Joe Legal vs. Joe Illegal

Found this break down of the hidden cost of the problem. It gives a good idea of why we should not be considering maintaining the status quo. Lock the borders and deport those that are here and let them work their way back into the system like the legal system of immigration allows.


Subject: Joe Legal vs. Joe Illegal


Alive and growing in every state... Especially CA...
Joe Legal vs. Joe Illegal

Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically productive ...

You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Joe Illegal". Both families have 2 parents, 2 children and live in California.

"Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted.

"Joe Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year. Now take 30% away for state federal tax Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

Joe Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year Joe Illegal pays no taxes... Joe Illegal now has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00 per month $12,000.00 per year Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

Joe Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0..00 per year. Joe Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00

Joe Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare. Joe Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769..00

Joe Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy
Joe Illegal pays rent $500.00 per month $6,000.00 per year
Joe Illegal still has $25,200.00

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Joe Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Joe Illegal's children both attend the same school.
Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Joe Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch..

Joe Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Joe Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe paid for them and Joe did not pay.

Don't vote/support any politician that supports illegal aliens...

Its PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!

Zindo

[edit on 6/21/2009 by ZindoDoone]

Why work in a system the eliete made? It will just screw you over. Joe Illegal has the good idea.

By the way, why do we need to have borders anyway?

A neighbor of mine went to St. Joseph's Hospital ER a couple of days ago after she broke her foot. This was after 18:00 PST. The wait time was well over 6 hours! For an ER! I had an emergency with my stomach and had to wait about 4 hours in the same ER. The long wait times after hours are caused by illegals who us the ER as their personal doctor's office. They know that the hospital can't turn them away so they wait until night to bring sick children, older people and I even heard of a case where a man needed a quadruple bypass. To make matters worse there is no way the hospital can collect money from them so if you have health insurance you see larger premiums and copays. Something must be done.

Good OP!

Good job op. Now instead of bumbling through an explanation of why illegal immigration is bad, I can just point to this thread.
snf.

Exellent thread!!!! You often hear how the illegals are poor and only take jobs that American citizens won't take. Not true! I had worked in a factory that paid very well and there were plenty of illegals working there. They had nice vehicles, clothes, cable television, cell phones with camera, internet service, nice homes etc. The mothers that had children here, failed to mention that they lived with a boyfriend who made good wages. They were able to get cheap housing, food stamps, wic...

I am sick to death of how they manipulate the system. They are bold and dis-respectful and demanding, steal social security numbers, pay big bucks for fake papers etc. We have so many people who go through the proper channels, who respect the laws, learn the language etc. Here we are rewarding criminals. So often you see where someone was deported and they come right back again. So many times you see pedophiles and gang members and drunken drivers and thieves etc. Anyone can come here and it's ok? No it is not. There are so many people who need help and are denied because they make like 2.oo too much. Insane! We have laws but if you're an illegal, it doesn't apply.

The cost of keeping illegals is astounding!!!! Something needs to be done and soon!

the wealthy don't care about american workers doing better. they ultimately want the people working for them to make subsistance level income. in other words, just enough money to keep them alive and able to work. and since roosevelt, they have been slowly dismantling all benefits and protections for the common worker. we are devolving into a 3rd world country, and unfortunely there are not enough strong people to overcome the downward spiral.

happy fathers day!!!

My husband and I havn't had a job since last September.

reply to post by Night Star


I haven't been employed since April of 2007. I'm about to loose what I have left and if it weren't for a few friends, I would be really in trouble. I've sold all I can sell except for my Guns and my Computer and I ain't selling those items for obvious reasons. I work construction most of the time so my ability to work is greatly constricted by these illegals. Food service and the service industry as a whole is mostly out of my range also but I have tried to get part time there with no luck!

ZIndo

Great thread OP!


There are a few notes I'd like to make. First off, I don't know what the specifics are, or where you got your hypothetical data. I work with several illegals (at a golf course, I'm the bartender at the club, they do maintenance), and none of them make minimum wage. There might be a double standard for illegals in landscaping vs. illegals in construction, but usually as I understand it illegals are hired because of their willingness to work for extremely low wages.

Now, as for illegal immigrants having access to cars/nice clothes/cable tv, I can say for certain that this is true, although most that I meet tend to live very frugally, and they are by no means wealthy. However, I have to take exception to this, because despite their legal status, they are still human beings.

Now, while I am firmly against illegal immigration, I do not take the minuteman, "deport them all" stance, because in my honest opinion such a stance is inhumane and disrespectful to the struggles that many of these people face in their day-to-day lives. Nor will I take the "bleeding-heart liberal" stance and say that we should bend over backwards to support them, such as making Spanish an official second language (ala French in Canada), or by giving them welfare.

