Do you survey the skys at night?

Originally posted by CX
After reading the posts here, i've gone outside tonight (it's past midnight here in the Uk at the moment) and sat looking at the night sky. It is a beautiful clear night, and lots of stars are out.

I can see a few of these things moving across the sky, they look like the ones in the videos posted here. They look as high as the stars, they look as tiny as the stars, and they are not flashing.

Could they not just be aircraft very far off though?

Is this more likely to be satellites? The one thing i do notice about them though, they seem to move a lot faster than normal aircraft. Nothing spectacular like shooting stars, but as though it was a military jet up there zooming across the stars.

Interesting stuff though, i'm off out to look at more.

CX.


[edit on 23/6/09 by CX]

Conventional aircraft climb a altitude of around 25 thousand feet and you should be able to make out the flashing lights that they have, like green and red is it?

Had a look last night again, lovely clear skies in England again.
soon as I started looking up, towards the constelation bootes, west , north west, I saw some very high strong lights around 4 in 5 mins,white light in colour around 2 am travelling from south west to north east.

could they be satelites, not sure, couldnt use the satelite tracker last night so not sure.
I know one light disapeared along its path then re-appeared so surely could rule out meteorites or satelite as that should be a steady light or fading light.


its not worth recording as I dont think a camera could pick them up that great.

they are either military, non-conventional or something else, not sure though.....

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
Guys, what you're seeing are satellites and junk in orbit.Depending on your latitude, during the summer, objects in orbit can be seen throughout the night as the sun never gets too far below the horizon. During winter, the sun dips much lower below the horizon, so satellites and junk are usually only seen a few hours after dark, and a few hours before light, when the sun is not too far below the horizon.

"Leap-frogging" and wavering motions are due to your own body movement. If you film the objects you will see that they move along a straight path.

Flashes are caused by junk glinting in the sun. In rare cases, you may have seen a point-meteor, which is a meteor that heads directly towards you, so there is no motion, only brightening and dimming. The "camera like flashes" are most probably junk though. You can usually catch more than one flash if you scan the area close by where you saw the first flash. They often flash at regular intervals, but not always.

Satellites appearing to stop is probably due to the satellite moving into earths shadow. When they do so, they disappear from view, and the eye latches onto a star that was not noticed before, since the brightness/motion of the satellite distracts from dimmer objects in the sky. The effect is worse the more light polluted your sky is I think, since contrast is low, and your are less likely to spot stationary dim stars/objects while your eye is roving.

If you film these, you will see that this is the case.

Someone previously mentioned that they had to sit with a friend in order to be able to observe the whole sky. I had to chuckle! You can cover the whole sky, from horizon to horizon with a single pair of eyes. Get yourself a reclining lawn chair or sun bed that can go fully horizontal (or just use a blanket/ground sheet), lay down flat, and face straight up.

This way your eyes will pick up motion in the sky all the way down to the horizon, and everywhere else in the sky. This technique has been used successfully for many decades to observe meteors, and is very effective.

I personally have been looking up at the sky and observing meteors for over a decade, and many of the observations posted in this thread are common occurrences, seen by amateur and professional astronomers/observes all the time. They are well documented, and I have seen them with my own two eyes. There is so much junk in orbit that it's impossible not to see them if you look.

I really, really doubt that what I am seeing are satellites/space junk. I've been an avid night time sky watcher for years, and I've never seen these moving lights before. They occur all throughout the night...not just before and after sunset.

I was able to track some of them last night, albeit we were under cloud cover most of the night, and the ones I did see had to be shining pretty brightly considering there was a 'haze' even then....but here goes:

All times are C.S.T. (A.M.)

3:45 - Headed North to South at 50-60 degrees

3:47 - Headed North to South, straight overhead

3:53 - Headed due East at 70 degrees

3:55 - Headed South to North at 80 degrees

4:00 - Headed North to South at 80 degrees

That was in the short 15 minutes that I was outside... and I know that the degrees relatively mean nothing to everyone, but I really couldn't track them according to constellations, there were not enough stars showing to know which constellation was what.

Originally posted by Vyncent
I really, really doubt that what I am seeing are satellites/space junk.

I think you are after reading back over your observation. It sounds like you saw a typical satellite flare.

Originally posted by Vyncent
They occur all throughout the night...not just before and after sunset.

As I said, at this time of year, they do occur throughout the night.

Originally posted by Vyncent
That was in the short 15 minutes that I was outside... and I know that the degrees relatively mean nothing to everyone, but I really couldn't track them according to constellations, there were not enough stars showing to know which constellation was what.

Most Satellite pass from North to South or vice versa, so your observations are consistent with that. I was looking last night, and saw pretty much exactly the same... as do many others every night. I even spotted some junk making sharp, random flashes after just 5 minutes looking up at the sky, as well as a couple of ordinary satellite pases.

Why are experienced sky observes and amateur/professional astronomers looking at the same sky and not seeing UFOs, and only inexperienced observes are?

