Are people so uneducated as to think the world could function without monetary systems?

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by wycky

 

You see though - these skilled people have a MUCH better life (or at least 90% of them) in todays society.

That number will fluctuate depending on the economy...

Depends what your definition of a "much better life" is

Even in your perfect world, there will always be work that needs to be done. The resources will become so limited though, and once one person with a bit of greed comes in, it will just turn into what we have now.

That's true but work is shared, rules are set into place, but your right there is always a chance of greed and corruption, but hopefully things can be done so there is no need / benefit for corruption.
I guess resources can become limited, but using things like solar, wind geothermal etc natural methods, power would be unlimited. Food is grown and harvested depending on the size of the society.
Using our current methods yes, your right resources will be come limited

edit - One more thing. If you want to live life in a house and just have food, and a phone for work, you do realize how cheap you could live?

You are acting like such materialistic objects are a must in our society. It is only if you let it be that way.

I agree, tell my wife that HAHAHA

I am not going to do the research for you - but I could only imagine that the cost of living would be very minimal if you want it to be. Get a super cheap house, super cheap car, and eat super cheap food (or grow your own for that matter).

There you go. You will work lets just say a full time job (even if at minimum wage) like you would have to in any society (the "job" title might be different, as you will just be on a farm with family), and have the same objects. A cheap house, car, etc.

The thing is, in our society today, it allows BOTH. If you wish to live cheaply, you can. Or, if you have the talent, you can live extraordinary.

I agree, we all have a choice on the way we want to live.
Problem is people who do, do their own thing and a lot of people in society outcast them, called them weird, or hill billies ect.


[edit on 29-6-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

reply to post by no1dea


Well I think all of you guys who want to go back to the tribal way of life should get together and live in huts and die of disease like they did before science came along.

reply to post by wycky


So we should all become some form of lame communism just because the world is full of dumbasses that need to buy everything their neighbors have or that they see on TV? So that is the solution. How about letting them go broke and learn some lessons about money. That sounds like a good solution to me.

reply to post by wycky

I agree, we all have a choice on the way we want to live.
Problem is people who do, do their own thing and a lot of people in society outcast them, called them weird, or hill billies ect.

So you wouldnt do the right thing just because people would call you names or outcast you? I think Frito has a good point if people want to live the way you say they should do that and let us live the way we want.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
How would we buy anything that was expensive, like a house, a car, another business, etc?

How would the world function without some form of money?

Am I missing some profound sort of knowledge or something?

How did it function before money?
Why were people less controlled and had more freedom before money??
You see before money, we made things, built things, created things, together.
Everyone took part everyone helped and played a part.
And everyone got some of the benefits.
Now, everyone makes things for a minority few to create wealth for them and give them a great existence and power and control over everyone else.
And gets nothing more out of it other than existing.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by wycky

 

So we should all become some form of lame communism just because the world is full of dumbasses that need to buy everything their neighbors have or that they see on TV? So that is the solution. How about letting them go broke and learn some lessons about money. That sounds like a good solution to me.

I don't recall once mentioning communism

reply to post by wycky


The whole Venus Project is nothing more than some fanciful form of communism with a little sci-fi channel mixed in.

reply to post by CaptainCaveMan


I will tell you how it functioned before money. People lived in huts and drove horses to work. People died from diseases that are curable now. People didnt have electricity, went to the bathroom in their backyard or the gutter. Sounds like a great life.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by wycky

 

I agree, we all have a choice on the way we want to live.
Problem is people who do, do their own thing and a lot of people in society outcast them, called them weird, or hill billies ect.

So you wouldnt do the right thing just because people would call you names or outcast you? I think Frito has a good point if people want to live the way you say they should do that and let us live the way we want.

No it doesn't bother ma at all.
but alot of people have that sort of image and considerate it a bad thing.

Take this whole thread for example
All i said was "i would rather be farming my own vegetables then spending my days at work in front of a computer" and all of a sudden im moving to a disease stricken Africa tribe.


