Take a look at this ad that was shoved through my front door this morning

reply to post by Majestic23


Well, they seem to be a lot like the Catholic church, when it comes to covering up allegations of child abuse. I didn't get this from an ex-JW website, I saw it first hand. No, I wasn't the victim, but I knew them, and the way the situation was handled was atrocious.

I really don't want to get into a bashing session, or the reasons why I left. I am largely suspicious of and opposed to all forms of organized religion, so it's much easier for me to mention the positive things - that set them apart from other religions than it is to get into all the reasons I disagree with or distrust them.

And I'm sorry, but outright dismissal of ex-JW websites is just not "denying ignorance". These are people who have had a bad experience and are using their voice to speak out about it. Oh, I'm sure plenty of them have agendas of their own, and are telling lies, but hopefully if you're on ATS then you've learned to read things with a critical frame of mind and can draw a rational conclusion about what you read.

Please do not U2U me about this subject.

Originally posted by Majestic23
I was talking to a JW and I didnt make anything of it at the time but she mentioned going to their printworks. She talked about them as though they werent part of their system. Of course I didnt exepect everyone that works in such a massive factory to be JW but as far as I could assertain none of the people there were JW.

the "branches" (what you call "printworks") print only literature for JW's.

they are run and operated by JW's. in fact the standard for being accepted to serve there is high. a friend of mine got accepted to work at the branch in london.

the branch facilities are run and operated by volunteers. they receive housing and all meals are provided for them. they also receive an allowance of 22 pounds a week for personal expenses.

whoever said that the branches are run by non-witnesses is just plain lying.

all branches give free tours for everyone. (i did one when i accompanied my friend to london)

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Majestic23
I was talking to a JW and I didnt make anything of it at the time but she mentioned going to their printworks. She talked about them as though they werent part of their system. Of course I didnt exepect everyone that works in such a massive factory to be JW but as far as I could assertain none of the people there were JW.

the "branches" (what you call "printworks") print only literature for JW's.

they are run and operated by JW's. in fact the standard for being accepted to serve there is high. a friend of mine got accepted to work at the branch in london.

the branch facilities are run and operated by volunteers. they receive housing and all meals are provided for them. they also receive an allowance of 22 pounds a week for personal expenses.

whoever said that the branches are run by non-witnesses is just plain lying.

all branches give free tours for everyone. (i did one when i accompanied my friend to london)

As far as I know, to work in the facilities - to be 'accepted into Bethel' - one must be - not just a practicing JW - but an exemplary member, one able to meet certain standards not expected of regular members.

This is separate from what I said about the owners of the corporation. From what I've been able to gather - these people ARE NOT JEHOVAH's WITNESSES. If I am wrong about this, I am not beyond being shown as much.

There was mention earlier in the thread about people working in the printing plant that were not members. I do not think this is accurate. Yes, the plant is huge. But what the poster above mentioned sounds like what I understand; they have no shortage of people applying for what is considered an esteemed position in the organization, and the ones that meet the criteria are accepted.

As far as I know, NO ONE in the organization is "profiting" to the tune of anything more that room and board.

reply to post by Majestic23


Hello Majestic!

Our world wide work is entirely supported by voluntary donations, and voluntary "man hours". And for the most part, we build our own kingdom halls and assembly halls. And as far as I know, the print factories are not used to print or publish any other literature, only those produced by Jehovah's Witnesses.

reply to post by miriam0566


Your volcano comment was in response to a point raised about children been exposed to “believing the world is truly over”

My point was that volcanos are real, but I doubt parents would trouble their children with the volcano problem.

But exposing children to “believing the world is truly over” is going to have detrimental effects to children’s minds

In fact the only reason parents would have for exposing children to “believing the world is truly over” is if the parents want the children to uncritically accept the parents beliefs and the parents has no concern about the detrimental effects to children’s minds.

So this religion started in the late 1870's by CT Russell. I don't understand, I was told that it was one of the oldest religions in the world by several members attending a convention. I am reading that the actual JW was not even formed until after CT Russell's death (in 1931).

see link: en.wikipedia.org...

I'm sorry, but that reminds me a bit of the one where the guy looks in a hat, and only he can 'see' what it is telling them, I believe that is Mormon, Joseph Smith started that one, or Scientology (LRon Hubbard) which is apparently older than JW. I prefer to let the bible, the little bit that we have left of it anyway, and my heart to guide me. I know God is there, he has worked miracles in my life, without having to join any group.

