Flight 93 - Soft Shanksville soil and other nonsense...

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Couldnt have been that a building would be a little more resistant to fuel vapor than a stand of trees.....naw, that couldnt be it.

Come on Swampfox, don't be so obtuse.

So you want to say that the plane hit the ground, then the thousands of gallons of fuel remaining were thrown/sprayed 150 feet, THEN the fuel ignited when it came into contact with the trees? You're right. That's far more believable.

Or do you mean it ignited at the point of impact, and was then sprayed as burning fuel 150 feet to the trees? Because Val McClatchy's photo shows a smoke cloud with a tail, indicating one initial point of explosion, not a burning mass stretched over 150 feet. You say you were in the military - you'd be able to spot that.

Don't use diversion here - no-one is actually talking about the trees. We're talking about the point of impact/explosion (the same as what happened when Pan Am wings hit the ground), creating a fireball the same as at the Pentagon (because it was the same fuel, remember).

And I also believe that the ground would be more resistant to fuel than the trees, but also more resistant than the grass growing INSIDE the point of impact/explosion...

Rewey

Don't use diversion here - no-one is actually talking about the trees. We're talking about the point of impact/explosion (the same as what happened when Pan Am wings hit the ground), creating a fireball the same as at the Pentagon (because it was the same fuel, remember)

And you really cannot make a valid comparision between the three. Differing speeds, differing impact angles and different materials being struck.

Because Val McClatchy's photo shows a smoke cloud with a tail, indicating one initial point of explosion, not a burning mass stretched over 150 feet. You say you were in the military - you'd be able to spot that.

Ever watched an FAE bomb go off?

[edit on 3-7-2009 by Swampfox46_1999]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And you really cannot make a valid comparision between the three. Differing speeds, differing impact angles and different materials being struck.

You guys have been doing it all the way through this thread! "Look at this plane crash example, look at that plane example"... please...

Ever watched an FAE bomb go off?

Yes. Here's a picture of one.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8c69db45f25e.gif[/atsimg]

Looks to me like plenty of that ground would be burnt. The explosion seems to hug the ground to me...

Rewey

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And you really cannot make a valid comparision between the three. Differing speeds, differing impact angles and different materials being struck.

For the love of God Swampfox...How many times have 'other' plane crashes have been referenced in in this thread, and other 911 threads by OS supporters?? I'm pretty sure some OS supporter has done this in every single thread related to Shanksville or the Pentagon.

Can we officially use your quote in every 9/11 thread to wave off any and all accounts of OS supporters using other plane crashes to prove points, because "...you really cannot make a valid comparison between the three. Differing speeds, differing impact angles and different materials being struck...? That statement by you is something that many "Truthers" have said time and time again when faced with this kind of stuff, and yet they get slammed for it.

Ever watched an FAE bomb go off?

But now its gets really good. Swampfox, we aren't talking about an FEA bomb going off. You JUST SAID we can't campare those two crashes because of differing circumstances, but now, once again, we will use the explosion of the plane to compare to an FEA bomb??

We've kept it cool in here so far I'd say, but you are showing some real ignorance in this post.

reply to post by Rewey


I notice this thread is quite a few pages long with the usual bickering back and forth. The issue isn't me, it isn't the mythical "disinfo agent", it isn't fine shades of gray, 'pseudo-skeptics' and the battle certainly isn't over JREF'ers.

We are almost eight years past the event. I am asking the same thing I was roughly a year ago. Do you, or don't you possess the convictions of your beliefs? Are you (the royal you) going to take some action beyond the Internet, or not?

Contrast the protesters in Iran who are literally being killed for their beliefs, protesting in the streets versus the so-called 'truth movement'. They clearly possess the convictions of their beliefs.