Rather, I think we should immediately facilitate the assimilation of illegal immigrants into legal American citizens, so that they can start paying taxes, have normal opportunities like everyone else, and most importantly begin to contribute to American society.

I know, having a balanced opinion is not usually the most popular option. In my experience most people don't even think of illegal immigrants as human. People on the other side of the spectrum want to see America turned in to Mexico 2.0 in order to support the influx of Hispanic Americans. It is in my honest opinion that if we completely did away with the "illegal" status, came after the people for taxes, gave them socials, gave them rights, and expected the same from them that we expect from all U.S. citizens, this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue anymore.

It's honestly the only good way to handle the situation. We track down illegal immigrants, say, "here's a social, you get paid minimum wage, and you're entitled to all the rights Americans have. In exchange, you pay taxes." If they don't like it, then we can deport them, without it being a transgression of human rights.

Originally posted by The Killah29

By the way, why do we need to have borders anyway?

Because we have countries, and unless you want the wealth spread around - we need borders.

If you want to continue living a life in luxury in the U.S or any other "advanced" nation - you should want borders to remain...

edit - Also to add, borders make countries. Countries offer different cultures and great vacation spots, along with a world that is more split. No borders will turn into one government. Is that good?

[edit on 21-6-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

Originally posted by The Killah29
Joe Illegal has the good idea.

Yeah, the same thought came to me too, ha. Lets renounce our citizenship and get all these legal and illegal monkeys off our back, ha. Only the legal slaves should be forced to pay jack'n taxes.

By the way, why do we need to have borders anyway?

Because, don't you know, god came down and said "Yous Americans are the other chosen ones, you get this big piece of land all for your own exclusive use, and to hell with them other illegal humons I put on Earth. Tell them second rate illegal humons to all get back to where YOU think they all belong .. in the back of the bus, or Mexico, or wherever YOU think they deserve to be and live! You're the elite ones, so party on Americanos, ha, you're the only people that god has chosen to have exclusive access to this piece of land!" Yup, says that right in the bible, the new and improved elitists one, now on sale at your favorite haunted house of bigotry and superstitions. Yup.

Aren't we a boat load of hypocrites, huh? America was founded by illegal aliens, but lets forget about that, remembering that makes us look like a bunch of FREAKING two-faced MORONS!

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Ok, let me tell you something here from first hand experience.

Not even as an legal immigrant (greencard) you are eligible for welfare. No medical coverage whatsoever. You have to take care of everything from your own pocket.
Also, legal immigrants pay the same taxes as citizens, however, they will never be eligible for medicare or social security etc....bottom line: illegal as well as legal immigrants have NO right to receive any benefits!

If you don't pay for your own health insurance (and without ssn you can't get any) you won't receive any treatments unless you were rolled over by a truck and are about to die on the street.....

And NO, an illegal immigrant doesn't receive Federal rent subsidiary, because he can't even rent a place without credit history and ssn!


So, it's not all black and white.....





[edit on 21-6-2009 by thegreatobserver]

reply to post by Night Star


Wait a minute, there, Night Star. Something about your post doesn't ring true to me. If you and the many "illegals" you mentioned all worked in a factory that paid very well, then the "illegals" must have paid the taxes that are automatically deducted from workers' wages. If what you say is true, then as such a good American hell bent on solving the problem, why didn't you report your employer to the feds? They would have swooped in, removed all the "illegals", and you would still have a well paying job. Were the "illegals" better employees than you were? Even if they were better employees, the feds would have moved in and removed them. A little explanation is in order here.


Most of the people who use hospital emergency rooks as their 1st tier health care plan are Americans who do not have and cannot afford health insurance.

[edit on 6/21/2009 by dubiousone]

the well to do have many ways to hold us down.Money is a ez one.hate too can hold us back. they made this system to keep us in place.

the system

Illegal aliens are a subproduct of the monetary system, they weren´t good where they came from and they won´t be good anywhere they move to. Even where they came from they surely had illegal aliens from worst places to live. Do you really believe someone want´s to leave all that he loves, knows as home and culture? No, it´s the drought of money that
"developed" (not by their own effort) countries do to third world countries leaving this hopless people to live misarable lives in their countries or move out to a "better" one dreaming to ha ve a "better life" anly to find out later than they miss everything they knew back home that wasn´t about money... This is one of the dumbest threads ever, and I say this based on its own conclusions, if you believe the problems are illegal aliens then you missed most of the picture...

