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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Not all money going into churches goes overseas.
My father is a retired pastor. He was a pastor of a small (not a mega church) for many many years. He worked 24/7 doing the job - trust me, he really did. The money the church received went to his salary - which was not much at all and the running of the church (electricity, water, etc)and various church functions. The church catered to the community a lot and helped run a "kitchen" for the poor. And I could go on with the amount of things done - that require money.
None of the money taken in went to any other organizations (IE The Vatican). It was all funnled back into the church in order for it to function. Not all churchs are rich and nor do all pastor's families live in wealth. My father made about 5 times the amount of money being a private business owner than he did as a pastor.
So before people start slamming all churches - maybe you should pick on individual ones. Because not all churches are crooked. But I agree that many many are - sadly.
With that said, I really am not sure if churches should be taxed or not. We tax churches, we might as well tax charities too - since many many churces function like charities.
Originally posted by gdeed
Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Not all money going into churches goes overseas.
I don't think religious people are all out to get us, in fact many churches are helpful to their communities and members. But they can still pay taxes, the rest of us do.
Originally posted by billybobh3
I'm torn on this issue.
On the one hand, I think it's totally bogus that religions get a pass on taxes, because I view them as nothing more than money-making machines, aka businesses. They provide a 'service' (brainwashing, 'salvation', etc) for a fee. Granted the fee is generally donated and at the discretion of the customer, but there is a basis through 'encouraged' donations.
On the other hand, you have to start messing with the Constitution in order to legalize taxation on religious institutions. I'm not too keen on that idea, since that would open the door far enough for other Constitutional changes to start taking place; other changes that could lead down roads that none of us really want to go.
It is truly, IMO, a double-edged sword.
Edit for grammar
[edit on 6/21/2009 by billybobh3]
Originally posted by tinfoilman
Mine, mine doesn't even have any actual employees anymore. We can't pay them. It's all volunteer and about to be shutdown and abandoned anyway because there's no money. Over 90 percent of the congregation is laid off right now. So, yeah, open up our lock box and smell the dust! lol. Why don't you try it on ash Wednesday and let me get a picture!
Originally posted by jjkenobi
ALL the money churches and charities receive is ALREADY TAXED. It is taxed HEAVILY by the govt before said generous person when they EARNED it and then decided to make a sacrifice and help out those less fortunate.
This thread is quite obviously full of people who do NO charitable giving whatsoever and probably believe the govt should be responsible for taking care of those in need instead of actually donating their own time and effort to help their fellow man.
I realize some will come back and say "not true I give" blah blah but I guess that's the beauty of the anonymous Internet.
Originally posted by gdeed
Originally posted by tinfoilman
Mine, mine doesn't even have any actual employees anymore. We can't pay them. It's all volunteer and about to be shutdown and abandoned anyway because there's no money. Over 90 percent of the congregation is laid off right now. So, yeah, open up our lock box and smell the dust! lol. Why don't you try it on ash Wednesday and let me get a picture!
As in any business there are always some that go out of business.
Throughout the US there are mega Churches, Synagogues, Temples for every tom dick and harry that calls themselves a religious enterprises, and Mosques galore.
In fact one of the few parts of the economy that is growing in these hard economic times are religious institutions, many of them taking advantage of the real estate bust and buying up property like no ones business.
The major landholders in American are Religious institutions and their numbers are growing fast.
Anyone can create a religious institution here in American and save a fortune in taxes. And many people do, taking advantage of the American tax payer who has to carry that ever increasing tax burden.
Originally posted by tinfoilman
But try to remember it's our hard work that really has value to the world. Not the government's gift certificates.
Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Not all money going into churches goes overseas.
My father is a retired pastor. He was a pastor of a small (not a mega church) for many many years. He worked 24/7 doing the job - trust me, he really did. The money the church received went to his salary - which was not much at all and the running of the church (electricity, water, etc)and various church functions. The church catered to the community a lot and helped run a "kitchen" for the poor. And I could go on with the amount of things done - that require money.
None of the money taken in went to any other organizations (IE The Vatican). It was all funnled back into the church in order for it to function. Not all churchs are rich and nor do all pastor's families live in wealth. My father made about 5 times the amount of money being a private business owner than he did as a pastor.
So before people start slamming all churches - maybe you should pick on individual ones. Because not all churches are crooked. But I agree that many many are - sadly.
With that said, I really am not sure if churches should be taxed or not. We tax churches, we might as well tax charities too - since many many churces function like charities.
[edit on 6/21/2009 by greeneyedleo]
Originally posted by fatdad
if they want to raise money they only have to do one thing..let me explain.. how many bricked up \ boarded up houses or business's do you see in your area ?..
where i live there are hundreds of them and some of them have be like that for nearly 30yrs...
who owns these property's ?. the government should tell them to either repair them or sell them onto someone who will...
this will create work for builders and revenue for the local tax office.. there's thousands of family's who need homes and yet we have thousands of property's left to rot...
if an owner cannot be found or refuses to repair or sell then the property should be seized and all repairs carried out be taken out of the price the government gets for it when sold and the reminder of the money given to the original owner...
all money leaving \ entering a country should be declared for export tax..if not then it should be seized..
if i have to pay import tax of something that costs me £25 pounds how can someone send out \ in £100's of pounds and not pay anything ?...
Originally posted by antar
My exhusband was also a PK of a small church in the Mid West. They were dirt poor but the priorities were the church and ministry not making money and profit. Those types of scenarios should NOT be taxed for any reason, and this is where the line gets muddied, in order to set limits for those that are in it for business only the smaller churches would be the first to suffer as they do not have banks backing them and are not subject to any of the funneling from government programs.
This is a good thread, but I have yet seen any good solutions presented which would offer more than an opportunity to either bash or defend.
Originally posted by antar
reply to post by gdeed
I know it is always the worst kind of tyranny. I feel so horrible for the whole conspiracy of religious cruelty from every level when it comes to ordinary good people who just want to do right and live life according to their conscious.
I can only hope that we can make it to a type one society like Michio Kaku talks about. At this point there is very little hope for a Golden Future for humanity.
Religions have played out their usefulness as they are, but our spiritual path cannot be underestimated either.
Originally posted by gdeed
Originally posted by tinfoilman
But try to remember it's our hard work that really has value to the world. Not the government's gift certificates.
Hey I'm not for taxes, but I'm also not for giving preference and multibillion dollar tax cuts and incentives to grow, to multibillion dollar power houses like the Religious institutions that have made a mess of this world we live in.
They don't need our tax dollars to propagate and create more tension around the world. America is a breeding ground for such things, or do you disagree?
Originally posted by Exuberant1
We should tax atheists moreso than anyone else.
There should be tax on those who do not donate to churches.
The atheists will complain - but they don't care about the poor that their money would help.
Perhaps atheists are the reason we built all those FEMA camps - they must be kept isolated from the rest of Christian North America.
We can probably hold 4-5 million of them. not enough; but it is a start...
I imagine that atheists would want to work to pay for the expenses they create for staying in the camps, so that should be a mandatory option for them to choose.
Taxing Churches...
priceless
[edit on 23-6-2009 by Exuberant1]