What is appealing about a religion that is relatively new, what draws you and and makes you decided that even though it has not been around very long, and was made up by a man in the 1800's , that it is going to be the chosen religion, and that only it's members will include the 144,000?

I really want to know, I am not being sarcastic, I want to be convinced that there is a reason to believe this.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by space cadet]

I've seen this add just about every year...they come up to your door to see you so they leave it at your door.

The text may be unappealing, but its to get the point accross of what this huge convention type thing is all about.
They have it every year and i hear more and more are there with each year. All meeting together in the huge stadium for I think what is a 3 day sermon.

I personally have nothing against Jehovah witnesses they're doing what they feel is right. Jesus in his time went door to door to spread the word of his father. And god wants you to spread his word to anyone that will listen and that why they do this. To be rude and try to make them feel your possessed or some crap is taking it too far...thats only making you a bad person...and if you truly love God, you think this would be something he would appreciate ? But i dont try to shame others, they can do as they please at any time. I just think its easier to answer the door , take their books, and say your either not interested or part of another religion, they understand.

Originally posted by holywar
reply to post by Majestic23

 

Hello Majestic!

Our world wide work is entirely supported by voluntary donations, and voluntary "man hours". And for the most part, we build our own kingdom halls and assembly halls. And as far as I know, the print factories are not used to print or publish any other literature, only those produced by Jehovah's Witnesses.

very true i know , all based on volunteering.
they don't take up collections to be used in their kingdom halls.
Or for anything else

as a kid i went to church and bible studies and the one thing i never liked or understood was the collection plates...and ive always wondered "can you be sure they're going for what they say they are? "

Who wants to live in heaven anyway....cold, boring and there is only so much cream cheese one can consume

I think its a great idea that God steps in and hits the reset button for earth to restore it to its natural state as Jehovah's witness believe. A Paradise garden as was the original intention as described in Genesis.

The problem is man wants to do it there way not Gods way and Satan works hard to keep it that way. We all know the earth desperately needs a good cleansing and its future at the hands of mans rule looks very very bleak. Who can argue that. You feel it, everyone senses it. Thats why we come to ATS looking for answers or following the collapse of mankind.

Why not teach your children that the pain caused by sickness, wickedness, war, genocide, rape,depression greed etc. etc. will come to an end as the bible foretells. People seem to have no problem telling there children there is a man that comes down the chimney to bring presents. Definitely not in the bible.

It will be the end of the world as we know it.......but not the end of the earth.

reply to post by The Great Day


well said!

I have a 4 year old and an almost 3 year old... and they can't wait for that day.

They understand what planets are because I show them pictures of our galaxy. They understand that our planet looks different from the rest because God made planet earth to be our home. They understand that soon, God will send his powerful son to "take away all bad and sad things", they understand that very soon, the whole planet will be a beautiful paradise, and that everybody will be happy. They love the part about all the animals being friendly with us. What a blessing to know such simple and common sense truths!

Reset button indeed.

Another convention weekend, and this time I do see many many children attending this time. This is another group of extremely nice folks, I have only met one who was not among the whole group.

But I have been approached again this time by 7 different members now. I recieved literature on JW, in consideration, but I just disagree with so much of it, it is not for me. I haven't seen a bible yet, just those little yellow books and the 'reasoning' book. Doesn't JW use the King James Bible, and if not what bible do they use?

reply to post by space cadet


NEW WORLD TRANSLATION

But if your looking for a good source for multiple versions of the bible.

My favorite
bible.cc...

reply to post by space cadet

...but that reminds me a bit of the one where the guy looks in a hat, and only he can 'see' what it is telling them, I believe that is Mormon, Joseph Smith started that one...

Here is the true story of the Mormans. Just about as whack as all the other "religions"...

www.southparkstudios.com...


"Dumb, da-dumb, dumb, dumb...." LOL! ::

South Park, spot on as always!


And for "Scientology", their esteemed spokesman:
www.southparkstudios.com...


Oh! AND this is what "Scientology" actually believe. (To think they have tax-exempt status! Completely outrageous!)
www.southparkstudios.com...



[edit on 6/27/0909 by weedwhacker]

I saw those episodes too, funny thing about Southpark, no matter how silly it gets, there is always an agenda to expose or just plain out dog someone or something, and most of the time they hit the nail on the head. Killer show though, I love those boys!

Religion using fear to grow the flock? Never!

