Goldman to make record bonus payout

reply to post by Maxmars


Ok, I realize you all might not get what I am talking about..

Here is an example of one of my formulas


///=AND(($J$4$J$9+($J$9*0.003452),E3

EDIT: this html or whatever blocks the rest of the code and my post.. so just disregard this post - thanks

[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Yeah, there are certain coding sequences that the system will reject or try to 'interpret'.

I think I see to what you are referring, but I don't pretend to be a scholar in this matter. I only know what effect it is having.

The trading market closes at 4(5?) right?

Why? Why not just keep it open? Why not allow the activity to continue throughout the night? Why does Wall Street operate on "bankers" hours?

I'm not referring to e-trading, I mean actual human to human trading. Or am I mistaken about that?

reply to post by Maxmars


Big amts. of shares by rule must be executed on the floor of the exchange.. you just cant sell 100,000 shares on scotttrader lol..*edit* maybe you can actually.. but the order would go to the floor.. not sure of their exact rules etc..

There are other reasons of course.. and you CAN trade afterhours or buy/sell futures contracts..

I am not expecting you to be informed in these matters if you are not in the game, but I think here is the problem brother.

People read biased articles from people that really do not know what they are talking about.. get angry then post information here that is misinformation and then the wave of "negativity" keeps going down the line over and over etc.. if you get what I mean..

But yes, if you have the "balls" you can trade after hours in equities.. but I WOULD NOT recommend it unless you have a terminal at an exchange or something.. bc you will get EATEN because there is not much liquidity at these times..

That is why you DO NOT want to trade EURO overnight when the japan markets are open because you will get crunched by the whipsaw of japanese markets and only want to trade them while the london trading period is open..

These are very advanced topics and are hard to explain as well

[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by Maxmars


Oh and if I didnt answer your questions there you might want to explain yourself a little better bc I dont know if I understood that all correctly

reply to post by GreenBicMan


It's hard to explain when ignorance is my strongest suit in the subject.

However, you did say something that sort of validates my question.

Why are the markets "ever" closed at all. Is there some reason that Japan and England and the US can't have their markets open at the same time - as in 24/7/365?

Do they HAVE to close "overnight", or is that just some convenience dealing with 'daylight'?

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


It's all a big scam. A shell game that is played by the executives with our 'representatives' aiding and abetting. Let's face it 'capitalism' has failed. We're being looted from the inside.

reply to post by Maxmars


Dont worry about it.. I have been surrounded by the madness my whole life lol

Well the floor has to be closed at some point bc of the fact that people need to sleep - trading hours (normal) are from 930 EST to 400 EST

Then the markets close for a bit to adjust everything, then afterhours opens back up as well as the futures contracts..

Futures trade all night and through the CME, CBOT, ICE, NYMEX they just do not trade on the weekends until 8 EST sunday night and are closed at 415 on friday night

You can trade all night in equities if you like.. but SLIPPAGE will occur and it is not worth it -

All trading now is ELECTRONIC no matter where you go and has been for a really long time.. does this help?

reply to post by SpacePunk


Capitalism has "failed" on short term levels bc of shi**y govt. involvment in the wrong areas at the wrong time..

In a perfect world companies that are "worth it" and are cheap relative to their PE would be snatched up by bigger fish.. unfortunately we didn't fully allow that to happen and govt. involvement happened instead.. although we did have some major short term problems so its a give and take I guess... I would hate to see a total destruction of the economy on the other hand.. so its a tough question to answer

The best thing we could do is to define our terms properly:

Investors are people who actually allow money to stay in one spot long enough for the money to perform work, i.e., produce a tangible product. This takes time. So only people who leave money in place for at least, at least six months, preferably a year should be classed as investors.

Day traders and program traders (this includes you, Greenbicman, as well as most of what Goldman-Sachs does) are most defintely not investors. They are gamblers. Nothing wrong with that. It takes skill to gamble well. But it ain't investing.

The wrong part comes from the way gambling profits are taxed: if I walk into a casino and ply my skills at the blackjack or poker tables and walk away up $15,000 in a day, it will be taxed as pure income. If I do the same thing in Wall Street's casino, that $15,000 is taxed at much kinder rates, if at all.

So if the two cases were treated equally and the behavior acknowledged for what it is, I'd have no problem with it. Unfortantely, they aren't. If you gamble every day on Wall Street, you're an investor; if you gamble everyday in the casino, you are a gambling addict with a problem, even if you win. Card gambling = bad, stock gambling = good....makes no sense, and is a lie.

To sum up, go ahead and let them gamble on Wall Street if you must, but don't call it investing, and tax it the same as other gambling profits.

