A Warning To All ATS Members

Originally posted by Electro38
I live in NY, just about 30 minutes from Manhattan. I, nor anyone I know has seen any evidence of any economic trouble, at all.

This is strange because weren't we already having an economic crash?

Last summer we knew a couple of people who lost their jobs, one guy worked for DHL and the other for Bear Sterns. But they both quickly and seamlessly found other work.

Everyone we know has money, are still buying things and no one has lost their homes. Where was this crash? And now there's going to be another invisible economic crash?

Count yourself lucky. I am not sure why your area has been shielded, but the problem is certainly getting worse!

There are area's of the country where entire neighborhoods are emptying out. Small ghost towns forming. In my neighborhood alone, we have had at least 5 foreclosures, and those homes sold $50k to $100k less than the average for the area, so no one is able to sell their homes for what they owe.

I am in Florida, but a friend in Colorado (who is a pastor) just reached an agreement with his bank to "short-sell" his home for $225K. He bought it several years ago for $330K. He is movnig in with friends for the time being!

This all hit the fan when gas prices were $4-$5 gallon. People complained, but they still bought. They charged it to credit cards, and continued to live the same lifestyle. When the credit cards became maxed out, then we stopped buying, and then the prices came down. But the result was millions of people who are now maxed out on credit, and struggling to pay the bills. The housing bubble burst, and made it impossible to sell or refinance to pay off credit card debt. So now everyone is stuck with what they've got! As foreclosures and bankruptcies take their tolls, the banking and credit industry dry up, the job market tumbles because people aren't buying stuff.

It is all a desperately needed 'adjustment,' because the entire country was living above its means. Now we will live below our means for awhile, and hopefully learn a good lesson from it!

reply to post by Tentickles


Although I read some of this thread, I didn't read all of it, so I apologize if someone has already posted the article links below.

I just found these today, June 19, about the unemployment rate:

Jobless Rate Rises In Nearly All States

Florida's Unemployment Rate Reaches 10.2 Percent

NC Jobless Rate Grows

Unemployment Rate Soars To 12.1 Percent, Greenville SC Online

Sad, very sad. I was really hoping things WERE going to get better by now.

Originally posted by Electro38
I live in NY, just about 30 minutes from Manhattan. I, nor anyone I know has seen any evidence of any economic trouble, at all.

This is strange because weren't we already having an economic crash?

Last summer we knew a couple of people who lost their jobs, one guy worked for DHL and the other for Bear Sterns. But they both quickly and seamlessly found other work.

Everyone we know has money, are still buying things and no one has lost their homes. Where was this crash? And now there's going to be another invisible economic crash?

BULLY for you and your friends!!

FYI, that's where the bailout money went...Please enjoy the party on our tax dollars while it lasts...

I travel extensively throughout this country....and I'm talking to real live people....for the vast majority of them, things are not so peachy..

[edit on 19-6-2009 by RolandBrichter]

reply to post by getreadyalready


That my friend is basically a definition of the economic term 'Discipline'.

This is the fundamental flaw of capitalism - and especially the American version of it. A capitalist market economy with low levels of economic 'discipline', is like a kiddy who has stolen the cookie jar. He will eat and eat and eat, until he makes himself sick.

The American administrations of the past decade and a half have taken an extremely laissez faire attitude to fiscal control. E.g. They've been lining their pockets with kick-backs from the banks / insurers / miners / weapons contractors etc etc for low taxes and easy terms & conditions. That's how the U.S. and others like it roll. Why do you think the social elite are so rich? The wealth divide in the U.S. and Britain and other places are at their largest EVER.

The problem is (as we all know with obesity) there's a price to being a FAT CAT. You keep abusing your system, and eventually it will quit on you. It very nearly happened in the 20's and 30's, now it's going to happen again.

I've been keeping a close eye on things and I've noticed two things. Two CLASSIC signs of the SHTF. Consolidation - Mergers and acquisitions, mainly due to liquidation are at an all time high indicating a serious collapse in the 'wealth making' framework we all use. Commodity Prices - When money starts looking like it's going to lose it's value, people realise their assets with gold, platinum and other valuable commodities. As you can see, the prices are all through the roof.

