Masons don't even see each other outside of the Lodge, except on a rare occasion out and about town.

The "despotic, tyrannical British King at the time" was George III who was being hit up for money by the Bank of England.

Wait a second - You just said that the Bank of England was NOT run by Freemasons, right? Which is it? Was King George being manipulated by Freemasons or bankers? Hmmmmm.... You really can't have it both ways now, can you?

The truth of the matter is that Masons have always stood up for the same ideals that our Founding Fathers stood for - freedom, liberty, the pursuit of knowledge, etc.

Australia was founded by Freemasons as well.

Goodness forbid that a group of Freemasons actually found a great country such as Australia. For shame!

Malcolm X was taught by the Nation of Islam, which is a Freemason organization. Gandhi described being raised to the third degree in his London Diary. He was also a racist, a philander and cheated on his wife with his niece.

But I thought that the Masons were mostly Jewish Zionist bankers that controlled the world, but now you are saying that Masons are closely aligned with the Nation of Islam? Which is it?

Let me help you: The truth is that the Nation of Islam has no formal association with Freemasonry whatsoever. Again, proof to justify your accusations would be nice.

And, please, do provide a reference for the Ghandi accusations. An academic reference would be nice, or a simple footnote. Ghandi - while I am sure had many human faults as we all do - was also a great leader and liberator of his people - surely you must see that this is an admirable quality, no?

They hurt society. That's the part you conveniently skipped over.

Who hurt society? Ford? Edison? Walter Chrysler? George Washington?

Saddam Hussein, the evil dictator who wanted to trade oil in euros. That prick ...

Oh, I think Mr. Hussein was guilty of more than that, my good friend. Just ask any Iraqi that lost a loved one under Saddam's tyrannical rule of violent murder and mayhem.

Am I reading this right? Are you defending Saddam? Wow. Okay, bud. You need a beer, pal.

Advertising executives don't make logos, unless it's a one-man team.

No, see all the Masons get together and vote on the logos for all the Fortune 500 companies. We want to make sure that these companies get our message out about taking over the world. I thought you knew all this. Where have you been?

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

I've heard parts of rituals spoken by several Masons. They were different from one another, and different from what exists in any of those books. This online copy of Duncan's Ritual contains the rituals of only the first 7 degrees of the York Rite. Compare it to this online copy of William Morgan's book and Freemasonry Watch.

Okay, first and foremost, I never mentioned Morgan's book, nor "Freemasonry Watch".

Let's stick with Duncan's Masonic Ritual. The first 3 degrees of the "York Rite" as you state in your post above, are commonly referred to as the 3 main Blue Lodge Degrees - Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, and Master Mason. These are the 3 main degrees that every single Mason goes through. Once you reach Master Mason, this is the highest degree in Masonry. All further degrees are considered "further light in Masonry", meaning simply that these degrees shed further knowledge and insight into Masonry.

The first 3 degrees in Duncan's Ritual are the same 3 degrees that you would need to go through if you wanted to become a York Rite, Scottish Rite, or a Shriner. All Masons go through these 3 main degrees.

The Duncan ritual is nearly identical to the ritual used in my Lodge, and will not differ much from state to state - although there may be very slight differences depending on the region. The South, for instance, does have some differences than the North, for instance. But, all in all, the Duncan Ritual contains the basic, fundamental initial 3 ritual content - now open to the public for all to read and see.

You're right, I was the one who mentioned Morgan's book and Freemasonry watch. They both present Masonic rituals which do not square up with what is written in Duncan's.

Here's another thread on ATS about Masonic ritual:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
It contains this video:

Google Video Link

I know very well about the Blue Lodge and the York Rite, but you are wrong in saying that the Blue Lodge degrees are part of the York Rite.

You say that there are "some differences," and you do not explain these differences, yet you use phrases like "open to the public," which is a boldfaced lie.

Other such esoteric items as kissing the butt of the "goat" ?

There are no goats being "kissed" in Freemasonry. Read the ritual yourself. You come up with some of the funniest conspiracies, let me tell you.

Telling me to "read the ritual myself" is begging the question.

Deny ignorance

Okay, tough guy. Go ahead and prove that there is a modern day Boston Tea Party and a modern day Anti-Masonic Party. You have me so convinced now. I am all ears.

Go and look it up yourself.