[edit on 23-6-2009 by apacheman]

reply to post by apacheman


That is INCORRECT my friend

Short term trades are taxed at the highest rate of 33% I believe, future contracts traded on the short term are taxed slightly less because it is a futures contract and not an equity

EDIT: and on the margin you put down on the futures contracts you are actually purchasing PERFORMANCE BONDS that mimic the returns and are very hard to explain in of itself

[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by apacheman


Here is something that explains it all a little better

You will see short term equity traders PAY A VERY HEFTY TAX TO DO WHAT THEY DO and are not getting by with anything at all..

Thats why it is MUCH MUCH smarter to daytrade futures contracts.. but I will stop there


here you go

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Are you claiming that G-S and other "investment bankers" pay a 33% tax on aall their short term trades? I find that very difficult, if not impossible to believe. If that were the case, the IRS would be floating on money.

reply to post by apacheman


If they are equities, yes

Believe it or not lol - they pay their taxes brother - you can bet uncle ben makes sure of that

reply to post by apacheman


Total Income Before Interest Expenses (EBIT) (1)3.68 Bil. (2)13.62 Bil. (3)17.64 Bil. (4)12.44 Bil.

Total Net Income (1)-2.12 Bil. (2)845 Mil. (3)2.09 Bil. (4)1.51 Bil.



That was 12/9/6/4 2008 respectively for GS

EDIT:
This page explains further


[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

yep its all a scam. and yes the banks paid back there debt, but not back to the taxpayers. the funds where payed back into a slush fund for further draws in the future. so this guy that is acting like johnny stock broker definiately is either naive or loves big buisness raping the taxpayer|!

shucks give me 50billion dollars and i would make sure every stock member a 15 percent return for the next 15 years.

not hard to do when people are selling everything they own for pennies on the dollar just to make ends meat!

so keep thinking this way as your grandchildren will wonder why you were laughing about it all as they are now broke, homeless, clothless on the streets

Uncle Ben? You mean Ben Bernanke, formerly of Goldman-Sachs? Uncle Ben is G-S's benevolent uncle; he and Geithner aided and abetted this crisis. Both are criminals.

So tell me, what's the daily handle of equities on Wall Street? Does the Treasury recieve 33% of the profits generated on that? I don't see it and I've watched the market for the past twenty years. If a casino gambler hits it big, he's clipped for taxes before he ever walks out the door with what's left of his winnings. Does that daily clip happen on Wall Street? Or is the tax paid at the end of the year, after the accountants get a chance to offset the profits on paper, effectively reducing the rate to near zero?

And profit is profit, whether you are trading equities, futures, or money spreads, just like winings are winnings whether you play blackjack, poker, or pai-gow. It doesn't make a differnece in the casino, it shouldn't make a difference on Wall Street.

Btw, do you consider yourself a gambler or investor? And do you actually pay 33% on your profits, or do you have means of reducing that?

reply to post by tatersalad


IF firms have paid back tarp how is that "their bad"

Blame the govt. not the individual public firms that received these monies..

The firms have no say where the money goes when they pay it back.. if you are referring to me as "johnny stockbroker" you are an idiot as I am explaining the misinformation that most are conjuring

reply to post by apacheman


What are you talking about brother?

Uncle Ben has never worked for GS #1 - I do not know where you heard that..

Let me read the rest of your post and I will edit more

EDIT:

I dont trade right now because of $ problems (i used to daytrade for a living at 18) and FINRA regulations as to what I can trade bc of my broker dealer.
more to come..

EDIT:

At a casino you dont even have to report anything under a certain # - so the casino is A BETTER DEAL.. you are quite misinformed.. and when you sell something then the taxes occur as you can see in the quarterly statements from GS I posted above..

EDIT:

For accredited investors, yes, there is a way to minimize taxes by purchasing units to be a general partner for tax liability purposes where you can write off the losses so you have less of a tax liability by years end... this would all be explained better by a CFP, CRPC for these purposes and thats where I will end bc I cannot give advice on these forums

EDIT:

A futures contract is just a forward agreement of sorts you could say.. its just me saying ill bet the index stops at xx at xx time and another saying something different

In actuality what we are doing is just TRADING PERFORMANCE BONDS that MIMIC the returns.. you must understand all of this first lol...
[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

[edit on 23-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Only chump change is untaxed: over $10,000 gets clipped. And your chart proves my point: by allowing G-S to wait for the accountants to massage their numbers, and deducting bonuses as operating expenses, "income" is reduced to near nothing, avoiding taxes on the bulk of the profits.

You're right about BB's lack of direct connection to G-S, my bad.

reply to post by apacheman


Thats ok, you are prob. thinking of Paulson

ok let me ask you this..

out of retail investors.. how many make over 10,000 per trade..

ill clue you in about .001% lol

EBIT means your earnings BEFORE interest and taxes, MEANING thats what they MADE BEFORE interest and taxes not after.. so they are paying their taxes and at a very handsome rate infact