(From one of my previous posts in this same thread I really didn't make much of these lights, until last night. The last light I saw was moving North to South, and it was dim at first, but the thing got very very bright for about three seconds, then faded back to its beginning state. I watched the thing for as long as I could see it, but it didn't do it again.
That sent chills down my spine. I once was on the fence, lol, I'm not any longer.

Let me add to this one a little bit...what convinced me that this was 'something' is the fact that it shot a beam of light out of itself that went from the same direction that it was heading to the opposite direction it was heading...

(From one of my previous posts in this same thread This thing couldn't have been over 3 miles away from us to the North. My friend said "What is that?", I looked and saw something that was glowing/illuminated (constantly...no blinking lights) very brightly lift straight off the ground, then it started heading Southwest, and about five to ten seconds after it started heading Southwest, it quit glowing so brightly and started blinking like a normal airplane. We are going to return to the same field soon to see if we can get a telescope on the thing...IF it is there again.

(From one of my previous posts in this same thread There were lights, way way way up there that were moving, most of them South to North, I saw three of them that night, and one of them, before it was out of my line of sight, curved and illuminated itself faintly.

And I'm sorry, I'm still not buying the 'space junk/satellite' theory...as I said, I've been an avid night time sky watcher for years (25+), and I've never ever seen anything like the activity we have above our hometown now. Not even this time last year.

I don't know what happened to the videos in this link:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But the videos showed the same kind of phenomena that I am seeing, and this was from the ATS team.

Ok, well that's obviously not a satellite. It sounds like a plane seen head on. It's common not to be able to see the strobes when planes are seen head on. I've seen it myself numerous times, as I live close to a busy airport, and the aircraft turn just before they reach me after having approached me head on.

A question for you if i may......do all satellites, or whatever these moving lights up there are, all travel in the same direction in orbit?

I ask because tonight at 2am i woke my daughters up to come and watch the ISS go overhead, looked like a bright star passing over. About 30 seconds later another dimmer light followed it in the same direction.

However we saw a few other lights up there, like tiny stars moving around, that flew in different directions to the ISS.

I thought everything floating in orbit would have travelled in the same direction?

Or is that totaly wrong?

CX.

[edit on 9/7/09 by CX]

To the last poster before me,

check this link out!
Its a real time satelite tracker.

science.nasa.gov...">science.nasa.gov...

Dont forget if you see lights slightly bendind and curving, its the curving of Earth and space.


regards.

Was looking at a spectacular Jupiter through the scope the other very clear night - but cold. Anyway that was looking SSW at 8:30pm 7th July (Full Moon)...

Then I looked to my right (WEST) and woah! 2 strobing white lights - so yeah these have to be planes, or choppers right? Well they were blinking in turn and for a slight instant there was a 3rd light that strobed but then dissapeared. The other 2 continued to "fly" soundlessly, and in formation one on top of the other about 200-500m gap.

THEN I waved (lol) and was telling them to "come say hello" (lol) ... THEN they both turned while leveling out and becoming side by side - same distance apart, and turned SOUTH towards Jupiter, then they both stopped strobing and one went red, the other stayed white - and they just seemed to float off - NO SOUND.

Then about 1 hour later I noticed about 2-3 small propeller type light planes circling and flying in that same area - their lights looked exactly as they should - port/starboard lights with front and tail lights - and NOISE.

It was funny how when I signaled "them" to come say hi, they changed their path lol - i think if these were ETs - they have a great understanding of all our individual personal psyches, and probably are testing the waters before they do come say hello - otherwise they might scare or freak us out..who knows?

And of course they could be some government thing that they don't tell us about - even though they should, because never forget the governments work for you and I not the other way around - and ETs should know this! And know we ain't happy with our leaders at the most significant times.

I'm just in from a short survey to observe the ISS. As expected, it passed over the UK at around 11.15 this evening (thankfully a clear sky). The magnitude was -3.2 so very bright indeed. Also as expected, about 45 seconds after the ISS, a dimmer, unmanned Russion Progress module followed a similar path. The module will be testing it's automated docking maneuver in two days time. That will be interesting to observe if the sky's clear.

Other than a few stars, I observed nothing else extraordinary. In fifty years of study, I've never observed any traversing light stop and change direction. Never seen any zig-zagging motion or anything else that defies the laws of physics and orbital mechanics. I didn't offer any prayer though and I'd left my laser pointer indoors, so maybe next time.

Update:

It's about 90 minutes since my post above and I've again just come inside after viewing another overpass of the ISS. This time the brightness was even higher at -3.3 and the little Progress module was right there behind it. The separation remains at about 45 seconds, but I guess over the coming 48 hours this will reduce dramatically. The docking takes place on 12 July, so it will be boosting it's speed a bit to catch up with its target. It'll be interesting to see how the gap has closed tomorrow night. There's another bright pass later this morning but I need some sleep. In fact there are four bright apparitions on 11 July and maybe more in the twilight hours around sunrise/set. I'll not be there though.