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist

Originally posted by The Killah29

By the way, why do we need to have borders anyway?

Because we have countries, and unless you want the wealth spread around - we need borders.

That is one daft answr to a question bud.I think you are missing the points somewhat and ass for wanting the wealth spread around. Yes! gd idea.

kx

Originally posted by The Killah29
Why work in a system the eliete made? It will just screw you over. Joe Illegal has the good idea.

By the way, why do we need to have borders anyway?

Very good question! Can I come to your house and eat all your food stores tonight?

reply to post by thegreatobserver


Where are you living? I live right outside Lost Angeles and have had to go to the local County Hospital Emergency Room a couple of times. The wait time is anywhere between 8 hrs. and 24 hours, because 85% of the people there are Illegal Immigrants. When they are called up to give their information, they don't have any and often give fake names, fake S.S. numbers etc. When they finally call your name, it is likely to be in Spanish. I work with many illegals, who are good people, but they all have told me that this is normal procedure for them, they are used to waiting forever in line, as it would be the same circumstances in Mexico.


reply to post by dubiousone

The illegals do have good jobs sometimes but they do not pay taxes. On their W-2 form they simply claim 10 dependents. I hire these people and I know this is true. They use a fake S.S. number and don't even file taxes. They get all their money back in payroll taxes such as unemployment at the end of the year if they file. The spouses of these illegals most likely have one to four children on average and this makes them eligible for WIC, Food Stamps and Help with their rent. The local Social Security Office is packed full of illegal mothers and their children applying for these benefits, I've seen it. Often these illegal mom's just claim that they are single because there is no marriage record in this country. Their kids are citizens so they get the benefits.

This is the main reason California has gone broke. Believe it, I live it every day...





[edit on 21-6-2009 by Oatmeal]

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Great thread OP!

There might be a double standard for illegals in landscaping vs. illegals in construction, but usually as I understand it illegals are hired because of their willingness to work for extremely low wages.

Nor will I take the "bleeding-heart liberal" stance and say that we should bend over backwards to support them, such as making Spanish an official second language (ala French in Canada), or by giving them welfare.

There are many countries around the globe that have 2,3 or 4 official languages and functions with no problems. There is nothing wrong with countries that have more than one language so what is your problem with it.


Why do we need a second official language there is no first one. English is not an official language of the United States it is the defacto language of the US (language most people speak) and that can change at any time.

It has change many times over the years before the 13 colonies joined together. Many of the states were apart of different countries so the people there did not speak English such as in New York, Florida, Louisiana, Alaska, Hawaii over the years people began to speak English there until you have a majority English speaking pop.

If the US eventually has a population of half English and half Spanish speaking citizens than that is what the defacto languages should be English and Spanish.

As for Canada and Quebec, they should have stopped that when Quebec became part of Canada they did not so there problem. If Canada does not like it than give Quebec Independence like they want.



Immigrant should be like it is in other countries.

Can you benefit the country in some matter Yes or No. If yes you are allowed in and if no you are not allowed in the country.

For border problems the whole thing needs a darn make over. First you dont need to enter through Mexico to get to the US; all you have to do depending on why you are coming is go through Canada, Puerto Rico, USVI, Guam, American Samao etc.

Once you enter a US territory you can get most of the same services as you would within the US.

We don't do a thing to guard the Canadian border when i was in upper Maine me and friends walked back and forth across the US/Canadian border with no problem hundreds of times.

Many of the US territories in the pacific have huge immigrant problems because people from other countries go there to find work or better opportunities. If you have the money once in these terriroties you can hop on a plane and go from there straight to the US no asking about are you a US citizen.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by jatsc]

Hi everybody,

Don't want to derail the thread, seems many here are happy to knock 'illegals' but here is my opinion. Maybe others have also stated it but I only found 'drwizardphd' who I quote 'the only good way to handle the situation. We track down illegal immigrants, say, "here's a social, you get paid minimum wage, and you're entitled to all the rights Americans have. In exchange, you pay taxes." If they don't like it, then we can deport them, without it being a transgression of human rights.'

Seems fair, Joe Illegal becomes Joe Legal, the maths in the OP balance out, and the police could spend resources tracking down REAL criminals.

Bill Hicks quote 'why don't we take all money that we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.' I don't hate much, but I hate the idea that there are places in the world where I would be considered illegal. Murder is illegal, being alive is not.

Power and Equality,

PS, (private joke to drwizardphd) TAEASGJ!!!


[edit on 21-6-2009 by yyyyyyyyyy]