Also, if you look at the elasticity of the dollar at the moment (the world currency by proxy), you'll notice some interesting things. The real terms price of oil has collapsed - yet fuel prices are extremely high. Why is this? Margins? 'Wholesale Market' Distortion? No. Because oil is traded in DOLLARS, it inherits some of the characteristics of Dollars. The Dollar is weak, so oil is weak. The real terms value of oil is actually still quite high.

Everyone knows the Dollar is going to die, and be replaced by the Amero. So buying the Dollar Bonds at the moment equates signing a contract saying "I'm happy to renegotiate the loan in the future, on the FEDERAL RESERVES TERMS". As the issuer of the new Amero, this would work massively in their favour. Why do you think China and other countries are holding off from the supposed great deal being offered to them? IF they do buy the bonds, they would be buying a currency that in the near future will be worthless. The Amero will replace it, and be re-negotiated at a rate that suits the FED. Bankrupting many foreign governments, and causing a massive shift in economic power back to the FED.

Thankyou, and goodnight. I'll be here all week.

The Para

reply to post by Rockpuck


Yeah, I dont remember the name either, so I am at a loss.

But at the time it was impressive, either way I have nothing to gain by stirring the pot or whatever.

I didnt say the econ. would turn around.. I just said we would see positive GDP by the end of this year...

I think we are somewhere near the bottom though realistically if we still want to keep the USA the USA

reply to post by RolandBrichter


These are not salesmen.

It was a lobbyist that worked for a private capital firm.

I am at a loss for the firm.

Believe what you want man, Im just telling you how I heard it.

Like I said, I also tend to believe them, because he said that Obama would just repeal the Bush tax's and not raise them.

Then that is exactly what happened about 4 months later in a press conference that I saw. So I would say he prob. knows exactly what he is talking about.

Everybody is saying the same thing, but we are all separated by our desire to have a unified label.

What I mean is, what does it matter if you believe in:

1. the NWO
2. Planet X
3. the Anti-Christ
4. The return of Christ
5. The Illuminati
6. The Rapture
7. The Powers that Be
8. The Bilderberg Group
9. "2012"

All of the above end up having the SAME outcome: destruction, famine, economic collapse, chaos, civil unrest....etc.

If we would all stop fighting about which label is the correct one, we would realize that we are all predicting the same outcome -- which is really what's important.

Originally posted by RolandBrichter

Originally posted by Electro38
I live in NY, just about 30 minutes from Manhattan. I, nor anyone I know has seen any evidence of any economic trouble, at all.

This is strange because weren't we already having an economic crash?

Last summer we knew a couple of people who lost their jobs, one guy worked for DHL and the other for Bear Sterns. But they both quickly and seamlessly found other work.

Everyone we know has money, are still buying things and no one has lost their homes. Where was this crash? And now there's going to be another invisible economic crash?

BULLY for you and your friends!!

FYI, that's where the bailout money went...Please enjoy the party on our tax dollars while it lasts...

I travel extensively throughout this country....and I'm talking to real live people....for the vast majority of them, things are not so peachy..

[edit on 19-6-2009 by RolandBrichter]

Good, I hope you travelled through my home town of Darke County Ohio... a booming place until the raliroads gave way to the highways... it's a dying place ever since then.... and now it's even worse...

Guess what... there are places which are going gangbusters right now... and it's not from bailout money... it's from good old fashioned American Ingenuity...

Some places will die off, others will take off... it's how the American Economy works and has for a couple hundred years...

Originally posted by lpowell0627
Everybody is saying the same thing, but we are all separated by our desire to have a unified label.

What I mean is, what does it matter if you believe in:

1. the NWO
2. Planet X
3. the Anti-Christ
4. The return of Christ
5. The Illuminati
6. The Rapture
7. The Powers that Be
8. The Bilderberg Group
9. "2012"

All of the above end up having the SAME outcome: destruction, famine, economic collapse, chaos, civil unrest....etc.

If we would all stop fighting about which label is the correct one, we would realize that we are all predicting the same outcome -- which is really what's important.

Actually you would realize that all of the above are filled with fear mongers with no real sense of identity....

Hence the requirement for labels....

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Actually you would realize that all of the above are filled with fear mongers with no real sense of identity....

Hence the requirement for labels....

At what point do you concede that fear-mongering = reality?