First, their banks are under the jurisdiction of the Bank of England. Second, they experienced windfalls during 2007 which padded their losses.

Since when are the banks in China and Russia under the jurisdiction of the Bank of England? I would really like to see some proof or evidence of this claim, as outrageous as it sounds.

Since they ripped off the iron curtain. You obviously haven't heard news stories of China proposing the yuan to replace the dollar as the currency for international transactions.

Don't flatter yourself. Freemasons don't get to tell the Bank of England what to do.

You're right. Only the Rothschild's get to dictate to the Bank of England. And we all know how anti-Masonic they are, right? What other conspiracies do you have up your sleeve? Do tell.

Do you believe that the Rothschilds are anti-Masonic?

Still an ad-hominem attack

Again, I will repeat: If you want to provide me with credible evidence from a reputable source, I am all ears. Jim Marrs does not qualify, sir.

What's wrong with Jim Marrs? Why would he lie about the Freemasons?

So then they use the lodge to round up the troops, and then leave the lodge to implement their schemes elsewhere

Creative, but no. Most Lodge meetings are held in the evening, and some degrees can take north of 3 hours or more - Well past my bedtime. Unless a Mason wants to pull an all-nighter (most of us work in the morning, by the way), then there will be no "implementing of schemes elsewhere" going on. It's just not possible. Most Masons don't even see each other outside of the Lodge, except on a rare occasion out and about town.

Co-workers usually don't see each other after-hours, either.

The "despotic, tyrannical British King at the time" was George III who was being hit up for money by the Bank of England.

Wait a second - You just said that the Bank of England was NOT run by Freemasons, right? Which is it? Was King George being manipulated by Freemasons or bankers? Hmmmmm.... You really can't have it both ways now, can you?

The truth of the matter is that Masons have always stood up for the same ideals that our Founding Fathers stood for - freedom, liberty, the pursuit of knowledge, etc.

When did I say that King George was controlled by the Freemasons?

Australia was founded by Freemasons as well.

Goodness forbid that a group of Freemasons actually found a great country such as Australia. For shame!

Waste of time to read

Malcolm X was taught by the Nation of Islam, which is a Freemason organization. Gandhi described being raised to the third degree in his London Diary. He was also a racist, a philander and cheated on his wife with his niece.

But I thought that the Masons were mostly Jewish Zionist bankers that controlled the world, but now you are saying that Masons are closely aligned with the Nation of Islam? Which is it?

Let me help you: The truth is that the Nation of Islam has no formal association with Freemasonry whatsoever. Again, proof to justify your accusations would be nice.

And, please, do provide a reference for the Ghandi accusations. An academic reference would be nice, or a simple footnote. Ghandi - while I am sure had many human faults as we all do - was also a great leader and liberator of his people - surely you must see that this is an admirable quality, no?

You're misquoting me. Like I said, the proof is out there. Denying ignorance means not assuming that proof does not exist.

And, to clear up one point that got taken out of context, the Freemasons control the Nation of Islam.

They hurt society. That's the part you conveniently skipped over.

Who hurt society? Ford? Edison? Walter Chrysler? George Washington?

You've never heard of the Ford Foundation

Saddam Hussein, the evil dictator who wanted to trade oil in euros. That prick ...

Oh, I think Mr. Hussein was guilty of more than that, my good friend. Just ask any Iraqi that lost a loved one under Saddam's tyrannical rule of violent murder and mayhem.

Am I reading this right? Are you defending Saddam? Wow. Okay, bud. You need a beer, pal.

Again, misquoting me. Your exaggerations and misquotes are dishonest, and do nothing to help win sympathy for the Freemasons.

Advertising executives don't make logos, unless it's a one-man team.

No, see all the Masons get together and vote on the logos for all the Fortune 500 companies. We want to make sure that these companies get our message out about taking over the world. I thought you knew all this. Where have you been?

Your sarcasm is not conducive to civil discussion. Responses like these make the Freemasons look like bullies, in addition to liars.

I know very well about the Blue Lodge and the York Rite, but you are wrong in saying that the Blue Lodge degrees are part of the York Rite. You say that there are "some differences," and you do not explain these differences, yet you use phrases like "open to the public," which is a boldfaced lie.

Goodness. Okay, first let's get our facts straight. The Blue Lodge degrees are not a part of the York Rite. First, because you can go through the first 3 Blue Lodge degrees, and skip the York Rite altogether and go through the Scottish Rite degrees.

