Free College Education?

What do people here think of a free college education? Do you think it would be a step in the right direction for the American populace?

What about mandatory schooling? Should education be necessary, and until what age? Under what circumstances?

I'm curious to know what people think. I'll post my own opinions once this gets a few hits.

Free education? In a word... NO. Public education as it stands now is a problem.

Why add to an already boiling pot? Last time I checked, only about 23% of people went to college in the first place (you may have to check the stat.). Why would we pay for people to go?

As for further manditory schooling, I'd recommend less of it than we already have for a few reasons.

1) A good portion of people either do not care and will be work horses their whole life, and some are just plain stupid.

2) It would continue to foster the "Go get it if you have the smarts and drive" additude that has kept this country innovative and strong for a long time. This is an individual wins all sort of country.

3) The public school system is a joke, and one that does not really gear kids up for much. I say cut the amount of schooling, and add "tracks" like the Japanese, so kids can learn trades. I know they already have that, but it has become (from my knowledge) a respite for deliquents or idiots rather than people who want to know about skills, like plumbing, construction, auto repair. I'd advise some classes in management as well.

We live in a go get it or shut up and wallow in your poverty country. Why not live up to it?

KrazyJethro, My thoughts exactly.

The trade programs the schools offer now are just last ditch efforts to keep the delinquents enrolled so they districts can still get the tax and federal money on them.

great thread.

The way I see it, part of the problem in the US is that everyone here thinks they are entitled to things like a college education. While I agree that everyone should be able to go to college if they wish, I do not think that everyone should be given a free college education. Loans and what not are fine, but i'll be damned if i'm gunna see thousands more taken off my income so some idiot can go get a 2.3 GPA and dagree. Sorry - I'd rather give that money to MY kids - that could be the difference between them going to the college of their choice or a state school. It could get my kids a better computer, down payment on a car ect ect ect.

As for mandatory schooling - yes, though 9th grade. But after that you should have to keep a minumum attendance record as well as classroom behavior. Basically - I don't think that students who are going to waste the time of teachers and the money of taxpayers should be allowed to keep doing just that. If they want to continue their education after that, then they should have to do it at another institution under their parents expense.

All I will say on this subject is that a college education should be dependant on ability only. NOT whether or not the prospective student can pay.

If someone proves that they are of the required ability then they should automatically receive free college education. If they fail the exams, then they don't get to go - simple as that. And they shouldn't be able to buy their way in either.

I got into Grammar school and college purely based on my abilities. If I had had to pay, I wouldn't have been able to attend. Alongside free health care, I am happy to pay a little more tax to ensure free college education.

I will never play the hypocrite and deny others the chance I received. I'll leave that to Tony Blair (but its coming back to bite you on the arse now, isn't it Tone )

Originally posted by KrazyJethro


I say cut the amount of schooling, and add "tracks" like the Japanese, so kids can learn trades. I know they already have that, but it has become (from my knowledge) a respite for deliquents or idiots rather than people who want to know about skills, like plumbing, construction, auto repair. I'd advise some classes in management as well.

Done correctly, this is an excellent idea for about 60% of schoolkids, IMO. And a good step towards making them productive members of society.Partner them with industry during the summer to get a taste of the working world. I'd also recommend that they all be made to learn some life skills, like household budgeting.

Originally posted by mauskov
What do people here think of a free college education? Do you think it would be a step in the right direction for the American populace?

What about mandatory schooling? Should education be necessary, and until what age? Under what circumstances?

I'm curious to know what people think. I'll post my own opinions once this gets a few hits.

free college? no way. you'd drag down our college education system. college isnt for everyone, and what would you do about the Military Academys


and i already have my college paid for. i get 40,000 dollars for working on ICBMs for 4 years. its awsome

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by KrazyIvan]

Free college is not OK with me; it's not earned, kids won't appreciate it, many will just use it as another four years of delaying growing up. I would be willing to do some sort of exchange for service to the country, though, and not only military, but things such as work in the community.

Money is much less an obstacle to a college education these days than it was in the past, what with grants, etc. We need other thing much more - like affordable health care, and home ownership for the average family.

I believe that it is the government's responsibility to take care of citizens to a certain extent. Public school should be around and should 100% be mandatory. If children did not go to school at all they would be nothing but a burden to the rest of society. What would the American society do if school wasn't mandatory and 25 million Americans suddenly were illiterate and couldn't work, make money or support themselves. We simply can't handle that burden. So yes, Elementary school and high school should be mandatory to build basic skills.

As for college... well, I don't think that should be free necessarily. Affordable yes. Do I think it's fair to charge 30,000 dollars a year to send your kid to a dorm to smoke pot nightly and get fat. Not really. It should be affordable and financial aid should be offered (up to and including 100% aid) to students who actually work hard. If a person is serious about getting an education this helps them and society in general.

Originally posted by Pisky

I got into Grammar school and college purely based on my abilities. If I had had to pay, I wouldn't have been able to attend. Alongside free health care, I am happy to pay a little more tax to ensure free college education.

Pisky, it must be much different where you are. Grammar school here in the US is mandatory, and free to the children. Grammar school, defined as grades 1 thru 6.



[Edited on 4-5-2004 by jsobecky]

I think that free college education is a good idea, but first, there needs to be more funding dedicated towards the school systems.

it's a sick joke that we spent over 100 times more on defense than we do on education here on the US. dont get taxpayers to take the brunt of the 'free school offensive', transfer some of that military budget money for pete's sake!

Man some of these responses!

Bottom line: College is cheaper than jail.

For the people saying get rid of ALL public education... well, it just makes me shudder to think of this place after that.

You think we have gang and drug problems now? Yikes.

