how do you get 30 tonnes of Nano Thermite into Class A buildings...?

Originally posted by thedman
Please return to reality......

Reality has absolutely no place in this conversation.

reply to post by BornPatriot


Freight elevator loaded in the parking garage after hours.

One quarter ton at a time.

Assuming that loading and taking the freight elevator to top floor takes 3 min.

Assuming that max load is 500lbs (quarter ton) per trip. (Not including personnel)

Assuming that the Elevator return trip and unloading takes another 3 min.

30 tons * 2,000 (lbs per ton) = 60,000 lbs

60,000lbs / 500 (max elevator load) = 120 elevator trips.

120 trips * 6 min total per trip = 720 min.

720 min = 12 hours.


Not only possible, but accomplished every day in high rises.

And there was more than one freight elevator.

And they hold more than 500lbs.

And not every trip takes the maximum amount of time.

With many of the floors being empty, they could place and wire the explosives at their leisure.

IT has been reported that different companies were moved from floor to floor in the weeks and months preceding 9/11

Not to mention that the security company had Marvin Bush on the board of directors.

-Edrick

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Edrick]

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Edrick]

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Edrick]

reply to post by Edrick


well, you make several assumptions like there where one building ... bottom to top... and well 3 buildings make each tower. so, to get to the top you need to take 3 elevators ... thats my understanding ... the elevators where air tight, something about the air pressure difference from bottom to top.... we have total collapse like one building... and archiets - engineers and physist's - says absolutely impossible... non-fiction... and if the story we have been told is non-fiction .... then the fiction is our worse nightmare ... time to wake up .... freddie is coming

Originally posted by BornPatriot
reply to post by Edrick

 

well, you make several assumptions like there where one building ... bottom to top... and well 3 buildings make each tower. so, to get to the top you need to take 3 elevators ... thats my understanding ...

Uh, no.

For the regular elevators, Yes, there were three sets.

But service elevators go all the way up, and all the way down.

the elevators where air tight, something about the air pressure difference from bottom to top....

Yes, that is because of Fire Code.

The elevators have to be airtight because when the fire alarm goes off, the supply air dampers for the floors where the alarm is slam shut, in an attempt to starve the fire.

Also, the air dampers in the floor surrounding the floor on fire open wide, to keep smoke from bleeding through the slab (Pressurization)

The elevator banks in the WTC were all isolated in the core of the building, and supply air through the elevators would have cut off immediately upon a fire signal.

we have total collapse like one building... and archiets - engineers and physist's - says absolutely impossible... non-fiction... and if the story we have been told is non-fiction .... then the fiction is our worse nightmare ... time to wake up .... freddie is coming

Indeed.

-Edrick

the explosives put there after the first hits in the 90´s as a precaution measure if the towers where ever attacked again they could be "pulled" if the damage recived was so sever that rebuilding them was no option ,

by guiliani or what his name was , the old ny major ,

so ive heard.

By using the printer paper deliver truck.

Maybe you actually turn the explosives into printer paper.

I bet there are 30 ton of paper in those buildings and well distributed throughout.

No one would suspect the office paper deliver truck.

If that were the case, then there are sheets of the stuff filed away right now!

A tell tale sign of this method would be that there would be far too few pieces of paper remaining after the explosion.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by Cyberbian]

Originally posted by king9072
And I don't understand why people see it as being so tough to do this stuff at night without people "noticing"... the only people in the building are cleaning crew and security. If you do not subscribe to the official version of events, then you accept that security was either oblivious or complacent. No janitor is going to question any official looking character moving throughout the building.

The reason you don't understand is simple- those conspiracy websites you're getting all this stuff from are thoroughly full of sh*t and they're leaving you feel so mixed up you don't know which way is up or down.

The only people "in the building" would be the New York Port Authority, and they were more than just custodians and security. They were maintenence personnel who repaired the machinery. There were electricians who took care of the electrical systems. There were inspectors always on the lookout for rust, metal fatigue, water seepage, etc. there were people who went to the tenents to check whether they were following building code. And so on and so forth. They had to have these people becuase very OTHER large building in the world has these people. Thus, when an electrician looking for shorts opens up a transformer box and discoveres a mysterious package that wasn't there before, he's damned well going to want to know what the heck it is.

FYI being the Port Authority, there would never be "mysterious official looking people" suddenly showing up unannounced. They'd have been NYPA personnel who'd have been working there for years.

Additionally, it's not like the thermite was planted under peoples keyboards or behind the fax machine. The places where it would have been planted would have been in service shafts, attics etc. Places where 99% of the tenants of the buildings never even seen after being in the building for decades.