The only other movement I noticed tonight was a faint satellite moving north to south, so crossing the path of the ISS, which is overpassing approximately west to east atm, with a maximum elevation this morning of about 50 degrees. The sky was still pretty clear though brightened significantly by a large gibbous moon which had risen between times. A brilliant Jupiter is right with it as expected. A fantastic sight! Oh I forgot my damned laser again and needless to say, praying was the last thing on my mind.

WG3

[edit on 10-7-2009 by waveguide3]

[edit on 10-7-2009 by waveguide3]

reply to post by CX


Not everything travels in the same direction. The ISS orbits West >> East. Many others orbit North >> South or South >> North (iridiums for example). There is also plenty of random junk up there!

In many cases, satellites traveling in more or less the same direction are kept orbiting at altitudes above or below to those going in different directions, but that is not always the case, as the recent, and first ever crash involving two previously intact satellites (the Russian COSMOS 2251 and IRIDIUM 33) demonstrated!

What you saw following the ISS was probably the unmanned Russion Progress module waveguide wrote about in his last post here.


Hey waveguide, I was thinking about getting a laser pointer (before they ban them!). Have you got any tips/recommendations?

I say this nicely, but those of you who suggest that these objects are planes, satellites or space junk need to actually go outside and watch these things. As an avid night sky watcher, I know exactly what the OP is talking about and these things are definitely not any of the above mentioned objects. How do I know? Satellites and space junk move in an orbit... they don't go from one horizon to the next in ten seconds or less and they are not able to dance across the sky, going in every possible direction. Neither do planes. I haven't been able to catch the objects on camera... my video camera wont even pick up light from the stars. I have personally seen these objects come in from one direction, circle, loop and twirl around and then disappear back into the direction they came from. Satellites don't do that. I think the best way I can describe the motion of these objects is to say that they kind of move like a balloon that you blow up and then just let go without tying it. They just kind of fly all over the place, so fast that they're hard to keep up with. They're fascinating, whatever they are. I live in central Ky and these things are ALWAYS visible on a clear night. I started my own thread about them a few weeks ago.

My thread is here.

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


Thank you for that, much appreciated.

It is great having it confirmed that i was watching the right thing up there, and it's a bonus to know what the following sat was.

I can tell the kids this morning, they'll be fascinated.

Thanks again,

CX.

I don't watch the skies at night.

I'm usually reading or on ATS!



[edit on 11-7-2009 by Sam60]

I have bought my youngest child a high powered telescope and whilst viewing the moon we have seen some remarkable images and a lot of activity of crafts or critters around the moon.

simple steps:
Once the sun goes down and you start seeing the first stars at night, go outside for a couple hours with binoculars (and bug spray)...you will see plenty of moving starlike objects.
Now, he gave me a couple websites to check for the traffic of space for satellites, debris, etc:
For the USA: this one is the easiest to schedule - www.spaceweather.com...

there is a lot of satellite traffic but once you get to know what your looking for and you decipher the satellite traffic from the norm your on your way to discovery.

Originally posted by Sam60
I don't watch the skies at night.

I'm usually reading or on ATS!

[edit on 11-7-2009 by Sam60]

I would like to comment but i would be banned . as one of my threads have been deleted already with no explanation or reply so I will stick to reading myself.

like your work Sam keep up it up.

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.Hey waveguide, I was thinking about getting a laser pointer (before they ban them!). Have you got any tips/recommendations?

Definitely get the green type, far easier to see in the dark. They typically range from a few mW power upwards. I've got a 50mW and a 250mW but there's no obvious difference visually. The wattage rating isn't necessarily what comes out. They're all downrated for public sale. The higher the wattage the shorter the batteries will last. Output will fade rapidy when the unit/batteries get cold. If you intend using one as a 'scope targeter, lag the pen thoroughly. Other than that, they're great fun. I've never tried flashing at an unknown object because I've never seen any.

WG3

reply to post by waveguide3


Cheers waveguide. Yeah, I have a 5mw red laser gun sight, and it's hopeless at pointing at anything in the sky, as I found out, after having specially packed it it, and taken it abroad a few years back for a major astronomical event.

I wasn't sure what kind of power to get, but you clarified that for me. I have a feeling that even the smaller green pointers (

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
Probably not a good idea to try flashing it at an unknown object, in case that object turns out to be something you misidentified, - - - -

True. However I don't expect I'll ever see an uknown object anyway.

As for the lasers, I'd like to test their range by finding the most distant target the pointer will spotlight. It would need to be mounted on a scope or similar with a collegue in radio contact who's prepared to go into the countryside at night. I believe they'll reach ten miles, some twice that. Seems difficult to believe though.

WG3

reply to post by waveguide3


I think your main enemy will be the air quality/transparency at long distance as you probably already know, but I'll wager on a clear night, and a well set up laser, you could probably see the light from it 50 miles away.

Can you collimate the beam on any of yours? Even if you can't, I'm sure it'll easily do 10 or 20 miles.

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
reply to post by waveguide3
Can you collimate the beam on any of yours? Even if you can't, I'm sure it'll easily do 10 or 20 miles.

Don't think so. They're just off the shelf pointers.

WG3