Anyway, there's been alot of big Republican talk lately about how outsourcing these crappy customer service and entry level programming jobs is a good thing because it will make better jobs for us eventually and they promised to help America prepare for it.

So if not with education, how are they helping us with anything...except out of a job?

Face it. The middle class (and our job choices) is shrinking. Without access to college the lower class just gets bigger and bigger...and pretty soon America is just one big Wal-Mart with a handful making all the money.

All the boot straps and gumption in the world won't help even the best Republican out there if there's no jobs other than Army grunt, ditch digger or being born rich.

We were discussing this recently, and I do not believe ina free college system; this rationlisation, however, is not for the same reasons that many of you have said, other than "College is not for everyone."

In Europe, particularly the more "liberal" countries, college is free -- Of course, these are also the countries that pay upwards of 80% of their earned income each year to taxes, as well, in order to support such a system.

It seems to me like the UK system has got it right: Set up an academic tracking system. Said system would then divy up the student populace, sending them into either a trained vocation (that is, autocar mechanics, etc), and the other track is segued into a "learned" skill - law, teaching, etc. This tracking then makes college possible for those who necessitate/would benefit from it, and also dips into those who aren't exactly "college material."

In my mind, society naturally stratefies. In the past fifty years, there has been a huge number (more so than any previous generation) graduating high school. As a result, we see the decrase in a high school diploma's "worth" in the real world. In the 1940s, sans a HS diploma, it was far more viable for a student to graduate and receive a well-paying job.

Nowadays, it is a "norm" for a person to possess a high school degree: Even enlistement in the army requires a diploma (or GED equivalent). Having a well-educated populace certainly isn't a misstep, as far as I'm concerned. However, were the collegiate system opened up to anyone and everyone, there would be no seperation of peoples.

Society does - and needs to - naturally stratify itself based upon the population. That is, you need the blue-collar, generally "less-educated" class to perform their tasks, while the white collar, more-educated class to go about their duties, as well. Were Bachelor's and Associates' degrees available to whomever showed interest (and four years of dedication, probably a formidable sieve)...well, the utter value of the degree itself would vaporise.

Public education as a whole is a beneficial thing, but only until a certain point. I believe that students should be mandated to attend until the age of fourteen, not sixteen . People who drop out at fourteen are the same people who would drop out at sixteen. Additionally, I think the back-of-the-packers drag down the educational system, as well. As much as the "No Child Left Behind Act" is concerned, it's doing far more harm than good (What epiliptic, semi-retarded, barely sentient sack of waste thought that one up?) ....

Gang and drugs aren't a problem, because if people are involved in that lifestyle, college isn't going to miraculously straighten it out. People conscientously make the decision to involve themselves in these lifestyles; as a result, why is it anyone's responsiblity - let alone the American government, people, etc - have the responsibility for "straightening these people out" ?

Pretty elitist there Mauskov.

So you want the lower class to not have too easy an access to higher education so that you can keep your place over them.

I know those aren't your exact words...but it's what you said.

Originally posted by RANT
Pretty elitist there Mauskov.

So you want the lower class to not have too easy an access to higher education so that you can keep your place over them.

I know those aren't your exact words...but it's what you said.

Elitest?
Perhaps.

I don't much believe in "hand outs," moreso I believe in "Handups."

It has nothing to do with "keeping my place" over anyone. I'm making my sacrifices to go to college, and I expect others to do the same. If everyone has a degree, then the value of it is gone. As the old adage goes, "Where there's a will, there's a way" -- if college is important to people, then they will find a way to go, and have it paid for.

Frankly, if anything is important enough, there is a way to do it. In our instant-gratification society, it's difficult for most people - partuclarly my peers - to understand the concept of actually having to work for something.

You can come from the poorest slum in the worst part of the 'states and still tell a story of an Ivy league education; it's in how badly you want it and what you're willing to do to get it. There is an opportunity cost to everything, and I speak from experience on this - or at least, potential experience.

There is already a system for this free college education in place. There are thousands of scholarships out there for anyone who really wants to go to college. Most of the time to get these scholarships all you have to do is do well in high school. So I don't know about you guys but I think this system is great because it is already paying for the kids who do well and try in school. In my area, I believe if you get over a 30 on your ACT you can get the Bright Flight scholarship which pays for a good portion of college.

There is nothing that would get me to pay for the college education of someone who is just going to fail out in a year.

Originally posted by Styki
There is already a system for this free college education in place. There are thousands of scholarships out there for anyone who really wants to go to college. Most of the time to get these scholarships all you have to do is do well in high school. So I don't know about you guys but I think this system is great because it is already paying for the kids who do well and try in school. In my area, I believe if you get over a 30 on your ACT you can get the Bright Flight scholarship which pays for a good portion of college.

There is nothing that would get me to pay for the college education of someone who is just going to fail out in a year.

Exactly!

schloarships are a waste of time. you have to compet for them and waste all that time filling out those dumb essays. and most the time there only lik 400-500 dollars. you cant even get a smester fo that. 400-500 dollars is like enough for books and maybe a dorm for a semseter. those who apply for scholarships are, in my opinion, wasting their time.

You either pay for college by tuition or pay for it through taxes. The costs of it don't go away. The difference in the latter is that you end up paying for everyone else to go, too.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Pisky, it must be much different where you are. Grammar school here in the US is mandatory, and free to the children. Grammar school, defined as grades 1 thru 6.

In the UK, to get into Grammar School meant that you had to pass what was known as the 11+ exam.
Grammar schools at that time were only for the top 5% of students. (Age 11 - 17/18) Everyone else went to Comprehensive schools (like the US High Schools).