Secondly, there are regional differences in terms of Masonic ritual. Each state governs the ritual in their particular state. Nevertheless, if you were to take the Duncan's Ritual book - which is available to the public - it matches word for word with my ritual book for my particular state. The only differences being minor grammatical differences - Such as using the word "Thee" versus "You", for instance.

Telling me to "read the ritual myself" is begging the question.

Dude, no one kisses a goat in Masonic ritual. Sheesh. First, I can't even imagine how any of our Lodges in major metropolitan cities could even find a goat, let alone bring one into a Lodge room. Whoever told you this is pulling your leg.

Go and look it up yourself.

No. You made the claim, not me. It's up to you to prove it, not me. You state that there is a modern day Boston Tea Party and Anti-Masonic Party, so go ahead and provide evidence to back your claim. It's not up to me to prove it - You made the claim, not me.

Since they ripped off the iron curtain. You obviously haven't heard news stories of China proposing the yuan to replace the dollar as the currency for international transactions.

Yes, I have heard that China wants to replace the dollar with the yuan as the currency for international transactions. How does that prove your claim that the Bank of England is in charge of the banking system in China? I would think the Brits would much prefer the pound, Euro, or dollar over the yuan, not the other way around. You haven't proven your claim.

Do you believe that the Rothschilds are anti-Masonic?

I believe that the Rothschild's are international bankers. Their relationship to Masonry is speculative unless you can provide me with factual evidence to the contrary.

What's wrong with Jim Marrs? Why would he lie about the Freemasons?

He's a conspiracy author trying to sell his books. Of course, he would lie about the Freemasons to sell more books - It's a great conspiracy theory.

Co-workers usually don't see each other after-hours, either.

So...how does that prove your bogus claim that Masons are "rounding up the troops to implement their schemes"?

Waste of time to read

Yeah, you're tiring me with your lies and bogus accusations. It's getting really old, really fast. By the way, you're the one that brought up Australia, not me.

And, to clear up one point that got taken out of context, the Freemasons control the Nation of Islam.

Prove it. For starters, it sure ain't happening at the local Lodge level. I don't know a single Mason that has ever been involved with the Nation of Islam, let alone trying to control it.

You've never heard of the Ford Foundation

The Ford Foundation is not a Masonic institution. Sorry.

Again, misquoting me. Your exaggerations and misquotes are dishonest, and do nothing to help win sympathy for the Freemasons.

No, you made the comment about Saddam wanting to trade oil in Euros, not me. If you supported Saddam, then that speaks volumes for your point of view.

Your sarcasm is not conducive to civil discussion. Responses like these make the Freemasons look like bullies, in addition to liars.

Awww. Poor chap. Lighten up. Have a beer. Goodness knows, you need one. I've destroyed every false allegation you have leveled so far.


[edit on 8-8-2009 by CookieMonster09]

Originally posted by CookieMonster09


Goodness. Okay, first let's get our facts straight. The Blue Lodge degrees are not a part of the York Rite.

Actually, they are. The York Rite in the United States is divided up into 4 bodies: Lodge of Master Masons, Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, Council of Cryptic Masons, and Commandery of Knights Templar. In English-speaking countries, the York Rite versions of the Blue Lodge degrees are almost universally given.

The major exception is District 18 in Louisiana, where the Blue Lodges are Scottish Rite. But these, nevertheless, are still under jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of the state.

In the USA, the Scottish Rite recognizes the first three degrees of the York Rite, and therefore begins its own system with the Fourth Degree.

For starters, it sure ain't happening at the local Lodge level. I don't know a single Mason that has ever been involved with the Nation of Islam, let alone trying to control it.

Absolutely. The Nation of Islam, if anything, would be anti-Masonic.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Secondly, there are regional differences in terms of Masonic ritual. Each state governs the ritual in their particular state. Nevertheless, if you were to take the Duncan's Ritual book - which is available to the public - it matches word for word with my ritual book for my particular state. The only differences being minor grammatical differences - Such as using the word "Thee" versus "You", for instance.

So then tell me where in Duncan's Ritual do you get to kiss the butt of the goat?

Dude, no one kisses a goat in Masonic ritual. Sheesh. First, I can't even imagine how any of our Lodges in major metropolitan cities could even find a goat, let alone bring one into a Lodge room. Whoever told you this is pulling your leg.