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar


What do you expect the truth movement to do? They are already labeled low level terrorist by the criminals in Washington. If the few hundred thousand truthers did go and protest the military would be order to gun them down in the streets. The criminals in our government who pulled off 911, will not allow the truth movement to exposes them.
The rest of the population will go along with this ploy of having our citizen’s murder in cold blood probably live on television. The media will push this agenda of 911 truthers being terrorists, because we already know the government has complete control of our media. Most of the American populations are brainwash from the propaganda lies of television and believe the OS and really do not know any better.

So what are we to do? The only thing we can do is educate people of the truth and that will take years, by the time, we have the whole Nation convinced, the government criminals will probably be dead from old age and even then, there will be no justice.
So, what is the point anyway, this great country has been taken over by a criminal cartel in Washington, and they own the government, and congress. These very people are so above the laws of the land they own you, and me. They are the blood sucking parasites that we call the Federal Reserve. They have forced Congress to pass every law to benefit them so they can have complete control of our financial Institutions with very little oversight. Now you all know who are the true owners of American are, and guess what? We are not part of their club , only the big corporations are, and they don’t care about you or me, or America only what’s good for them.


[edit on 4-7-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme
What do you expect the truth movement to do? They are already labeled low level terrorist by the criminals in Washington.

Exactly. Any form of dissident protest will be under extreme scrutiny, perhaps worse, in the not so distant future.

Corruption exists in every level of government in every country. Corruption exists in every legal/justice system, in every different type of lawcourt.

'Fair' rarely exists, unless it can be paid for.

'Justice' is mostly seen to be done if the guilty party is expendable or already set up to be a scapegoat.

The 'truth' almost never surfaces. It's not profitable to expose the truth.

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
reply to post by Rewey

 

We are almost eight years past the event.

Hate to point this out to you, but have a look at how long the 'truth' about the US involvement in other wars has taken to come out? Before it's FINALLY admitted as truth. Decades.

The truth about the warnings before the sinking of the Lusitania, whilst the US claimed they had no knowledge about German uboats, the truth about the knowledge of the impending Pearl Harbour attack, and the response of the US government to just let it happen, the truth about the USS Liberty attack by Israel. The truth about US operations in Loas and Cambodia during Vietnam, the truth about the US involvement with Afghanistan against the Soviets, the truth about the US involvement with weapons during the Iran contra scandal...

Seriously... has there EVER been a war that the US has EVER been just dragged into without any prior involvement or prior knowledge that they were about to be attacked and therefore have their involvement and declaration of war justified?

A hundred years of this stuff going on, and you think there was not at LEAST prior knowledge (and therefore complicity) on this one? I find that a truly naive way of thinking. Do you really think the world believes that the 'greatest super power on Earth' was bamboozled by guys living in caves half a world away?

Rewey

reply to post by P1DrummerBoy


You might want to reread what started that part of the conversation in regards to the actions of the fireball.

I read the responses and I hear you loud and clear.

This year, just like last, you don't posses the convictions of your professed beliefs. No, you're not willing to risk anything to expose what you believe to be the mass murder of over three thousand of our own citizens, by our own government.

The contrast between the protesters in Iran and the so-called 'truth movement' is one of high definition. We have one group literally being gunned down for their beliefs a few days after the event that brought them into the streets and another group echoing the coming super storm of truth back and forth to each other on Internet forums nearly eight years after the event.

You have a right to your opinion, no matter what it may be; make no mistake about that. My personal belief is you (the royal you) treat your accusations as something of an entertainment outlet and no, you're not going to get off your ass and actually do something.

I'll check back in a year.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by SlightlyAbovePar]

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar

You have a right to your opinion, no matter what it may be; make no mistake about that. My personal belief is you (the royal you) treat your accusations as something of an entertainment outlet and no, you're not going to get off your ass and actually do something.

It is obviously clear that you want to be “entertain” by the truth movement getting their heads blown off for protesting, and being arrested and held as a terrorist. We are not going to throw our lives away over a handful of government criminals who will stop at nothing to shut us up.