Nope. The places where it would have to be would be the structural points that hold up the building, or else they wouldn't be controlled demolitions, They'd just be bombs. The structural points in the WTC were the internal support columns, where the NYPA technicians are specifically paid to check out, and the support braces in the ceiling areas and the columns in the external perimeter of the building, which is tenent office space that the tenents would see every day.

Not that it matters, since there are thousands of photos of the steel found during the cleanup of ground zero, and NOT ONE BEAM was ever shown to have been destroyed by explosives. Believe what you want, but whatever it was that destroyed the towers, it wasn't sabotage.

All of this could have been done by a team of professionals, through the night, in a matter of a week or two.

Nope. There were 49 internal structural supports, and 110 floors. Presuming one hour to set up charges on each column, this works out to be some 5400 man hours to accomplish. Assume at a minimum 30 mins to even get the explosives to the locations they need to be set up, and that becomes 8100 man hours. Either 8100 technicians descended on the place all at once, or a few technicians had to do it in about a year, both of which would have been blatantly suspicious to the people in the building.

You actually bring up the key issue, here- to even go this route you specifically have to not believe the "official version", and once you do that, it opens the door to all sorts of bizarre and absurd explanations and flights of fantasia, which has NO place in a discussion dedicated to "finding out the truth behind the 9/11 attack". If you don't want to believe the accepted account, it's one thing, but you should have a reason *why* you shouldn't believe the standard account, not simply becuase you think it's funny to say it's all a pack of lies. Physics have to apply to conspiracies just like they do the rest of the world.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

NOT ONE BEAM was ever shown to have been destroyed by explosives.

Are you talking about all of the beams that were shipped to china before anyone had a chance to look at them?

Because yeah... They were never *SHOWN* to be destroyed, because the beams themselves were never *SHOWN*

Nice try though.

-Edrick

ya the towers where closed for a few days and empty at night for "construction" . This fact it not known sadly. the movie 911 mysteries talks about this i believe. however the reason they said ther where their was for wiring like phone lines and Ethernet.the wires where new as i recall only like 4 years old i think. and the workers-at the north and south tower complained about dust every where. mainly around the air ducks-the air ducks suck it on remember- their r pics of this too.it was concrete dust. they where drilling no on one knows because they where at home sleeping. only top staff where allowed in the building. that would have had been the perfect cover story they cut threw the wall and stucco and # to get to the support collums place the termite patch the hole and the workers are none the wiser.and if any one sats what r u doin they say phone lines.

BTW bad ass pic u got of obama i like it man. look up bush vampire. some guy painted bush sucking lady liberty's blood.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Vinveezy]

They go it in through the schedualed maitainence and asbestos 'cleaning'.

Originally posted by Edrick
Freight elevator loaded in the parking garage after hours.

One quarter ton at a time.

Assuming that loading and taking the freight elevator to top floor takes 3 min.

Assuming that max load is 500lbs (quarter ton) per trip. (Not including personnel)

Assuming that the Elevator return trip and unloading takes another 3 min.

30 tons * 2,000 (lbs per ton) = 60,000 lbs

60,000lbs / 500 (max elevator load) = 120 elevator trips.

120 trips * 6 min total per trip = 720 min.

720 min = 12 hours.

Yeah, but this is just getting them to the individual floors. You still have to take into account how much time it would take to plant them. Assuming one hour to plant the explosives, prime them, link them in sequence, conceal them so that noone can find them, etc etc etc, on each support beam, it's be 1 hour x 49 support beams per floor x 110 floors = 5400 man hours. That's about SEVEN MONTHS.

...and how long would it take to even bring the explosives into the building to begin with? Presuming 1,000 pounds per truck load, since I doubt anythign with a bigger load capacity would fit in that underground parking lot, that's THIRTY TRUCKS. Where the heck was the NYPA when all these trucks descended on the WTC complex, all at once?


The moral of the story is clear- it's one thing to come on with sexy sounding conspiracy theories, but it's another to pull them kicking and screaming into the real world. Physics have to apply to conspiracies just as they do the rest of us, after all.

Originally posted by Edrick

Are you talking about all of the beams that were shipped to china before anyone had a chance to look at them?

Because yeah... They were never *SHOWN* to be destroyed, because the beams themselves were never *SHOWN*

Not true. There are hundreds of photographs taken during the cleanup of ground zero floating around. Thsi is becuase NYC photographer Joel Meyerowitz got permission from the city leaders to go into ground zero and take photos. There are load sof photos of the steel beams as they looked almost immediately after the collapse, and NONE of them, not one, show any blast damage or even being cut by thermite. They all show damage that you'd expect from a collapse- twisting in grotesque angles, snapping like a twig, and being torn like a sheet of paper.

I recomment you buy the book, "Aftermath", a collection of some of the photos he took, and you'll see this for yourself. Come to think of it, simply browse the boards here and you'll be able to see them for free.