Edit to fix quote.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by lpowell0627]

reply to post by lpowell0627


lol... you think that fear-mongering can equal reality?

If it were reality there would be no need for mongering.... :-)

You don't have to persuade people of reality... they live in it...

Now most all of our realities are formed completely in our subjective sphere of awareness and is not even a proper representation of what exists in the objective sphere...

What you have here is nothing more than a list of people who suffer from exemplary dualism





[edit on 19-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
I beg to disagree with the OP. The only areas of the economy that are failing are those in which the central government has interfered in the past, a solid indication that our increasingly socialist government has no idea of what it's doing when it comes to free market capitalism.

I think you are actually proving this thread to be true. You claim that the only areas that are failing are the ones that the gov't is involved in. While you're right, I hope you realize that there is not much left that the gov't ISN'T involved in.

The USA is a capitalist nation, built its superpower status on capitalism. That nation cannot survive with socialists interfering to micromanage and regulate the markets.

Which is exactly what they are doing.

There are areas of business that remain untouched by this socialist-wrought "recession" — the pharmaceutical industry, for example, and its associated industries are enjoying some rather bullish returns, and the graph is still tracking upward for the foreseeable future.

I mean, damn, my wife contracts for the pharmaceutical industry and she's getting a 35% bonus this year — that's 35% of her yearly income, in one check, as a bonus. We haven't felt the so-called recession at all.

I'm happy for you. Truly. But this begs the question: What do you think will happen once Obama's healthcare overhaul goes through???

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Actually, in my little world of my awareness I don't think it is fear mongering. I think it's reality.

But I respect your opinion and we can agree to simply disagree.

Originally posted by SkepticPerhaps
Just because you aren't feeling it doesn't mean it isn't happening, enjoy your comfort, but don't tell us that the economy isn't failing.

Don't you tell me that it is failing, based on a few hysterical observations. As I said earlier, the only areas of the economy that are failing are those areas where we have seen government interference.

This is not indicative of an across-the-board economic collapse, but it is indicative of government intervention being the cause of collapse.

I am telling you that our domestic economy is not failing on its own. I am telling you that our domestic economy can and will recover when our incompetent socialist government STOPS trying to "fix" that which is not broken.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Actually, in my little world of my awareness I don't think it is fear mongering. I think it's reality.

But I respect your opinion and we can agree to simply disagree.

Fair enough....

Originally posted by contemplator
Economy in collapse? Down the street from me there is a doggie day spa with Ferraris parked out front

Which do you think they will eat first - their doggies or their Ferrais?

reply to post by Tentickles


Your a pretty smart cookie....I feel your a honest person. Your post are allways well put and have great research. So I am with you .... but also so because I can feel it comming. I think a lot of fellow ATS members can see and feel something comming down the pipe. I stoped watching TV back when the digital switch. This is my main source of info .

Long Live ATS.

s&f

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Good, I hope you travelled through my home town of Darke County Ohio... a booming place until the raliroads gave way to the highways... it's a dying place ever since then.... and now it's even worse...

Guess what... there are places which are going gangbusters right now... and it's not from bailout money... it's from good old fashioned American Ingenuity...

Some places will die off, others will take off... it's how the American Economy works and has for a couple hundred years...

Son, I respect your opinion, but I need no lecture on "how the American economy works".

I've been there and done that...IMHO, you are blinded by idealism, and that is okay...while you are young...but eventually reality will monkey-hammer you back into the real world...whether you want to recognize it or not.

My business is doing very well and I want to keep it that way...in order to run a business in this environment, you have to be able to asses the near future and make decisions based on what you find...even when that future seems grim..

I collect data from every independent ( ie..NOT THE BELOVED GOVERNMENT) source that I can find, then filter it down to the most likely outcome...I have done the math, I have done the studying, and I have experienced this economy first hand on a national scale...

Guess what?

We are in for a paradigm change....it's happening right in front of your eyes, but you refuse to see it, because of political idealism...this transcends politics...I'm NOT saying the world is ending...it will indeed continue, just not in the way that you hope it will...

I wish you the best of luck..

RB

[edit on 19-6-2009 by RolandBrichter]

Originally posted by Electro38
I live in NY, just about 30 minutes from Manhattan. I, nor anyone I know has seen any evidence of any economic trouble, at all.