[edit on 29/6/2009 by wycky]

[edit on 29/6/2009 by wycky]

reply to post by wycky


LMAO, well nobody is stopping you from spending your days growing vegetables or whatever. With any choice their are rewards and consequences. I am all for you going out and growing vegetables if you want.

reply to post by wycky


Wycky, I really do hate trying to speak for others, but it seems you are more upset with very few areas of a capitalist economy rather than the whole thing.

You mentioned solar power, wind, etc. I am 100% in support of taxes going towards things like this. The problem is, our government LEADERS are corrupt - not the system itself.

I also believe everything eventually becomes corrupt, or falls apart.

If we lived in a true democracy, or even a true representative democracy, many problems we face today would be gone as a society.

We can blame the people in charge for that though. Whenever a "revolution" occurs, normally "good" guys will rule for a few terms or periods.

A competitive economy is fine...but it is our leaders which are hurting things. Is it impossible to fix "them"? I wish I knew the answer to that question myself.

STILL - in terms of actually governments/economic set ups - I have yet to be persuaded on how things would actually function better than they do now. Just because it "sounds" good - does not mean it will work what so ever, and that is my problem seeing your view.

Wow if this argument isn't the most pin-headed thing iv'e ever heard then i dont know what is.

Bottom line. -The monetary system was good, it is now bad. Money used to be a great way to measure what is mine and what is yours, and how we came to accumulate it. However because money is now so easily manipulated it is begining to lose all meaning to some people and has become the meaning of life for some. Do you know why you shouldn't be aloud to buy a 500k house? Because one day you die, and unless you feel it's necessary to own a house that your entire lineage can continue to live in then you dont need it.

The monetary system in todays age is no doubt way out of balance, im not against being wealthy, but wealth is not necessary for happiness.

Happiness and fullfillment have not ever came from materiel things, and frankly evolution is tired of us waiting to figure that out for ourselves.

Technological singularity will make a resource based economy possible, and not only possible, but our entire idea of what society is like will be completely forgotten because of the technology we will have created. As many of us have been educated to understand, the monetary system is based off of, and propagates-Scarcity. It's really that simple, so long as we look at the world in terms of scarcity and "Not enough" we will never create abundance.

If you even had the slightest clue about the possibilities of nano-technology and contelligence, you would understand that we shouldn't be focusing on "If its a good idea" But rather on "Think of all the things we could do then..."

Infinite Virtual Reality
Molecular Manipulation
Interplanetary Construction

Im not going to go back through this thread and pick out all of the things that Grapesofraft and others have said about a RBE simply because they're just plain examples of the institution trying to preserve itself, the monetary system was great sure but...

We have around 1 billion people starving in the world, and its not getting fixed becase theres no money in that problem.

We could be creating clean energy technology and possibly preserving our Earth in many ways at the same time, but theres not alot of profit in preservation, expecially not in energy preservation.
As a matter of fact we have a new tax because of an exploit on the idea that CO2 should be taxed. Thats a doubly whammy, theyre tricking people into believing they are helping the enviorment by charging them for it.

before Ronald Reagen, the average CEO of a company made 30x the amount the average worker. (35k a year employee, 1mill for CEO)

Since his tax cuts and similar cuts through history primarily bush, we now have the average CEO making over 500 times the average worker. Does the CEO of that company really put over 500 times the value into society as any one of his workers? Really it would be nice if they could reinvest that money back into their company like they used to , but he was too busy trying to buy a Royce with solid gold rims.

Anyway now im rambling about the apparent corruptions in the monetary system. However my point really is this- The resource based economy isn't possible yet because it requires two things that are definately comming and growing everyday, but aren't mature enough yet, and those two things are Technoloy and Conciousness. Time will show that we humans were always ment to live similar to the ways of the Venus Project. Time will demonstrate what is true.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


I agree with you.
It is a handful of corporations, people, politicians that are the problem, but this hand full are in total power and the sheepeople do not see this.
The thing that give this handful the power is money. I don't remember who said it but they said "they who control the money, control the world". This is unfortunately very true, and as Ansiroth said 2 things need to mature before we change this, Technology and our Consciousness before this can change.