Why don’t you go out, protest, and entertain us eh. As far as the Iran protesters and those poor people who die for voicing their opinions and rage against an evil government, what good did it do anyway? The old Iranian president who stole the elections did what we expected him to do, to get his people and the county under his control again he just order them shot dead or arrested then be shot dead, or whatever, it doesn’t make any different anyway. So, do not think for a minute our government would not resort to doing the same. Evil is, what evil does. I just hope to God that the day comes when our military is order to shoot protester in the streets for trying to exercise their constitutional rights to remove a dictatorial, corrupt, treasonable, administration that I am hopefully dead. What I do know now, is this country is steadily sliding down hill fast and most of our government is becoming more and more corrupt and it is showing. This will eventually lead to a socializes government, which I see us heading that way anyway.

I'll check back in a year.

Why bother you will not see any change.





[edit on 5-7-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by Rewey

You guys have been doing it all the way through this thread! "Look at this plane crash example, look at that plane example"... please...

Im sorry.....did I miss someone saying that the explosions, fireballs generated and the smoke trails were the same? I dont think so....

Can we officially use your quote in every 9/11 thread to wave off any and all accounts of OS supporters using other plane crashes to prove points, because "...you really cannot make a valid comparison between the three. Differing speeds, differing impact angles and different materials being struck...?

Only in situations when someone is claiming that the dispersed fuel and resulting explosion will act the same way no matter what. That would be the only time it would apply. He is attempting to say that a plane hitting a building and a plane hitting the ground would have explosions that looked the same. Sorry, that wont happen.

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
Contrast the protesters in Iran who are literally being killed for their beliefs, protesting in the streets versus the so-called 'truth movement'. They clearly possess the convictions of their beliefs.

Excellent point. I wonder how many of the Iranian protesters have on-line stores where you can buy a a cute little sexy sleep-burka with "Amadinijad Stole The Election!" emblazoned on it or a fashionable ball cap with similar stenciling. Perhaps they are too busy having on-line money-raising efforts so they can build a new "home office" in their basement.

Again, excellent point. I've asked this of the Troothers before - if they had the power of their own convictions and beliefs. To put it succinctly, no.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by trebor451]

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
Contrast the protesters in Iran who are literally being killed for their beliefs, protesting in the streets versus the so-called 'truth movement'. They clearly possess the convictions of their beliefs.

Excellent point. Again, excellent point. I've asked this of the Troothers before - if they had the power of their own convictions and beliefs. To put it succinctly, no.

You guys just don't get it, do you?

The only thing that varies between the policing in the US and the alleged policing in Iran is that the Iranian 'national guard' actually shoot back.

If the truth movement held protests and rallies, they would march through the streets, the police would set up cordons for them, they'd get to the end of the day with no shots fired. Even if the people began rioting, the police or national guard would not use firearms against people?

Do you know why? Because then it becomes an immortalised incident. Do you remember the last time it happened? I'll give you a hint. It was on a college campus, as a protest to the Vietnam War, and a couple of people were shot dead. That event has been immortalised in the national psyche as a Government suppressing free speech. Do you think they'd ever do that again?

Of course not. They'll let the protesters march, wave banners, then a day later it will all be forgotten about. The ONLY THING THAT HAS GOT THE IRANIAN PROTESTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL NEWS IS THAT THEIR NATIONAL GUARD USED LETHAL FORCE. That's simply not going to happen in the US.

AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT? It didn't change anything in Iran either. Both the Ayatollah and the Presidental Corps say THE INITIAL VOTE COUNT IS GOING TO STAND.

So what's the difference? Maybe the only difference is that we're able to see the corruption, but realise there's little in the modern civilised world that can be done...

Originally posted by Rewey
Hate to point this out to you, but have a look at how long the 'truth' about the US involvement in other wars has taken to come out? Before it's FINALLY admitted as truth. Decades.

Hey guys,

This comment got me thinking, so I've started another thread to examine just this topic. I'd love for you all to drop by and add more examples...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Rewey

Hi all,

Sorry it's taken so long, but the revised report should be ready by tonight. I'll let you know...

Rewey