Oldest Art in Americas Found on Mammoth Bone?

Source found here.

June 10, 2009—The Americas' oldest known artist may have been an Ice Age hunter in what is now Florida, according to an anthropologist who has examined a 13,000-year-old bone etching.

A few plugs in there for underwater archeology. Seems like a no brainer to me that we should be looking off the coasts underwater where the shorelines were during the last ice-age. We've always been a mostly coastal species.

they could have come across the bone long after the mammoth died.

just because the art is on the bone, does not mean they were corresponding to the same time era.

same thing, is if i went to the great wall of china, and wrote something on it

you can see that the Wall is extremely old, however my writing is brand new.

i am not saying that the bone / writing are separate in time, but IMO it is very likely that the hunter found the bone thousands of years Afterwards and wrote on it

the hunter could have simply found an entire skeleton, and drew the carving based on that skeleton's appearance

it would be silly to automatically assume he killed the mammoth himself or something - there is very little evidence to support that

it is a very interesting find, but it does not prove very much other than he was aware the bone itself corresponded to a mammoth (which he could have based off a full skeleton)

quote from the article

"The examinations revealed that the light etching is not recent, and that it was made a short time after the animal died, according to Purdy."

Yet they give no logic or reasoning as to how they determined this. I personally would love to know how you can look at writing and determine it's age.

I do not think it sounds very simple or accurate.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Let's say for the sake of argument that a Seminole Indian found the bone "thousands of years" after the mammoth died. Are you also implying a time frame after mammoths had gone the way of the dodo?

If so what exactly was that gent or ladies fram of reference for etching a mammoth? Old photos?

Assuming it was not a modern day etching (post industrial rev.) Like the one mentioned in the interior linked debunking story of a similar event from 1864.

-Edit: Dawned on me the dodo went the way of the mammoth...

[edit on 15/6/2009 by whiskeypoet]

The artifact is genuine, and they know that the bone was inscribed shortly after the animal died by the patina (surface coloration) and the depth of the marks on the bone. Old bone lying on the surface develops a different texture and inscribes differently.

It's a beautiful piece. I hope to see it in person this summer.

reply to post by Byrd


It is beautiful. I have always been moved by the perspective of ancient artists. They had such a talent for ratio, size and aspect. Where are all the lousy doodles and the practice sketches? *wink*

reply to post by whiskeypoet

The Seminole tribe was artificially created in the 1800s from Creeks, Cherokees, runaway slaves and other people.

Virtually all of modern Florida was under water until about 20,000 years ago when the last local ice age ended so it is not totally unlikely that they have found something extraordinary. The museum in Daytona has a really cool exhibit showing how water has receded and covered the peninsula for about a million years, check it out if you go over that way.

There are some cool maps on this site:

www.archbold-station.org...

reply to post by secretagent woooman


Thanks for educating me on the Seminole. What's worse is I went to junior high in Palm Beach.

Nothing worse than generalizing a culture. Thanks...

I'm not clear on Florida being under water during the ice age but not when it ended. Seems is would be the opposite?

Ice-Age Lower sea level, Post ice age higher sea level? Yes?

reply to post by whiskeypoet

Oh god, how did you survive down there? I went through there twice last summer and it was so hot and wet it felt like a sponge in a microwave, I can tolerate most climates without complaint but that was too much! I don't know which was worse, Miami or DC. Now I know what the term "hot as hell" really means!

Yes, the state dried up during the Ice Age, it was underwater for most of the last 700,000 years.

Speaking of Indians, here is one to crack you up. I almost got to see the Village People at Harrah's Casino on the Cherokee reservation a few years back....that is some sight to behold!

reply to post by secretagent woooman


It was hot and I was surrounded by old people. Now I'm always cold and I am old. But I'll take So-Cal or Arizona over the humidity any day.

You make the village people sound like an opportunity as opposed to a thing to be avoided

Now I'm wondering what other artifacts the mammoth art contemporary to in Florida. I guess I'll be back after more research.

Originally posted by Byrd
The artifact is genuine, and they know that the bone was inscribed shortly after the animal died by the patina (surface coloration) and the depth of the marks on the bone. Old bone lying on the surface develops a different texture and inscribes differently.

It's a beautiful piece. I hope to see it in person this summer.

thank you Byrd

So you are saying that you can determine the age of a writing by it's coloration and physical appearance of the marking itself?

Is this based on erosion or something?

I would really like to look further into this, if you have any links or keywords that you think I should research I would greatly appreciate it because I would love to learn more about this.

It does seem really tricky though.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I think what byrd is referring to is that the level of patina on the bone is uniform over the whole piece showing that the carving was done shortly after the animal died.

Patina forms after years of being exposed to the air producing a basic carbonate that forms a uniform layer over the surface. Had the bone been inscribed say hundreds or thousands of years post mortem, the patina in the inscriptions would be noticeably reduced in comparison to the surrounding area.