It's not a real "goat." There you Masons go lying again ...

No. You made the claim, not me. It's up to you to prove it, not me. You state that there is a modern day Boston Tea Party and Anti-Masonic Party, so go ahead and provide evidence to back your claim. It's not up to me to prove it - You made the claim, not me.

A classic example of ignorance.

Yes, I have heard that China wants to replace the dollar with the yuan as the currency for international transactions. How does that prove your claim that the Bank of England is in charge of the banking system in China? I would think the Brits would much prefer the pound, Euro, or dollar over the yuan, not the other way around. You haven't proven your claim.

You also remember that China was communist until just a few years ago, and that China is a permanent member of the UN Security Council. You don't get those privileges by vociferously opposing the "capitalist pigs."

Do you believe that the Rothschilds are anti-Masonic?

I believe that the Rothschild's are international bankers. Their relationship to Masonry is speculative unless you can provide me with factual evidence to the contrary.

"Speculative" .... that's funny

What's wrong with Jim Marrs? Why would he lie about the Freemasons?

He's a conspiracy author trying to sell his books. Of course, he would lie about the Freemasons to sell more books - It's a great conspiracy theory.

What does being a "conspiracy author" have to do with the veracity of his claims?
So nothing he says could ever be true?
How do you think he could have come to the same conclusion as other "conspiracy authors"?

Co-workers usually don't see each other after-hours, either.

So...how does that prove your bogus claim that Masons are "rounding up the troops to implement their schemes"?

You may work a 9-5 blue collar job, but not everyone does. Most people who work a union 9-5 job have the weekends free, anyway, and lots of people make due without much sleep.

Yeah, you're tiring me with your lies and bogus accusations. It's getting really old, really fast. By the way, you're the one that brought up Australia, not me.

Your denials are boring as well.

And, to clear up one point that got taken out of context, the Freemasons control the Nation of Islam.

Prove it. For starters, it sure ain't happening at the local Lodge level. I don't know a single Mason that has ever been involved with the Nation of Islam, let alone trying to control it.

You've never met members of the Nation of Islam with names like "Hiram"

The Ford Foundation is not a Masonic institution. Sorry.

Misquote

No, you made the comment about Saddam wanting to trade oil in Euros, not me. If you supported Saddam, then that speaks volumes for your point of view.

Misquoting me once again

Your sarcasm is not conducive to civil discussion. Responses like these make the Freemasons look like bullies, in addition to liars.

Awww. Poor chap. Lighten up. Have a beer. Goodness knows, you need one. I've destroyed every false allegation you have leveled so far.

Self-aggrandizement and destructive tendencies ... interesting

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
For starters, it sure ain't happening at the local Lodge level. I don't know a single Mason that has ever been involved with the Nation of Islam, let alone trying to control it.

Absolutely. The Nation of Islam, if anything, would be anti-Masonic.

Noble Drew Ali and Elijah Muhammad were Freemasons. I'm not sure whether Wallace Fard was a Freemason, but he took instruction from Noble Drew Ali.

If you actually took a look at how the Nation of Islam operates, you'd see many parallels to Freemasonry.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by CookieMonster09


Goodness. Okay, first let's get our facts straight. The Blue Lodge degrees are not a part of the York Rite.

Actually, they are. The York Rite in the United States is divided up into 4 bodies: Lodge of Master Masons, Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, Council of Cryptic Masons, and Commandery of Knights Templar. In English-speaking countries, the York Rite versions of the Blue Lodge degrees are almost universally given.

The major exception is District 18 in Louisiana, where the Blue Lodges are Scottish Rite. But these, nevertheless, are still under jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of the state.

In the USA, the Scottish Rite recognizes the first three degrees of the York Rite, and therefore begins its own system with the Fourth Degree.

According to yorkrite.com... the Chapters, Council and Knights Templar are considered an appendant body with the same "number" as the Craft Lodge in the same location.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

See I've been through several initiations and in various appendant bodies, and I've never kissed a goat's ass.

I do love how you are placing words in cookie monster's mouth.

Hiram? Sure, it's a name that is used in the Middle East. Not everyone with a certain name is connected with Freemasonry.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

But it's not always like that. I belong to Boise Chapter #3 (which #3 in Craft is up in Placerville/Horshoebend). The number they get usually coincides in the chronological order of their founding.