This is strange because weren't we already having an economic crash?

Last summer we knew a couple of people who lost their jobs, one guy worked for DHL and the other for Bear Sterns. But they both quickly and seamlessly found other work.

Everyone we know has money, are still buying things and no one has lost their homes. Where was this crash? And now there's going to be another invisible economic crash?

Stop by my office in midtown. We are at 35% of our staff count from this time last year - over half of our office is vacant and we cannot find tenants to sublet to. We had one 3D design firm take some office space but that lasted 3mo and now they are downsizing and moving out. My department is on 4 day work weeks with 28% less pay than this time last year. Executives are at 35% pay cut, and all other staff are at 10 - 20% cuts.

You live a sheltered life and don't get out much. Our business has clients in the US but mostly in Asia and the Middle East too. All projects are on hold. In fact, gimme one of those jobs-a-plenty you have there... I've been looking only about a month but have had no leads yet.

Oh, and you might want to give my family in Detroit a call. They are looking for jobs too. Chemical engineers, mechanical engineers, IT and even skilled trade laborers. Got jobs for them? lol

I hope me and everybody I know are just in 'bad pockets' and all will recover soon. I would love for projects in Dubai to start up again so I can start getting paid my regular salary.

Did you know that for the first time ever landlords in Manhattan are leasing apartments with 1 month (or more) free rent, double-digit decrease in annual rent from previous year, and paid broker fees? What does that tell you?

EDIT:
Sure, as others have pointed out, the US has historically been resilient to economic downturns. The US is generally diversified in business and industry so if some sectors suffer due to bubble collapses, others thrive. The only problem I see here is the bubble collapsing is financial which will eventually impact all sectors. I hope that impact is buffered but my fear is that it will not be. I could be wrong but large economic collapses do not necessarily happen all at once. We see warning signs and are alert to what may be coming, and I hope it does not. I just see no rational argument to convince me that things will get better when none of the root problems have been fixed.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by nydsdan]

[edit on 19-6-2009 by nydsdan]

reply to post by getreadyalready


This is my first post, so if other people have already made these points, my apologies.

Responding to the NYer who thinks this recession is hype, listen up.

If you're 30 minutes away from NYC, I take it you either live in Westchester or Nassau County, where the majority of the bankster class lives? No offense (if you're not a bankster, I'm sorry), but there is indeed a recession/depression happening, if you know where to look.


I work at a large private university and they recently instituted a 3 year-salary freeze for staff, massive layoffs and a 30 percent pay-cut for faculty, just for starters. I can't count the number of times I've had to get in touch with someone in another department to complete a transaction, only to find out that person has been laid off. In my department, anyone who quits isn't being replaced, so I'm taking up more of the slack. I've already started job hunting and looking into going into the healthcare field as a second career. I figure I'll need a more useful trade than looking at spreadsheets. However, even working in healthcare is no guarantee of job security, since two local hospitals - St. John's and Mary Immaculate (where I used to work) recently shut down.

I live in a working class area of NYC, and here's what I see: small businesses are closing left and right. Houses for sale are falling into disrepair and being vandalized. Nobody is buying them since real estate prices are still too high. There's a condo development down the block from me that started construction 4 years ago, and it still isn't finished (maybe because sensible people think 400K for a 2 bedroom condo with no amenities is unrealistic?). Now people are just dumping their trash in the half-empty lot. At the local supermarket, grown men and women are bagging the groceries for tips. On Saturday mornings, there's a line that stretches down the block outside of the local church. Why? Every Saturday, they donate free groceries to the needy.

Panicking is non-productive, but so is denial. I'm not going to buy a gun and hide in the woods (a.k.a. Central Park) but I have taken precautions: cutting back on expenses, starting a vegetable garden on my terrace, storing food, and making friends with my neighbors because we're going to need each other when SHTF. Like-minded people need to stick together.

This economic crash was a long time coming, and frankly, it's a corrective for all the corruption and excess over the past 20 years. People's eyes are finally being opened. The money we THOUGHT we had was all an illusion. The easy availability of CREDIT and artificially inflated stock and real estate prices just masked what was really going on. Now that credit isn't so easy to obtain, people are finally realizing that their wealth was illusory. Now it's time to get back to basics. Real jobs. Real money. Government that actually WORKS for US!