Edit - Typo

[edit on 29/6/2009 by wycky]

reply to post by Ansiroth


Ansiroth - would such a system reward those who want to work more? Would it reward those who "want" to spend whole weeks developing "better" technology?

Are you going to assign "tasks" to people, or do people get to pick? What happens when there are "dirty jobs" that need filled, yet no one wants to do them? Will it be assigned, or will people be allowed to do no work and feed off the resources?

IS everyone even in your system? Even those who can not do ANYTHING useful, or at the most do an hour of work at a rate where others can do it in 5 minutes?

What about education? Engineers? Will they have to work their butts off to get the same as someone who barely does anything, or can't do anything?

There is one key factor you are forgetting. While YOU (not us!) might not want to live in a fancy house with nice cars, there are those that do. Who are YOU to say that is wrong if they work for it?

People are well aware (or should be) of the type of future certain life styles can lead to.

Everyone can't be everything. It will NEVER happen.

edit - Look at my previous post about how the system was good, and now it is bad. Revolution is not needed, a chance of leaders is though. A REAL change.

If the wheels on the car are rotted, you don't ditch the whole thing!


[edit on 29-6-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

reply to post by wycky


There will always be something that society holds as a common valuable. There will always be someone there to manipulate things, allowing control of it.

Could be money, land, food, ANYTHING that society deems a need to life.

The only way to (IMO) stop this, is to get rid of the entire market. How likely is that?

Some of you are arguing dreams (magical fairy world type of dreams) with reality.

Let me try it. "WORLD PEACE! JUST STOP KILLING EACH OTHER!".

That is a brilliant idea! How does it work again...

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


You don't understand the true implications of a technological singularity, although i cannot say that we will reach one with certainty, if humankind ever reached that point in development, even pondering the way that we perceive reality today would be considered nonsensical. Everything will be different after we create a singularity, however it does not happen i do not forsee a RBE possible, simply because we will almost certainly end up in a necrosphere, instead of a noosphere.

reply to post by Ansiroth


To many big words for me to understand...

Mind explaining that to an idiot? Seriously

You don't have to be uneducated to think a world without money is possible. I'm educated but I still think its possible. I haven't put a lot of thought into it but I don't think its that awfully hard to imagine. IMO the resources would not be controlled by a nation wide sort of system. I'm sure resources would be sent to places that needed them but it would be more self sufficient communities making up the cities and such. The food would come from a community farm/garden that all the inhabitants would tend to. Within the region or community there would be workshops, mines, construction sites, refineries, machine shops, etc, to make different sorts of tools, machine and machine parts, cut lumber, cloth, or whatever else is needed at the time according to availability of resources. They would be built by the community it was in but available to all who choose to use it. There would be no 9-5's because it would be a do it yourself kind of thing. Everyone would be taught the maths, the different sciences, cultivation, masonry, plumbing, and any other trade you can think of. Electricity would come from wind or solar until something better is engineered. The cooperation between neighbors of the community would bring people closer to that all love, no hate state of being. Thats just my opinion though, of course.

[edit on 7/1/2009 by ALOTOFBS]

[edit on 7/1/2009 by ALOTOFBS]

Originally posted by munkey66
indidionous tribes from all around the world seemed to cope fine with no money, the entire village shared all recources as well as materials and tools.

I think the uneducated ones cannot see a way of doing it

Prices go up precisely because people can get loans to pay more money for cars and houses.

Originally posted by CharlesMartel

Originally posted by munkey66

Prices go up precisely because people can get loans to pay more money for cars and houses.

You are correct, but I dont see how it has anything to do with the guy you quoted or this thread.