Originally posted by miriam0566
the branch facilities are run and operated by volunteers. they receive housing and all meals are provided for them. they also receive an allowance of 22 pounds a week for personal expenses.

A grand a year? Thats just absurd. Even with food and board thats just unworkable nowadays.

Thanks for you answers Teratoma and Holywar.

Can I ask you guys why the JWs do not approach the astral planes and altered states of consciousness? Also may I ask how it is JWs accept that necromancy exists, and yet believe that everyone who dies is in effect sleeping?

Also in the death/slumber do souls exist as such, are they experiencing anything, dreams etc...?

Originally posted by Majestic23
A grand a year? Thats just absurd. Even with food and board thats just unworkable nowadays.

yeah, its not much, but then again going to bethel is not about making money.

Can I ask you guys why the JWs do not approach the astral planes and altered states of consciousness?

not sure i understand the question

Also may I ask how it is JWs accept that necromancy exists, and yet believe that everyone who dies is in effect sleeping?

not too sure about this one either but ill attempt.

if you wanted to talk to me on the phone, how hard would it be for someone to pretend to be me? forms of divination and spiritism or communicating with the spirit realm give now clear way of telling you WHO you are talking to. you may think you are talking to someone who died, but what to say that the spirit is not some demon imitating the person who died?

Also in the death/slumber do souls exist as such, are they experiencing anything, dreams etc...?

in short, no. (eccl 9:5,10)

reply to post by miriam0566


MIriam, let me ask, the answers you have just given, what is the source that has made you arrive at this explaination?

I have now read the book of reasoning, I find it to be very very offensive to every religion other than JW, but even more upsetting is that it is a book that teaches you what to say, not the 'right' answers according to GOD, but the answers to questions anyone might have about JW, or why not to be one. But the answers do not come from the bible. What one thing jumped out at you and made you become JW? What was the appeal?

Originally posted by space cadet
MIriam, let me ask, the answers you have just given, what is the source that has made you arrive at this explaination?

may i ask which explanation? since i gave several.

I have now read the book of reasoning, I find it to be very very offensive to every religion other than JW, but even more upsetting is that it is a book that teaches you what to say, not the 'right' answers according to GOD, but the answers to questions anyone might have about JW, or why not to be one. But the answers do not come from the bible.

the reasoning book is a tool designed to help those who are not skilled talkers. since preaching is an important part of a JW's life, it makes sense that a book would be designed that would help a christian explain his beliefs.

however, your claim that the answers do not come from the bible is unfounded. if you look at the book you will see that the scriptures hold a real presence on the pages. the arguments and statements are ALL back up with scriptures. so im not sure why you are saying that

What one thing jumped out at you and made you become JW? What was the appeal?

it wasnt one thing, it was several. (im not a JW, but i am studying)

the main thing however is that JW's let the bible dictate doctrine, not let doctrine dictate the bible.

a good example of this is the deity of christ. most churchs twist some key scriptures in order to make the trinity "fit", while the context obviously points to jesus as being god's son, firstborn, beloved, begotten, separate.

Jw's read those passages with an honest logical view and realized, hey, jesus is not god. even though this is blasphemous to other christians.

this is why i respect them. in my years of searching and personal research of the bible, i havent found a christian organization as adamant about making sure they follow the bible as the JW's. even when they mess up and realize they got it wrong, they correct it, which is something you NEVER see in the church.

Originally posted by miriam0566
not sure i understand the question

I implore you to do some research concerning the astral planes , the vibrational matrix etc.... It makes me very suspicious that the JWs make little or no effort to understand the nature of reality. God would not want to deny us knowledge would he?

What I am really getting that is that the JWs make a distinction between our souls and God, being quite separate entities. Making God something external, sure they say "God is in all of us" etc... but do they actually have any gnosis of this? It does not appear so to me.

Originally posted by miriam0566
if you wanted to talk to me on the phone, how hard would it be for someone to pretend to be me? forms of divination and spiritism or communicating with the spirit realm give now clear way of telling you WHO you are talking to. you may think you are talking to someone who died, but what to say that the spirit is not some demon imitating the person who died?

But what I am saying is that JWs believe all souls in the afterlife are asleep and do not even exist as such. By your logic this would mean EVERY single contact from the afterlife realised on Earth is from demonic entities. Iam sure my higher self can tell the differance between my ansestors and demons.

So you see how I get the picture that the JWs propigate a mindset which inhibits people from gaining any real knowledge.


[edit on 5-7-2009 by Majestic23]